How do you define a relative self?

[Xonas Pitfall]

To clarify, I'm talking about the relative self (lowercase self), not the total Self or total consciousness.

I feel like there's a lot of debate around questions such as: "Is a fetus conscious?" "Are animals conscious?" "Could AI develop consciousness? If not through electronic hardware, what about AI built using organoids or biological neurons (wetware)?", "When does a baby or child become conscious?" "When was the first time you felt your relative self or ego forming?"

When would you say a relative self, ego, or sense of "I" forms, and why/how?

Is it dependent on specific areas of the human brain, or is it more about higher-order complexity, information processing, and the capacity for self-reflection?

For example, let's say you could connect a fly's brain to a second brain that significantly increases its processing power, memory, and capacity for self-reflection. Would the fly then develop a sense of "I"? Would it become self-aware in a way it wasn't before?

How would you even create, define, or measure that?

I'd be really curious to hear people's thoughts on this! 

[integral]

AI is a P-zombie. 

It's behaviorally identical to a human but completely lacks phenomenal experience.

A calculator does not experience 2+2 = 4 when you hit enter.

I suspect human experience is the brain drawing all of its senses onto a screen And it uses tricks of memory to create continuity, object permanence and time. 

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For example, let's say you could connect a fly's brain to a second brain that significantly increases its processing power, memory, and capacity for self-reflection. Would the fly then develop a sense of "I"? Would it become self-aware in a way it wasn't before?

The fly is experiencing something. Self awareness is not necessary for experience.

Edited 52 minutes ago by integral

[cetus]

21 minutes ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

When would you say a relative self, ego, or sense of "I" forms, and why/how?

You could write a book on that one. But I will say, of course, it doesn't happen overnight.

Why? Self-preservation. Survival. Natural instinct.