Danioover9000

The apolitical label.

48 posts in this topic

@zurew

33 minutes ago, zurew said:

The question is, given a high level awareness  (in this context this means, that you can reflect and self reflect, and can feel and see the suffering of others, and how one's actions impact the other parts of the world and seeing that you as an invidivudal, you are not really just an individual, you are not just part of your country, but you are the citizen of Earth and your country couldn't really live or thrive without all the other parts)   which valuesystem should we use, and why?

This is a fair point, but there are ways to make it work, this can't be an excuse why not to be a globalist and care about more and more things. If we see ourselves from a globalist standpoint, we can get a more accurate image of whats happening, what affects what, and paradoxically, with globalism you can have the ablility to make the biggest progress and the ability to solve really complex and hard problems. You can't solve complex and hard problems when you have rivalrous dynamics between multiple nations (where a country's  ability to survive or to thrive is based on fucking you over, scamming you, stealing from you, or manipulating you to get what it want and to survive as a little finite self [or in this case nation], while not recognizing that in the long run, fucking any country or part over will come back and bite back in the ass). 

On the other hand, if we have globalism, thats when we can have real agency to try to solve global problems. There is a reason why nowadays we talk  more and more about global problems not local problems. The very reason why we have global problems, is because everyone is focused on the parts and not the whole. If you only need to care about the local and not the global, then even if you had the ability to fix things or to solve one part of a global problem you won't do it, unless you will be incentivised to do so using low consciousness tools( either via forcing you to do or manipulating you --> so low consciousness tools have to be used and you won't act unless it directly affects your country).

We need to recognise and be okay with the fact, that all the finite parts are interconnected and each and every part affects all the other. 

You don't need to change the globe yourself, thats a wrong way to view it. If you are a roof builder and you only good at building and reparing roofs, you wouldn't say that just because that person or that team can't build a whole house they shouldn't build or repair roofs. 

 

The point is to act on things that you can directly influence, while keeping in mind how your local actions affects the global. 

   This is a good and thoughtful post to me, it reminds me that I'm still a bit selfish, and despite my life experiences I've had travelling the world and meeting new people, there's a lot still left to the world than here, and that many systems, from small to big, exist and interact in many ways.

   What are your thoughts about temporarily banning and labelling those users as 'apolitical'? Is there a better alternative?

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1 minute ago, Danioover9000 said:

What are your thoughts about temporarily banning and labelling those users as 'apolitical'? Is there a better alternative?

I think one relevant question here is that ,what are we trying to achieve by banning or label people as 'apolitical'. I don't think the labeling part has much of a usage, but the banning part could be used if the standards are applied and set well.

Honestly, if i would have total control over this forum, i wouldn't ban based on differing views, i would rather ban bad faith and high level of dismissiveness. I would also encourage people to use occam's razor when it comes to making sense of political issues and maybe i would create a subforum where more speculation is allowed.

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@zurew

1 hour ago, zurew said:

I think one relevant question here is that ,what are we trying to achieve by banning or label people as 'apolitical'. I don't think the labeling part has much of a usage, but the banning part could be used if the standards are applied and set well.

Honestly, if i would have total control over this forum, i wouldn't ban based on differing views, i would rather ban bad faith and high level of dismissiveness. I would also encourage people to use occam's razor when it comes to making sense of political issues and maybe i would create a subforum where more speculation is allowed.

   I understand that we are banning temporarily users and ascribing the label 'apolitical' as a warning to other users not to engage with what's considered 'toxic' behavior in this forum. The main issue though, is that there's nothing inherent  to the meaning of 'apolitical' that suggests you are toxic and should be temporarily banned from the sub forum. We are literally ascribing meanings of 'toxic' and 'conspiratorial' to 'apolitical' when no such meanings had existed. We are basically capping at 'apolitical' so hard, and doing this word a disservice in this community.

   For example, if you asked me a political question, I would give an apolitical answer that is at stage yellow, and run through various answers addressing it at different cognitive patterns, morals, personalities, life experiences and different states, describe you how relevant systems would get effected and so on. For something specific, like my political views of animal welfare, my apolitical take would be: "I look after my home pet, I think that if you cared about animals, that's great. I remember riding a horse, and giving it an apple. I also like ice scream, I have a really good animal drawing, I find them cute.", and so on, you know, apolitical statements that are not charged for or against, like, common sense responses from those who either don't care about politics, are not caught in this narrative and political and ideological warfare! What I consider not an apolitical answer to animal welfare would be like: "Well, animals raised in the farms are all right, nothing to worry about, and they are looked after" kind of a stage blue/orange denial and distortion response, and a stage green response would be like: "We gotta free the cows! They are abusing the animals! They are making them sick! they are deforesting the tree! Go fund the anti farm movement! #endanimalcruelty!", you know, a very strong activist type of answers. "Bootstrap yourself, you are lazy. the earth is round." stage blue/orange response to an economic issue and common sense world frame. "Everyone struggling needs welfare, for all, no matter what you are. The earth is flat. screw the establishment.", stage green replies to an economic issue, and what the world could be, flat, although that modal is mostly stage purple/blue. What I'm getting at with these inorganized examples of different value systems, is that 'apolitical' is like a chill and cool person to me, whose non-partisan and outside the box thinking, that's not too charged at either extremes. I'm sorry, but labelling a person as 'apolitical' is not invoking an image of a radicalized MAGA QuAnnon person, it's manifesting a cool, calm, cucumber like person, just chill, you know?

   I think we either need a better label, or get rid of this labelling system. Otherwise, someone smarter and more powerful than me, is gonna point out how ridiculous you look by misidentifying a person under the label 'apolitical'.

Edited by Danioover9000

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@zurew

   It's like if I labelled you as 'blue', is that accurate to you? And do you think it as the literal meaning of 'blue', and other words or representations of reality that match the qualia of 'blue'? Feels bad? Now, what if I started applying 'blue' to 100 and more users? And I'm doing this thinking they would think green and a dinosaur, and an ice scream, and stop wanting cars and cookies instead?

   Can you feel the inaccuracy of what I'm describing? What missing?

   That's what I'm getting at.

Edited by Danioover9000

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10 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

   I understand that we are banning temporarily users and ascribing the label 'apolitical' as a warning to other users not to engage with what's considered 'toxic' behavior in this forum.

 Can you feel the inaccuracy of what I'm describing? What missing?

I personally think the labeling part isn't necessary and users could be informed about what is allowed to do and what is not through the guidelines. If they read it,then they will know what they are not allowed to do and i think that would be one of the easiest way to "solve" this confusion issue.

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@zurew

9 hours ago, zurew said:

I personally think the labeling part isn't necessary and users could be informed about what is allowed to do and what is not through the guidelines. If they read it,then they will know what they are not allowed to do and i think that would be one of the easiest way to "solve" this confusion issue.

   I agree, that if all users read and follow the guidelines, then we don't need a labelling system or a warning system. However, it's unrealistic, as some users still bend and sometimes break guidelines, so those systems must be enforced to some degree.

   So, taking into account some users will write things that are closer in meaning to 'toxic', we therefore arrive, again, to the main issue: Is it justified to label 'apolitical', when it's definitions don't contain definitions of 'toxic'? Also, do we need to make whatever label we decide, visible to other users?

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26 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

However, it's unrealistic, as some users still bend and sometimes break guidelines, so those systems must be enforced to some degree.

I think this is not that big of a problem. If they don't read the guidelines they will be forced to read it after they will be temporarily banned from this section of the forum or after they get a warning point. People will learn from their mistakes.

Also, if people don't read the guidelines why would they care about a label?

Edited by zurew

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@zurew

40 minutes ago, zurew said:

I think this is not that big of a problem. If they don't read the guidelines they will be forced to read it after they will be temporarily banned from this section of the forum or after they get a warning point. People will learn from their mistakes.

Also, if people don't read the guidelines why would they care about a label?

   Well, I am guessing they would care, if they love their profile pic or what have you. I mean, this happened, outside this context, to a few gamers that have cheated, the devs would have their MMORPG character wear a traffic cone on their head that says "Stupid", and that feature stays with them by the way.

   Is the label temporary or permanent? What would be a better label to you, other than 'apolitical'?

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