Leo, I Think Your Model of Reality Is Missing a Mechanism

[Monster Energy]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's not a problem. You can easily know it is Infinite. But that doesn't explain any of the detailed structure or experience.

It doesn't tell you why chimpanzees are made of atoms.

No, it's like knowing numbers go infinitely long but know being able to do complex math.

A child who barely knows math can tell you that numbers go forever.

But numbers are part of a system we defined. Reality isn’t. So the analogy only goes so far.

 

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, zurew said:

by "why the way it is and not otherwise" you are not implying some kind of teleology right? You are just saying that there might be a descriptive answer to that question,right?

Like when it comes to the Conway's Game of Life, you can get very interesting structures if you run it long enough and you can in principle know the initial conditions of the game, but there isn't any teleology built into it.

I already know the ultimate teleology: it's maximization of Love.

Reality is structured to maximize Love.

There are not multiple ways for Reality to be. There is only ONE way. That's the way it is. But that still doesn't explain why I'm not a chimpanzee.

7 minutes ago, Monster Energy said:

But numbers are part of a system we defined. Reality isn’t. So the analogy only goes so far.

You can be directly conscious of Infinity.

In fact, you can know Reality is nothing but Infinity. This is not a conceptual knowing, it is direct, it is Being, not knowing. It is Truth itself.

Edited 2 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Cred]

@zurew teleology is true in so far that entropy increases. Is it not?

[Cred]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I already know the ultimate teleology: it's maximization of Love.

Reality is structured to maximize Love.

I agree with this, but Love is not unity, crucially. Love is the balance between unity and duality, which is symbiosis. With complete unity there is no life.

The reason why unity and duality both exist is to maximize entropy. Localized unity causes the whole system to gain more entropy in the long run in my understanding.

complete unity, which is singularity, increases entropy through the Hawking radiation

Edited 2 hours ago by Cred

[zurew]

2 minutes ago, Cred said:

@zurew teleology is true in so far that entropy increases. Is it not?

There is a sense in which you can interpret the term teleology in a way where what you there is true.

I was using the term in a normative sense not just in a descriptive sense.

Edited 2 hours ago by zurew

[Leo Gura]

Love is Unity. Unity is an Absolute and includes duality within it.

[Cred]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Love is Unity. Unity is an Absolute and includes duality within it.

The field includes both unity and duality. If you have complete unity, you have amalgamation, obsession and loss of control.

[Leo Gura]

Knowing the big picture of God is easy. Knowing the fine details is hard. That's why science is such a pain to do.

How many hairs are on your ass? Good luck counting them all. But you know for sure your ass is hairy.

Edited 1 hour ago by Leo Gura

[Cred]

@zurew yes the term teleology is a term of the domain of meaning. However, I think I can show how meaning arises from entropy.

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Cred said:

The field includes both unity and duality.

Then that's a Unity.

Two things are held together as One.

[Cred]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Knowing the big picture of God is easy. Knowing the fine details is hard. That's why science is such a pain to do.

you are mistaking complexity for unity. This is a very subtle distinction.

[Cred]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Then that's a Unity.

Two things are held together as One.

I don't think we are in disagreement. I am making a distinction between the whole and unity.

Edited 1 hour ago by Cred

[Monster Energy]

Existence is weird. One minute you’re asking what the universe is, the next minute you’re just trying to find coffee

 

[zurew]

6 minutes ago, Cred said:

@zurew yes the term teleology is a term of the domain of meaning. However, I think I can show how meaning arises from entropy.

Thats not how I meant it.

This is how I meant it:

You can take teleology to mean something descriptive like "The Universe increases entropy" (here you are just describing behavior in a non-normative way) ; but you can make it normative by saying something like "The Universe was built with the purpose of increasing entropy" - in this case, it sounds like that the Universe either has a choice to do otherwise and or it is the case that the Universe can fail to live up to that  built in purpose.

Edited 1 hour ago by zurew

[Cred]

2 minutes ago, Cred said:

I don't think we are in disagreement. I am making a distinction between the whole and unity.

The Field is

• neither unity nor duality
• duality and not unity
• not duality and unity
• and both unity and duality
• ad infinitum

It's a strange loop basically

[Monster Energy]

If existence were truly random, nothing would hold together for more than a moment. The fact that things keep forming patterns and structure means it’s not pure chaos. So either the universe has some kind of order… or chaos is a lot more organized than we like to admit.

 

 

[Cred]

@zurew I see what you mean. You are pointing out the distinction of "the universe has a direction", which is entropy and "the universe has an end goal" which is teleology. Did I get it right?

[zurew]

Just now, Cred said:

I see what you mean. You are pointing out the distinction of "the universe has a direction", which is entropy and "the universe has an end goal" which is teleology. Did I get it right?

Yeah

[Cred]

18 minutes ago, Cred said:

The reason why unity and duality both exist is to maximize entropy. Localized unity causes the whole system to gain more entropy in the long run in my understanding.

@Monster Energy

Order causes more chaos than just chaos

[Monster Energy]

1 minute ago, Cred said:

@Monster Energy

Order causes more chaos than just chaos

Maybe. But if chaos keeps making patterns, at some point it stops looking like chaos.