Vagueness

[Finn]

There's a bunch of questions out there like "what would you do if money was not an issue" and "what would you do if you had no fears" that are supposed to help with finding out life purpose. The problem I run into is I find them so vague and open-ended that I completely shut down. I draw a blank for half an hour and then get so fed up with the fact I can't figure it out that it just goes downhill from there.

I can't imagine what that's like either. How am I supposed to know what it's like to not have money be an issue for instance?

Lastly, I don't really have a life, so I really have no sense of what I would like or do like. And because I can't sense what I would like, I don't try anything, because again it's too vague. Too much risk, which isn't great for the way I view myself either.

How do I deconstruct these types of questions to make them work for me?

[RichardY]

@FinnDo you have any values to orientate yourself?

What would you do if money was not an issue?     When is money not an issue? I guess when you are already rich and content enough that any needs are satiated. You can be a peasant or a king, doesn't matter.

Orientation. Throw darts at a map, then go there in real life? Ouija board? Talk to as many different people as possible? almost completely randomly, cold approach. 

Too much risk. What are you risking or are willing to Risk? Are there any benefits to be gained or are you risking something you'd be better off without.

 

[Finn]

4 minutes ago, RichardY said:

Do you have any values to orientate yourself?

I am going through the life purpose course and I have those 10 values you need to establish. When I read them now, they don't feel right so I have to redo it, but to give an idea of the ones that do feel right: Joy, passion, creativity, society, calm, excellence would be important to me.

8 minutes ago, RichardY said:

When is money not an issue? I guess when you are already rich and content enough that any needs are satiated. You can be a peasant or a king, doesn't matter.

I think it was meant as a hypothetical to establish what I'd do if I'd be able to make any investment into having a good future. But indeed, I have no material shortages at the moment, but that hasn't resolved my misery.

10 minutes ago, RichardY said:

Almost completely randomly, cold approach. 

How do I deal with the resistance to that idea? Does that indicate I don't care enough?

11 minutes ago, RichardY said:

What are you risking or are willing to Risk? Are there any benefits to be gained or are you risking something you'd be better off without.

No one wants to be miserable all their life, but you can't really shoot a target if you don't know it's your target.

[RichardY]

@Finn 

Values:  "Joy, passion, creativity, society, calm, excellence." None of those are my values, but I could see how they could be for a particular sort of person. What about working on a cruise ship or as a tour guide? I'm currently trying to hammer through my values, made a list of them on excel, went through a few lists on the Internet. 

Money: "What would you do if money was not an issue?"  I wouldn't treat it as a hypothetical question, meditate deeply on it, to a Billionaire they probably already have an answer that satisfies them, it may not be your answer. The answer I gave was pretty superficial, try to answer, doesn't matter if it's not perfect. Others on the forum may have more through and eloquent answers.

Cold Approach: "How do I deal with the resistance to that idea? Does that indicate I don't care enough?" Even resistance is caring. I know that through volunteering whilst backpacking I became more at ease talking to different people. More important perhaps is the context, it's not really random as such, when talking to strangers. Strangely I have found that I'm often able to predict sometimes what people are going to say, like some weird unconscious connection in person, even works in foreign languages and sometimes things seemingly completely unrelated.

Misery: "No one wants to be miserable all their life,..." Don't be so sure. From a biological perspective, it doesn't matter much if a person is miserable or not what matters is if they reproduce. Ever see the movie "Drag me to Hell"? A part from all the demon lore, deep down the main protagonist may have wanted to be miserable, depends how you read it. It is possible to be comfortable and miserable.

Edited September 2, 2017 by RichardY

[Finn]

49 minutes ago, RichardY said:

What about working on a cruise ship or as a tour guide?

That I would not care for. It'd kill me with anxiety as well as monotony, which is a strange combination because monotony tends to be closely related to predictable.

51 minutes ago, RichardY said:

I wouldn't treat it as a hypothetical question, meditate deeply on it

I would, but it's not the reality of my life. It's a hypothetical for anyone without 7 figures in their bank account.

53 minutes ago, RichardY said:

[R]esistance is caring.

I care enough to resist it. That makes sense. Wouldn't do that if I were indifferent to it.

55 minutes ago, RichardY said:

It is possible to be comfortable and miserable.

Being comfortable leads to misery. That's what I'm experiencing at least. But the misery isn't greater than the anxiety involved with expansion. Otherwise I'd just do whatever to get out, right?

I don't really see how this ties in with clarifying very open-ended questions such as "what are you really good at" or "what do you care about most" or "what does your soul yearn for".

[Erlend K]

Not every exercise is going to work for everyone. If an exercise dosn't resonate with you, just skip it and do something else. 

[Finn]

It's in the life purpose course, so I kinda have to. I think. Do I? Am I being too rigid again? >.>

[RichardY]

@Finn

Career("Wheeled Vehicle"): "That I would not care for. It'd kill me with anxiety as well as monotony, which is a strange combination because monotony tends to be closely related to predictable."

If you say so. Though there was the Italian PM or President Silvio Berlusconi, which I read about who worked on a cruise ship. I guess it depends on what you do and how things are arranged now, whether it' waiting tables, language courses, or being a musician. Do you have any ideas?

Finance("Finesse", an end): "I would, but it's not the reality of my life. It's a hypothetical for anyone without 7 figures in their bank account."

A large part of the world has 7 figures in their bank account, or at least under their mattress, in their attic... Money: Momentary value. Currency: "current" liquid value. At the least, what you think about money determines a lot about what you may do in the moment. Especially if you acquire much, can see celebrities often devastated after acquiring money and not handling it and themselves well.  

Anxiety "Being comfortable leads to misery. That's what I'm experiencing at least. But the misery isn't greater than the anxiety involved with expansion. Otherwise I'd just do whatever to get out, right?"

Expansion.... or change? Anxiety I guess is more of a push factor than a pull factor, if your anxiety isn't going to increase, nothing to worry about right??? Perhaps you should explore your anxiety more, which would be a more existential approach(Perhaps), or go more into misery and comfort which maybe far more difficult or not (maybe) and stoical in nature.

Forged or Cast "I don't really see how this ties in with clarifying very open-ended questions such as "what are you really good at" or "what do you care about most" or "what does your soul yearn for".

I think because you need some baseline values to orientate yourself in the world ( You can build a dwelling without a foundation, but is it a good idea?), one thing to bare in mind is do you really value something or just say you do? A person imo is stronger if they are forged, rather than cast. All 3 additional questions, as you said are open and would require additional threads to even attempt to explore and answer in any detail. 

 

 

 

[Finn]

59 minutes ago, RichardY said:

I guess it depends on what you do and how things are arranged now, whether it' waiting tables, language courses, or being a musician.

Oh, I see. I perceived working on a ship as this monolithic profession of serving people on a vessel, rather than identifying the individual professions that are on there. I can't dissect that sort of stuff, which is another reason I get lost when it comes to abstraction or vagueness.

1 hour ago, RichardY said:

At the least, what you think about money determines a lot about what you may do in the moment.

Especially if you're dependent on the state like I am.

1 hour ago, RichardY said:

Perhaps you should explore your anxiety more, which would be a more existential approach(Perhaps), or go more into misery and comfort which maybe far more difficult or not (maybe) and stoical in nature.

The latter hasn't helped me in the past. Got me suicidal, while still not being able to change anything. The only reason that decreased was through constant consumption of media to basically numb me through distraction. The media consumption hasn't gone down.

1 hour ago, RichardY said:

I think because you need some baseline values to orientate yourself in the world ( You can build a dwelling without a foundation, but is it a good idea?), one thing to bare in mind is do you really value something or just say you do? A person imo is stronger if they are forged, rather than cast. All 3 additional questions, as you said are open and would require additional threads to even attempt to explore and answer in any detail. 

I picked the values that I picked when it was required of me to do so (life purpose course, essentially step 1), while at the same time being apathetic and clueless of what I even liked to do, because I don't really do anything. I'm basically perpetually bored and fill the void with useless information. I'm quite severely detached. I don't know myself at all, because self-knowledge is feeling-based and feelings are vague and therefore hard to understand and deconstruct. It's probably as close as I'm gonna get to "my values", as much as it doesn't feel correct, because what else can it be? It's not beauty, it's not adventure. And the ones that aren't definitely not it are too close to "my values" to distinguish them from one another.

[RichardY]

@Finn

Dependence: I was going to say if you live in the USA (help with flood relief, though the USA is massive), but you're in Europe as I am." The grass is definitely greener in other western continents, in many ways. Who isn't dependent on the State in Europe? Probably like a tiny fraction of the whole. You have a large, flower industry in Holland right... in fact the area I live in the UK is actually called South Holland after the region in the Netherlands. Merchants generally do very well, but you have to have your own contacts. What's it like for work in the Netherlands in general?

Tie yourself(or be tied) to the mast(Odysseus or Ulysses): The Sirens call. Yes being drugged by media is not generally a good thing, in the moment is all well and good (or is it?) I think the trick is to be able to expose yourself to things that maybe beneficial or cut your ties completely. Can't live by the sirens for long, drown in the unconscious so to speak.

Limits: I wouldn't say the life purpose course "requires" you to do X, remember you own, your copy and not the other way round, but presumably you made a commitment in a way. Don't be bored, if you're bored you are limiting yourself. "If you're are bored, it means you are boring, it means you have a limiting mind " John Taylor Gato. (Paraphrased, think engagement) Feelings "might" point you in a positive direction, but do you really embody your values. You may find many are contradictory and evil to certain people and groups, very hard to avoid or embrace/accept. There are darksides to values(Jung would call it the Shadow), but not necessarily evil. Calm(JEDI) and Passion(SITH), generally conflict.

[Finn]

2 hours ago, RichardY said:

Who isn't dependent on the State in Europe?

If you're gonna be technical, everyone is dependent on the state for protection against foreign and domestic threats. But as long as you have a job, financially you generally aren't dependent on the state in that regard.

2 hours ago, RichardY said:

What's it like for work in the Netherlands in general?

No idea. I've only worked a month in my life as a mailman. I do know it's a service based economy mostly.

2 hours ago, RichardY said:

The Sirens call. Yes being drugged by media is not generally a good thing, in the moment is all well and good (or is it?) I think the trick is to be able to expose yourself to things that maybe beneficial or cut your ties completely. Can't live by the sirens for long, drown in the unconscious so to speak.

I have no idea what you're trying to say here.

2 hours ago, RichardY said:

Don't be bored, if you're bored you are limiting yourself.

I've been bored my whole life. The only times I'm not is when someone else tells me what to do. I have zero autonomy basically.

2 hours ago, RichardY said:

Feelings "might" point you in a positive direction, but do you really embody your values. You may find many are contradictory and evil to certain people and groups, very hard to avoid or embrace/accept. There are darksides to values(Jung would call it the Shadow), but not necessarily evil.

This I don't understand either.