Question about podcast

[Thought Art]

Okay, so at 3:43 in the interview, Leo has just talked prior about going to fortune tellers/ reiki healers. He goes to 5 different healers, each who give him different explanation as to why he is having the problems he is having. Then he spent four hours with a dark energy healer.

He went to these 6 individuals with no results and yet he doesn't consider them delusional, only that they are in different realities. Sure they live in different realities.

Leo also went to many doctors in the western model to heal his stomach issues and none of that works. Yet, we don't consider doctors delusional.

If I went to 5 western medical specialist about my stomach issue and they all have me different reasons I would consider them to have different expert opinions, or some to be wrong or some to be right. But, I wouldn't consider them delusional as I would if I went to different mystics and had different opinions.

This whole truth thing is very challenging. 

I am personally of the opinion that healing energy work and things like reiki, Qigong, yoga, breath work, chanting, listening to music, tuning forks etc have a positive affect on aspects of the body. These practices promote health, relaxation and the spiritual aesthetic needs of humans. Yet, they are not the same of getting a vaccine or something like that. 

I guess, whether its western medicine, traditional Chinese medicine, mysticism, science etc that we as humans embody so many aspects of reality that each of these schools of thought address different aspects of the human experience. But, we need to be honest and clear with ourselves about the validity or intent behind using these professionals. There should be no bias given to one or the other, except in that we are being intelligent in our approach and usage of these schools. 

It's not black and white as far as I can tell. Its not like, western science good mysticism bad. There is truth and falsehood and varying degrees of effectiveness strung out through all domains of human existence. 

I have had deep mystical experiences under the care of a tantric priestess while at a sexual shamanic online festival. But, I would like more to confirm it.

For example, I know first hand that Qigong is real as I practice it everyday and have first hand experience of Qi energy and am intuiting my abilities in the next 20 years. 

Yet, someone else could just be some asshole who took too many mushrooms and now thinks he is an alien who is a light worker who has to tell heal the world. He may think he can cure cancer, while all I am doing as a Qigong teacher is helping people to stretch and circulate their life for energy better. Two seemingly woo woo things to most people yet I think Qigong has validity, while the alien light-worker is smoking something.

Like, the field of nutrition: So many different opinions. Are most nutritionist completely deluded in the same way, or similar ways as a dark energy healer who sees demons and energies that don't exist?

 

I am really only interested in what is true so I can build a business that helps people and is based in truth. Listening to Leo's explainations about his energy healing and that he doesn't consider them delusional I felt like he was in self deception territory. 

If I went to a doctor who was a quake, not follower professional protocol which was leading to chronic deaths and spreading of disease we wouldn't say he was just living in a different reality. People may live in different realities in their mind, which in some context is fine imo when it comes to aesthetic and spiritual experience. But, when it comes to healing and domains of life that pertain to healing we need the tool to actually address and fix the problem.

An artist's cognition may be allow for more aesthetic loosey goosie ness, but surely healing must actually work or it's a scam and self deception, or simply not the right tool for the job. 

If I went to an energy healer who made bold claims about the results I would be upset if I didn't have results.

I remember someone on the forum a few weeks ago who was claiming to have healing powers and was 'healing people' on the forum. Which he wasn't he was full of shit and Leo banned him. So, is this medicine actually poison and snake oil? Is this spiritual healer actually a quake and self confused? What are their motivations? Proof? Reasons? Results?

I am just noting here that every single external authority I come across has varying degrees of accuracy. I need to be able to take actualized.orgs model as a subset of a larger model I am creating. There is too much risk for Leos self deceptions here. I don't think he is wrong about infinity, and I love his passion and am very grateful for the immense amount of wisdom. But, I just need to always realized I can be self deceived and that I likely am. And, therefore, I cannot gauge accurately the self deception of another.

So he question is: When it comes to healing, is it not important that the act of healing actually creates a tangible result in person. If not, what are the implications of the method? Was it the wrong method for the problem? was it a pseudo claim and the person was a scam artists or a self deceived hack? How do I reconcile that some modern medical practices are limited and problematic, while many work.... The same seems true of spiritual practices such as journaling, meditation, body scans, visualization, some energy work practices, Qigong, yoga, breathwork, pschedelics etc

What is the difference between Aesthetic cause-play and science? or, Art and science? They both exist, but have different relative applications and are not mutually exclusive. 

Honestly, Arcadefire is right in their song "Powerout" -"Growing up in some strange storm... Nobodies Cold nobodies Warm.. So I went out into the night... I went out to find some light (to pick a fight with anyone)"

I will absorb all this material and I will transcend falsehood and delusion more and more. I sense Leo may have a high degree of accuracy. But, I am making sure I continue to go meta beyond him and ground myself in something that is both spiritually aesthetic, practical and that is true and works. 

Edited September 8, 2021 by Thought Art