A verse from Quran and a Hadith from Prophet Muhammad is enough

[James123]

5 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

Unknowing 🙏 

La İlahe İllallah 🙏☝🏻

[Ziran]

18 hours ago, James123 said:

Can you clarify?

Most succinctly, 

"knowing" is a masculine form of cognition.  It's probing, intimate, sharp.  It's fact based.  In order to "know" one must cross into the other's territory.   That's why "knowing" is a euphemism for consumation of nuptials.

"Understanding" is a feminine form of cognition.  Understanding a matter involves traversing around its perimeter, watching its behavior, without violating its border.  

"Knowing" is like a closed fist.  When something is known, there is no denying it.  It's a sort of brute force type of cognition. 

"Understanding" is like an open palm.  The cognition is fluid, and ideas blossom from it.

Understanding trumps knowing when considering... the "unseen".

18 hours ago, James123 said:

Where I am really is deep down, all the way down of the eyes, or body. I don't know, but I am all the way down. I see the mind, thoughts, body movements at the surface. But, me as not something or nothing, it is just ducking me. That's all. Have no name, shape, identification, even as nothing, still an identification. Just Me.

It's "void"?

Edited 23 hours ago by Ziran

[Ziran]

Here's a wiki article which describes "understanding" as contrasted with "knowing".  It's useful for rapid deployment and language learning.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackboxing

Here's a Ytube on it:

Secular western education and social media discourage understanding in favor of knowing.  Knowing is rewarded.  Inquiry is not.  It's a big problem,  world-wide.

Edited 23 hours ago by Ziran

[James123]

38 minutes ago, Ziran said:

Most succinctly, 

"knowing" is a masculine form of cognition.  It's probing, intimate, sharp.  It's fact based.  In order to "know" one must cross into the other's territory.   That's why "knowing" is a euphemism for consumation of nuptials.

"Understanding" is a feminine form of cognition.  Understanding a matter involves traversing around its perimeter, watching its behavior, without violating its border.  

"Knowing" is like a closed fist.  When something is known, there is no denying it.  It's a sort of brute force type of cognition. 

"Understanding" is like an open palm.  The cognition is fluid, and ideas blossom from it.

Understanding trumps knowing when considering... the "unseen".

I get it. 

30 minutes ago, Ziran said:

Here's a wiki article which describes "understanding" as contrasted with "knowing".  It's useful for rapid deployment and language learning.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackboxing

Here's a Ytube on it:

Secular western education and social media discourage understanding in favor of knowing.  Knowing is rewarded.  Inquiry is not.  It's a big problem,  world-wide.

My son is 2 years old. Do you know what I see as he growing up? He doesn't learn or know the language he just parrots or copy and pastes.

Therefore:

41 minutes ago, Ziran said:

It's "void"?

Even saying void or not void. İs it a sound, experience, imagination? None of it.

All I know is, I am what I am, always same. İt is not nothing, but there is nothing there.

And body is love and in love. İt works with love, heart pumps the love, it circling in entire dna, in blood, in air, even fingers writings. All works with love, without me getting involved.

[Ziran]

1 minute ago, James123 said:

Even saying void or not void. İs it a sound, experience, imagination? None of it.

Not void.

Pure awareness?

[Ziran]

2 minutes ago, James123 said:

He doesn't learn or know the language he just parrots or copy and pastes.

Pure awareness. 

[Ziran]

9 minutes ago, James123 said:

I am what I am

Awareness.

9 minutes ago, James123 said:

İt is not nothing, but there is nothing there.

A square is a rectangle, a rectangle is not a square.

Like an impossibly large cone, like an ice cream cone, floating in tbe sky.  Looking from one extreme it's a point, and from the other it's completely void. 

What you're observing, I think, is the limit of awareness.  Awareness cannot be aware of itself.  It's a reflexive paradox.  Deriving it is complicated, but I can try to explain if you want.

For those that are curious, look up Russel's paradox.

Edited 22 hours ago by Ziran

[James123]

19 minutes ago, Ziran said:

Awareness.

A square is a rectangle, a rectangle is not a square.

Like an impossibly large cone, like an ice cream cone, floating in tbe sky.  Looking from one extreme it's a point, and from the other it's completely void. 

What you're observing, I think, is the limit of awareness.  Awareness cannot be aware of itself.  It's a reflexive paradox.  Deriving it is complicated, but I can try to explain if you want.

For those that are curious, look up Russel's paradox.

İt is not paradox. Arm is an arm, leg is a leg. Body is body. Me is Me. 

[James123]

@Ziran And action is never taken by me. 

I am not aware of anything. I am always what I am.

Action is taken by the body / mind, even saying or believing in paradox, or awareness is aware, these are the mind / body.

[James123]

@Ziran you can say, but you are aware of the body, because you define the body, love, what you are etc...

No.

one's you realize that actually not even realize, I don't know how to explain, like saying I am hungry, body hunger for food, and it talks about it.

And these sentences are exactly like that. Body talks about me, for me.

But I am always what I am. 

[Ziran]

12 minutes ago, James123 said:

Body talks about me, for me.

But I am always what I am. 

Hmm.  Correct me?  The word choice 'but', disjunct, is not entirely consistent with the rest of what you're writing in this thread and others?

'But' is a disjunct.  It excludes.  Are you excluded?

What if 'but' is replaced with 'and', conjunct?  'And' connects. 'But' disconnects.  'And' includes.  It's a minor suggestion.   It could be completely wrong.  However, I'm curious. 

"Body talks about, for me.

And I am always What I am."

How does that feel when reading it back to yourself?  Any difference?

Edited 22 hours ago by Ziran

[James123]

16 minutes ago, Ziran said:

Hmm.  Correct me?  The word choice 'but', disjunct, is not entirely consistent with the rest of what you're writing in this thread and others?

'But' is a disjunct.  It excludes.  Are you excluded?

What if 'but' is replaced with 'and', conjunct?  'And' connects. 'But' disconnects.  'And' includes.  It's a minor suggestion.   It could be completely wrong.  However, I'm curious. 

 

"Body talks about, for me.

 

 

And I am always What I am."

How does that feel when reading it back to yourself?  Any difference?

No.

Don't try to read as mind favor, which is interpretation, evaluation etc...

Just read what is written. 

Then maybe, you realize that you are not, were never a reader, it was just the body.

And only interpretation or believing in mind made you or create you as a reader. 

[Ziran]

2 hours ago, James123 said:

No.

Don't try to read as mind favor, which is interpretation, evaluation etc...

Just read what is written. 

Got it.  ~thumbs-up~

2 hours ago, James123 said:

Then maybe, you realize that you are not, were never a reader, it was just the body.

And only interpretation or believing in mind made you or create you as a reader. 

With the highest respect, with what authority or knowledge do you **actually** possess in regard to asserting anything about me?  It's conjecture, at best.  You should know by now, I'm unique.  An outlier.  Not because I'm better, just because I've had access and hours and hours and hours of practice.

At least consider?  From a practical perspective?  Everytime you tell me about myself, it's a fail.  It shuts down the conversation.

[James123]

1 hour ago, Ziran said:

With the highest respect, with what authority or knowledge do you **actually** possess in regard to asserting anything about me?  It's conjecture, at best.  You should know by now, I'm unique.  An outlier.  Not because I'm better, just because I've had access and hours and hours and hours of practice.

At least consider?  From a practical perspective?  Everytime you tell me about myself, it's a fail.  It shuts down the conversation.

Unique outliner? 😂 

Entire universe is within You. 😂 

You made me laugh man in amazing way. 💜 Much love and respect to you. 

La İlahe İllallah.

Edit: I texted to you over pm to have an amazing conversation 😍 

Edited 18 hours ago by James123

[Breakingthewall]

On 20/6/2026 at 9:54 PM, James123 said:

İf logic is used by person as trying to figure out or experience or know what Truth or love is, it is misleading.

It depends of the person. Some have a logical mind that others can't understand, then some need to affirm that logic is useless, but it's a mistake, they should affirm that their logic is useless, then they would be right. It's fine recognize your limits. Imo it would be better dissolving them, but if your ego doesn't allow humility, it's impossible 

[James123]

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

It depends of the person. Some have a logical mind that others can't understand, then some need to affirm that logic is useless, but it's a mistake, they should affirm that their logic is useless, then they would be right. It's fine recognize your limits. Imo it would be better dissolving them, but if your ego doesn't allow humility, it's impossible 

Can one understand the taste of apple without tasting it trough logic?

Therefore, can one understand that lover and loved are identical, yet there is nothing there, yet, therefore identical?

[Breakingthewall]

3 minutes ago, James123 said:

Can one understand the taste of apple without tasting it trough logic?

Therefore, can one understand that lover and loved are identical, yet there is nothing there, yet, therefore identical?

You can understand that the taste of an apple is a subjetive experience that happens due a structure that creates a reality where a model of the interaction of an organism and the universe is defined, then that taste is just another code of information. Of course this code is absolutely alive, same than anything else, because it's an expression of the unlimited, that lives because it's unlimited. 

Absolutely logical as you could see. 

The part of the lover and loved and nothing is just an interpretation based in mystical text from ancient times, that content powerful intuitions but lacks the logical knowledge that we have nowadays. You can't say that reality is "nothing" because nothing is a concept that implies absence, so it doesn't fit with the topic. 

[James123]

39 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

You can understand that the taste of an apple is a subjetive experience that happens due a structure that creates a reality where a model of the interaction of an organism and the universe is defined, then that taste is just another code of information. Of course this code is absolutely alive, same than anything else, because it's an expression of the unlimited, that lives because it's unlimited. 

Absolutely logical as you could see. 

The part of the lover and loved and nothing is just an interpretation based in mystical text from ancient times, that content powerful intuitions but lacks the logical knowledge that we have nowadays. You can't say that reality is "nothing" because nothing is a concept that implies absence, so it doesn't fit with the topic. 

When stomach is empty, entire existence fits in. 

Taste the love man, you won't regret, after you will throw all this bullshit. 

Like Rumi, burned all the books.

[Ziran]

17 hours ago, James123 said:

Entire universe is within You. 😂 

I am not within myself. 

^^ Russell's paradox ^^

Think about it.  Can infinity possess itself?

Edited 22 minutes ago by Ziran

[James123]

16 minutes ago, Ziran said:

I am not within myself. 

^^ Russell's paradox ^^

Think about it.  Can infinity possess itself?

No. Everything arises and falls within, yet You are none. 

Like a arises from within black hole, as existence or infinite and falls within black hole.

Black hole, there is nothing there. Yet, it is the source of infinity, existence. Yet, not them.

Sorry not black hole 😂 big bang I mean 😂 

Edited 8 minutes ago by James123