Working With The Self-image

[Bruno]

I have a dilema.

I am afraid, that if I enter this path for melting the self-image, I will also melt my motivations and my desires.

Isn't the desire for sex motivated by the ego ?

Isn't the passion for my career motivated by the ego ?

Please, try to really understand what I am trying to say here, read it carefully. I'm not just talking about obviously boasting and doing things to aggrandize my self-image, or getting a career that proves to myself that I am cool. I'm talking about the things that I really like to do, the things I do when I have high self-esteem, the way I behave, the way I feel run by desires and passions, aren't those desires and passions run by the ego ?

Just answer to this post if you have made any amount of progress in this specific area of working with the ego.

@Leo Gura

[Bruno]

A better way to describe it is by asking : Does Self-Expressions comes from the ego ? is it healthy ?

[Mal]

23 hours ago, Bruno said:

A better way to describe it is by asking : Does Self-Expressions comes from the ego ? is it healthy ?

Hi Bruno, 

Your "ego" is just the part of you that is programming.  The part of you that is an accumulation of suggestions of other influences. It's your "conditioned" mind.  

It is not the real part of you.  

The real part of you expresses itself, but in a different way from the ego.  In a way that is authentic and present.

Sex can be motivated by the eog, for sure.  But sex can also be an expression of the real part of you.  

You will know the difference when you function from the real you.

Again, this is something that cannot be explained (for obvious reasons) you must actually do the work and find out for yourself. SELF realization.  It has to come from you, otherwise it's just more ego and suggestion.

[Bruno]

On 10/07/2016 at 9:21 PM, Mal said:

You will know the difference when you function from the real you.

I did.

Thank you very much.

[Emerald]

On 7/9/2016 at 8:06 PM, Bruno said:

I have a dilema.

I am afraid, that if I enter this path for melting the self-image, I will also melt my motivations and my desires.

Isn't the desire for sex motivated by the ego ?

Isn't the passion for my career motivated by the ego ?

Please, try to really understand what I am trying to say here, read it carefully. I'm not just talking about obviously boasting and doing things to aggrandize my self-image, or getting a career that proves to myself that I am cool. I'm talking about the things that I really like to do, the things I do when I have high self-esteem, the way I behave, the way I feel run by desires and passions, aren't those desires and passions run by the ego ?

Just answer to this post if you have made any amount of progress in this specific area of working with the ego.

@Leo Gura

I had two "enlightenment experiences" when I was 20. Prior to that, my main objective in life was to grow myself in order to both self-actualize and pursue my career. I wanted to add value to my identity, which I thought would bring me fulfillment. When the second experience happened, I realized that this adornment of self and trying to add value to myself was what was keeping me from the profound sanity and happiness that was inherent to these experiences. The thing that I was doing to fulfill myself was sending me in the opposite direction of fulfillment.

Prior to those experiences, life was simple. Anything that added value to my self-concept and brought me closer to success, was good and worth pursuing. Anything that took away value from my self concepts and kept me from success, was bad and not worth pursuing. After that experience, I felt conflicted no matter which direction that I went in. I either felt bad that I was pursuing success or bad that I wasn't pursuing success. Then sometimes, I'd feel proud of myself or good about an accomplishment, only to quickly remind myself that this was the reason why I'm suffering which made me feel bad. So, I spend years stagnating, pulling my punches, not growing myself, and trying to be a non-person. It was hell.

But this came from lack of understanding and lack of awareness. My experiences were catalyzed artificially through use of an entheogen. So, it temporarily enabled me to extend my awareness into things that I would normally resist and make myself unconscious to. So, the insight that my identity and goals were keeping me from happiness, became abstract once I was back to my normal awareness level. I wasn't wise enough to understand it yet.

So, my recommendation is to continue growing yourself without any resistance. Let the ego do what it does. If you're able to allow anything that comes up and shine your awareness on it, your internal wisdom will let you know what is worth pursuing and what is not. I have come to the conclusion that some of my goals that I had were inauthentic but other goals that I have are authentic. It's just radical open-ness and awareness that allows you to see what's right to pursue. Never force yourself to quit pursuing anything that you're passionate about... but be mindful and aware of your internal state and motivations as you pursue it.

Edited July 11, 2016 by Emerald Wilkins

[Mal]

6 hours ago, Bruno said:

I did.

Thank you very much.

You're not about to get rid of your ego anytime soon. 

[Bruno]

On 11/07/2016 at 2:03 PM, Piotr said:

you can be neurotic for a while and have some ego-serving patterns of behavior

This is interesting, when my behaviors are not ego-serving, who/what are they serving ?

Because I have had this doubt on my mind for a while, when we talk about "the ego" and we say that it is "who we think we are", that includes everything right ? but it seems like it just includes the petty and low consciousness stuff, or just the "lower-self"

it seems like the ego is just a part of ourselves, an entity that lives in... we... lives in the "I".

I'm going to start a post about that actually...

On 11/07/2016 at 2:03 PM, Piotr said:

Shinzen Young talks even of going to see a psychoterapist after several enlightenment experiences to correct some of his neurosis if I recall correctly.

Isn't enlightenment ultimately an elimination of all neurosis ?

On 11/07/2016 at 8:39 PM, Mal said:

You're not about to get rid of your ego anytime soon. 

I didn't say I got enlightened. I said I was able to see the difference between an action that comes from the "ego" and an action that comes from the "authentic self" although I still have a lot of doubts in relation to the concept of the ego and the concept of the authentic self. What I'm trying to say here is that I noticed two actions taken by me that came from "different sources", and one being "more shallow" than the other. But I might be deceiving myself.

[Bruno]

On 11/07/2016 at 8:02 PM, Emerald Wilkins said:

be mindful and aware of your internal state and motivations as you pursue it.

Thank you very much. That's good advice.

[Mal]

@Bruno

Maybe just see what happens?

What I'm hearing is that you're not really interested in enlightenment.  So don't bother with it.

Continue with conventional life, sex, career, whatever your desires are telling you to do right now.

This enlightenment stuff is for those who have truly had enough of being a donkey for society.

 

 

[Bruno]

On 15/07/2016 at 5:01 PM, Piotr said:

but ultimately what makes them truly authentic is when they are an end in themselves.

That's interesting, I've never thought about it this way.

On 15/07/2016 at 7:22 PM, Mal said:

This enlightenment stuff is for those who have truly had enough of being a donkey for society.

Don't you think that's a pretty self-righteous thought ?

[Mal]

2 minutes ago, Bruno said:

Don't you think that's a pretty self-righteous thought ?

@Bruno 

Is it? Ok Bruno, thanks for informing me that it's self righteous. 

I'm glad you're around to help me with my path of becoming less self righteous

Thank you.

Mal

 

[Bruno]

2 minutes ago, Mal said:

@Bruno 

Is it? Ok Bruno, thanks for informing me that it's self righteous. 

I'm glad you're around to help me with my path of becoming less self righteous

Thank you.

Mal

 

Don't you think that's a pretty defensive and emotional response ?

[Mal]

Just now, Bruno said:

Don't you think that's a pretty defensive and emotional response ?

Yes it is defensive and emotional. Thanks.

And what's your reason for pointing out the nature of my comments?

Only you can answer that, because you know yourself better than I do

 

[Mal]

@Bruno

Bruno,

Where did you get the idea that people wouldn't get emotional and defensive in response to being attacked?

 

[Bruno]

2 minutes ago, Mal said:

Yes it is defensive and emotional. Thanks.

And what's your reason for pointing out the nature of my comments?

Only you can answer that, because you know yourself better than I do

 

Trying to defend myself because in some way I felt attacked by your comment...

[Bruno]

5 minutes ago, Mal said:

@Bruno

Bruno,

Where did you get the idea that people wouldn't get emotional and defensive in response to being attacked?

 

Well, that's the goal.

[Mal]

26 minutes ago, Bruno said:

 

Don't you think that's a pretty self-righteous thought ?

Because I said were programmed to be donkeys for society?

How is this an attack? It's the truth. 

But what I was attempting to do was point out that if you're worried about losing your social conditioning then you cannot be interested in enlightenment.

I see it a lot here, people dabbling with these ideas.  Enlightenment is the end of the road, I've personally had enough of societies lies and I want the truth. 

This is just my truth. It's not absolute truth, it's my process.

[Mal]

1 minute ago, Bruno said:

Well, that's the goal.

Is it?

Even if it was, you think I'm supposed to embody the goal right now?

My goal is equanimity with what is.  Now, if what is means emotional and defensive, then that's what is.

I'm not interested in showing you I've reached the imaginary goal, or your imaginary goal of control over my experience.

But what is happening right now is I have more tollerance with my experience. So I won't hold this against you. 

That's MY goal..

[Bruno]

1 minute ago, Mal said:

Because I said were programmed to be donkeys for society?

How is this an attack? It's the truth. 

But what I was attempting to do was point out that if you're worried about losing your social conditioning then you cannot be interested in enlightenment.

I see it a lot here, people dabbling with these ideas.  Enlightenment is the end of the road, I've personally had enough of societies lies and I want the truth. 

This is just my truth. It's not absolute truth, it's my process.

The thing is that I don't want to pursue enlightenment right now, but the way I wrote my post and the place I posted it made it seem like I did.

I think I've misunderstood the goal of Leo's video here.

[Mal]

@Bruno

I don't know what the content of his video is, so I cannot comment