Q About The Relationship Between Body-mind And Awareness

[wingsofwax]

Eckhart Tolle seems to say that true inspiration and exceptional thoughts come from the higher self and not the body-mind. He also claims that his teachings do not come from "him" (his body-mind), but from his higher self. 

However, other teachers seem  to say that there is no rational thought or memory in awareness, which I assume would make that impossible. According to these teachers, thoughts are made of consciousness, but it seems that it's a one-way street, where thoughts appear in awareness, but awareness does not cause thoughts.

So how does awareness "connect" with the mind, if at all? Can awareness "cause" thoughts?

Basically, I am asking - what is the relationship between the mind and awareness?

 

 

 

 

[Leo Gura]

Just replace your concept of "physical reality" with emptiness/awareness, and there you have it.

Everything happens spontaneously. By magic. That's why it's called mysticism. You're gonna have to throw out your notions of linear, Newtonian causality.

Mind is a concept within awareness.

[wingsofwax]

Thank you, Leo.

Okay, so ... matter is non-existent; there is only consciousness.  There is no real distinction between body-mind and awareness. This makes the question of "where" thoughts come from pointless.

It still seems to me that Tolle is making that distinction, but maybe I am reading him wrong.

I'd like to see some more thoughts on this. Thank you.

 

 

[Leo Gura]

@wingsofwax Creative intelligence is baked into existence itself. It doesn't just come from rational thought. That's what Tolle means.

Tolle is referring to INSIGHT.

[Ananta]

@wingsofwax I'm going to copy/paste an answer a Vedanta teacher gave to a seeker. I'm not going to put the question as it doesn't relate, however the answer seems to apply to your question . It is long (very sorry), but read it carefully and see if you can "assimilate" what he's saying. Btw, his name is Ted Schmidt. His site is Nevernotpresent.com

 

"You don’t have to identity with awareness, because awareness is not something other than you. Presently, avidya, ignorance, is causing you to identify with the mind-body-sense complex and, thus, you take yourself to be the apparent individual you seem to be. But actually the person you think you are, complete with all his associated subtle phenomena (i.e. sensations, emotions, and cognitions) is nothing more than an object appearing within the scope of your being just like any other object.

 

Moreover, the truth is that you are already experiencing yourself all the time, for the nature of reality is non-dual and, thus, there is nothing other than yourself to experience. You, awareness, are not only the “field” in which all objects appear, but also the “substanceless substance” of which all objects are made. The closest analogy is a hologram, which is both composed of light and appears within a “field” of light.

 

That said, you cannot experience yourself because you, pure awareness, have no attributes and, thus, have no boundaries or edges by which you can be distinguished from anything else. In terms of our analogy of a hologram, where does the light end? Though the holographic image as which the light appears can be identified, is there any actual difference between the light of the image and the light “surrounding” it? Or, in terms of another analogy, where does the wave end and the water begin?

 

It is in this sense that you cannot experience yourself. Though the holographic image is light, light is not defined in terms of that particular hologram; though the wave is water, water is not defined in terms of the wave. In other words, light does not always appear as a particular holographic image and water does not always appear as a wave. So, though the hologram is dependent on the light and the wave on the water, light is not dependent on any particular hologram and water does not depend on its appearance as a wave. Just so, though all objects are nothing other than you, awareness, you, awareness, are not definable in terms of any one object—or, for that matter, even the collective of all objects. Whether objects appear or do not appear, you, awareness, always are.

 

In this regard, perhaps the most fitting analogy for you, awareness, is light. Just as the light illumining a room allows all the objects situated and activities transpiring within that room to be known, so you, awareness, “illumine” all the objects appearing within the mind associated with the apparent individual referred to as Upton. However, just as the light illumining a room does not know the objects in the room, so you, awareness, do not know the objects appearing in the mind. Awareness is often referred to as chaitanya-atma or “witnessing awareness,” but actually attributeless awareness is not knower of objects, for pure awareness itself is not a personal entity endowed with a mind. Awareness is referred to as the “witness” because it is the intelligence or consciousness that informs or illumines the mind and, thereby, enables the mind to know objects. The mind (i.e., subtle body) is actually nothing more than a mechanism designed to perform the functions of perceiving, integrating, doubting, conceiving, discriminating, deciding, and emoting. In other words, it is what we might call an “experience processor.” As such, the mind has no independent self-nature; its functioning is entirely dependent on awareness. Just as even the most advanced computer does not operate on its own but requires some form of energy that enables it to carry out its complex functions, so the mind only thinks when enlivened by awareness.

 

The ramification of this circumstance is rather profound. You, awareness, are not the thinker-knower because you yourself have no mind, and the mind is not the thinker-knower because it is not actually anything more than insentient subtle matter. Strangely enough, however, when the mind is illumined by awareness, thinking and knowing take place. Thus, you, awareness, are simply the “light” in the “field” of whose illumination all objects appear and by means of which the mind performs the function of “knowing” them. In this sense, awareness is not watching anything.

 

When illumined by awareness, the mind will always be aware or conscious of something; will always be a subject in relation to an object; will always be the relative witness, watcher, or knower of whatever is witnessed, watched, or known. When the mind, thus, functions according to its design, we refer to it as the relative “knower” or “witness.” You, pure awareness, the “light” that illumines and, thus, enlivens the mind and enables it to operate is “who” we refer to as the “supreme subject-knower” or “witnessing awareness.”

 

What’s more, the mind is “one” for whom enlightenment occurs. It is the mind that is clouded by avidya, ignorance, and thus can’t “see” its own true nature. Once the mind’s agitating desires and extroverting tendencies (i.e., the “clouds” cast by ignorance) have been sufficiently subdued, however, and it is still enough to accurately reflect the unmodified nature of pure awareness, it catches a “glimpse” of the limitlessness that is its fundamental reality. This “glimpse” comes in the form of a subtle thought called the akhandakara-vritti, the “thought of limitlessness,” by means of which the apparent individual realizes that he is both whole and the whole.

 

This is a very subtle understanding that can be cultivated by carefully scrutinizing your own immediate experience. While the mind-body-sense complex that constitutes the apparent individual you take yourself to be is in a continual state of flux and that person has had innumerable experiences in his life, there is never a moment when you are not present. There has never been a day when you said, “You know, Upton, I’m tired today. You go do whatever you please, but I’m staying in bed.” No matter what Upton decided to do, no matter how potentially pleasurable or painful it may have been, there was never a moment when you bailed. You are always present. Even in dreamless sleep, when the mind shuts down completely, you remain present. Though Upton might think you, awareness, was not there, you, awareness, had to have been. Had you ceased to exist, Upton would not have woken up, for something (i.e., objects, such as the mind-body-sense complex) cannot come out of nothing. Hence, despite the fact that you are attributeless and non-objectifiable, if the instrument of the mind, when illumined by awareness, really pays close attention and contemplate Upton’s experience, it can know not only that it is, but also what it is (i.e. it’s limitless nature). While pure awareness is not and never will be an object or experience itself, its non-negatable, immutable, and all-pervasive presence will be known when you understand that everything that ever has been, is now, and will be is a phantasmagoria of objective phenomena appearing within the scope of the limitless conscious existence that is your very nature.

 

In a nutshell, you will realize that the conscious reality that informs the apparent individual is the same real conscious reality that informs the entire universe. Though the objects, including the apparent individual you take yourself to be, appearing within its scope are many, there is only one awareness. And you are that."

Ted Schmidt