Leo, I Think Your Model of Reality Is Missing a Mechanism

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Monster Energy said:

So either the universe has some kind of order

Of course. It's not just order, it the One and Only Perfect Order. Infinite Intelligence/Love.

Love IS the Order.

Edited 3 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Cred]

1 minute ago, Monster Energy said:

Maybe. But if chaos keeps making patterns, at some point it stops looking like chaos.

This is the thing that I also don't quite get😅 if the second law of thermodynamics is correct, this means that at the beginning of the universe, there was lower entropy, even though the universe was obviously more chaotic. There seems to be a strange relationship between entropy order and chaos that I don't quite understand yet.

[Monster Energy]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course. It's not just order, it the One and Only Perfect Order. Infinite Intelligence.

So is existence intelligent because it’s self-organizing on its own, or because consciousness experiences itself as separate parts, or maybe it’s both?

 

[Cred]

3 minutes ago, Monster Energy said:

So is existence intelligent because it’s self-organizing on its own, or because consciousness experiences itself as separate parts, or maybe it’s both?

 

existence is not inherently intelligent. Intelligence arises from order and complexity (also it has to be a system). A gas cloud, for example, has low order and is therefore not intelligent in my definition.

Edited 2 hours ago by Cred

[Monster Energy]

3 minutes ago, Cred said:

This is the thing that I also don't quite get😅 if the second law of thermodynamics is correct, this means that at the beginning of the universe, there was lower entropy, even though the universe was obviously more chaotic. There seems to be a strange relationship between entropy order and chaos that I don't quite understand yet.

Yeah, it’s weird. If the universe started with low entropy, that almost suggests there was more order at the beginning than we usually imagine.

 

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Monster Energy said:

So is existence intelligent because it’s self-organizing on its own

Infinity is automatically Intelligent.

Infinity is Intelligence. They are One.

Intelligence is not some secondary property that happens later. It is there from before time began.

Edited 2 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Cred]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Infinity is automatically Intelligent.

Infinity is Intelligence. They are One.

I am making a distinction between a system and an intelligent system.

existence also has a finite aspect that is not intelligent in my view

There is no infinity without complexity is what I'm saying

Edited 2 hours ago by Cred

[Willy Phallicus]

5 minutes ago, Monster Energy said:

So either the universe has some kind of order… or chaos is a lot more organized than we like to admit.

Order and chaos are dual aspects of one reality.  Order is inherent within chaos and chaos always lurks within all ordered systems.  Order is rigid, chaos is amorphous.  Order is affirmative, chaos is negation.

Order without chaos is pure abstraction, chaos without order is unmanifest nothing.  The dynamic between chaos and order is known as the dialectic...

[Monster Energy]

2 minutes ago, Cred said:

existence is not inherently intelligent. Intelligence arises from order and complexity (also it has to be a system). A gas cloud, for example, has low order and is therefore not intelligent in my definition.

I’ll be honest, I do think existence is intelligent. The problem is that people are looking at it from different levels of perspective. The deeper your awareness gets, the more it starts to look like there’s some kind of intelligence or purpose behind the whole thing.

It’s a bit like pets. Someone who’s never had one might look at it and think, “Why would anyone care that much about an animal?” But people who’ve had a dog or a cat know there’s this strange bond there. It’s hard to explain, but it’s real to you. And if someone’s never experienced it, no amount of explanation really gets them there.

So maybe it’s the same with existence. Some people see randomness. Others start seeing something deeper in it.

 

[Cred]

@Willy Phallicus Word. Yeah it's a Yin and Yang thing

Edited 2 hours ago by Cred

[Monster Energy]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Infinity is automatically Intelligent.

Infinity is Intelligence. They are One.

But according to you, how does intelligence show up in experience then? Is it in the structure of reality itself, or in the awareness that arises within it?

 

[Cred]

@Monster Energy i'm not saying that existence is not intelligent. I'm saying that in addition to both the order and chaos aspect, it also has both a finite and an infinite aspect. These also seem to make a unity of opposites. Without the infinite the finite I can't exist, and without the finite, the infinite can't exist.

I think your pet example is very fitting. According to my model, different humans have a different access to infinity. For example, if you are a very empathic person, you resonate with the empathy of dogs, and if you are an unempathetic person, you resonate more with cats, for example.

Another example is, that an autistic person has a better access to the beauty of complexity, while a neurotropical person has a better access to pride through identity. if you put someone with autism or ADHD in a rally, they will only see stupidity, and therefore the finite. but if a Neurotypical person is very involved with the movement, it can lead them to get glimpse of infinity through that.

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Cred

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Monster Energy said:

But according to you, how does intelligence show up in experience then? Is it in the structure of reality itself, or in the awareness that arises within it?

Consciousness is infinitely intelligent.

Everything is Consciousness. Intelligence creates all forms.

When you see a cloud in the sky, Intelligence had to create that cloud so you could see it. That doesn't mean the cloud itself is intelligent. The cloud is stupid. But Intelligence is imagining the cloud into existence.

Edited 2 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Willy Phallicus]

That thing you want to know cannot be apprehended by logical thinking.  A whole new faculty is required.

[Cred]

@Leo Gura the finite, and the infinite create reality together in harmony.

[Cred]

1 minute ago, Willy Phallicus said:

That thing you want to know cannot be apprehended by logical thinking.  A whole new faculty is required.

What you're talking about is ontology, the method of which is contemplation

Edited 2 hours ago by Cred

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Cred said:

@Leo Gura the finite, and the infinite create reality together in harmony.

They are identical.

[Cred]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

They are identical.

I agree

Quote

The Field is

• neither unity nor duality
• duality and not unity
• not duality and unity
• and both unity and duality
• ad infinitum

It's a strange loop basically

Replace unity with infinity and duality with the finite

Edited 2 hours ago by Cred

[IslandWild]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You know what an unstable mind is like. That's when you dream.

My intuition has always leaned me towards idea that the experience of dreaming is closer to what the substance of what reality is more than the actual "solidified" existence we experience when we are awake. I find an unusual comfort in dreaming, even when they are unpleasant.

Perhaps I am mistaken, but my intuition seems to be one my stronger qualities.

[YIDIRYIDIR]

1 hour ago, zurew said:

Okay thanks, thats slightly different from saying that it cannot be known in principle, its is just that we fail to grasp whats the potential answer is given our limited cognition and capabilities.

I always have this analogy that I keep in mind, which is this:
we are like a binary calculator trying to explain and do calculus or take a photo. we are simply limited and so what we can grasp. probably though, I'm not sure lol