Mood swings + meditation

[SmartMonkey]

Hey guys, first post here. Thank you for the opportunity to post on this forum. I've been watching actualized for 2+ years. Young 21 year old male. Been meditating daily for 1+ year.

I've seen Leo's videos on Ego Backlash and Dark Side of Meditation which explain what I'm going through quite well. Mostly I am posting to find others who can relate to this. I'll have 2+ day periods of feeling on top of the world. Like I can conquer any challenge, like I can reach out and grab anything I want in life. Feels like the limitations have come finally come off my mind. Sometimes is accompanied by a selflessness, but more often than not it is accompanied by egotism. Like power is flowing through my veins. Then I'll have 1+ weeks of the exact opposite. My mind is hitting me with every negative thought I can come up with. Every insecurity, every negative emotion is just hitting me all at once. My thoughts will tell me my goals are impossible, I'm stuck, will never make it to where I want to go, etc. Cycles like this are pretty much where I'm at 24/7. I never really feel just calm and normal.

I've been meditating over a year for an hour a day. I've sort of always had these emotional oscillations. But the meditation has certainly taken the lid off it. I have reframed all of this as spiritual purification, purging, growing pains, etc. I don't intend to stop working through this emotional turmoil, but I wanted to reach out and ask about others' experiences starting meditation.

Wow, when I started personal development, there was an expectation that this was going to take ~6 months and all my problems would be solved, haha. I'm getting a lot more than I bargained for. I certainly see the growth, but damn is it more painful and confusing than I could have expected!

Appreciate any replies. Thanks!

[Cred]

First I want to say, I'm not an expert and this does not substitute for medical advice. I advise you to seek professional help. However, I want to add that a "professional" can still be incompetent and not reach the core of the problem.

What you are describing sounds like alternating mania (you feel like you are on top of the world) and depression (you feel like shit) which is called manic depression (bipolar).

I'm not saying that you qualify for a diagnosis but what I am saying, is that what you experience is the same mechanism behind what bipolar people experience, even if it is not as extreme for you as for someone who is diagnosed.

It is important for you to understand that you cannot meditate yourself out of a personality disorder. I believe that a personality disorder is the natural reaction to an unbearable life situation, not a "bug" of the body or a cancer if you will. It has a purpose.

If somebody gives you the order to carry two 50 kilo bags of concrete for 20 meters and your muscles give in after 10 meters, it is not because there is something wrong with you. It's a healthy reaction of the body to make you stop abusing yourself. Being enlightened while carrying the bags in not going to do shit. Your attitude to pain will maybe change, but your muscles will still give in. All enlightenment will do is distract you from doing what you need to do which is to quit the job.

So what is the purpose of the manic depression?

Depression is the psychological equivalent of your muscles giving in. It is your body having an intervention with your mind. It is a message to you from the body which is: What you are doing right now in your life is not right for you.

When you are depressed you cannot move and are forcefully separated from your life situation/routine, which is a good thing, since the goal is to separate anyway, at least on the long run. The depression also gives you time to think and reflect about your life situation.

During this time, you are supposed to activate the default mode network (ask an LLM what the DMN does), let your mind wander and think about your values and your life and how the former aligns with the latter. Just try to avoid falling into negative spirals. The fact that you are neurotic in a depression is also a good thing. Neuroticism means focussing on the bad which is exactly what you are supposed to do when your life is shit, so you know what is wrong and what you need to change.

The purpose of the energy in the manic state is to use it to then actually do the steps necessary to change your life. Quit your job, exmatriculate, etc. If you instead use this energy on distractions like meditating, watching actualized.org or doubling down on your current life situation, you will just end up falling into the hole again. If you never realize that your life situation (this could be unsuitable job/education, toxic family, toxic friends etc.) is the problem, you will be stuck in this cycle forever.

You can be thankful that you developed manic depression. Some people don't tend to not get any personality disorder from excessive stress and this includes me (I think Leo is also a candidate). This is called functional depression ("just push through" attitude). It is good for succeeding in capitalism, but it is awful for your health. It took me too long to change my lifestyle because of this and I suffer chronic pain as a result.

The last thing you need to understand is neurodiversity. Maybe you read this and say "sure my life is tough but isn't is supposed to be like this? Also, my life is great I have nothing to complain about". What you need to understand is that "a good life" for a neurotypical person looks entirely different from an authentic life of a neurodivergent person.

I have made a lot of posts about this already. I suggest you to read:

This is also relevant:

 

Edited Sunday at 11:45 PM by Cred

[LastThursday]

Meditation is not a cure all. 

What can happen when you meditate over a long time is that it gives you a clarity you didn't have before. Sometimes that clarity reveals negative aspects of yourself you weren't aware of before or just ignored. It's quite natural that in uncovering those negative things you'll think about them more often. There's some research that found that meditation can make some people more unhappy than they were. 

The problem with negativity is that there is a strong emotional reaction to it, and this stops you from proactively confronting that negativity. The growth actually comes from confronting the bad parts of yourself in the right way (therapy etc). But the silver lining is that over time, meditation can make you more emotionally resilient, and to better regulate your reactions. 

Clarity is neither good or bad, it just brings things into sharper focus.

[Cred]

Exactly. The belief that awakening can substitute for emotional development is well known in the spirituality community and is called "spiritual bypassing".

[Infinite Tsukuyomi]

The quick version:

Ego backlash is the answer that your mind is choosing because it sounds the most noble, this would happen even without your meditation eventually. You don't currently have everything you feel like you want in life yet. Your mind is not like other people's but you've masked it extremely well through doing what you "should" be doing. This type of work is highly appealing to who you believe you should be. Yes I relate, and you are not alone. You will receive even more self help esque replies, and you will eat them up. 

The long version:

The good news is that you are likely doing the right things in the spirituality sense, as you get closer and closer to your true nature the ego does indeed backlash. 

I have to agree with most of what Cred says, meditation will make your problems worse before it makes them better. It took me awhile to accept that. I still meditate but I don't confuse it with my life situation changing. My spiritual practices are for deepening awakenings, and having ever clearer consciousness. Meditation is not a prescription for the neuro-divergent mind. Avoid romanticizing your suffering, there is a possibility it could become toxic. 

The predicament in which you find yourself, your current life, is not yet tailored to what you want it to be. I suggest get busy and get lost in the process of getting it to where you want it to be. I say that, as to not have you hypnotize yourself with your goals, but rather with the boring day to day things that move you closer to your ideal life. You already meditate, so you have the discipline to make small steps towards various goals you might have. 

My experience is basically a 1:1 to yours. But after some time, I am convinced that I experience these mood swings and polarities due to undiagnosed ADHD, OCD, bipolar and other disorders. I am considered quite successful to people who know me, was a smart honor roll kid and well functioning in general (from the outside). The inner world is where things are a stark contrast. I read the book Neurosis and Human Growth by Karen Horney. This book brought me to tears and deep anger. I may as well be who is described, even down to this line "He may even speak multiple languages yet does not think he is capable" (slightly paraphrased). 

We tend to be very attracted to self-help, self actualizing, spirituality and growth in general. These fields are perfect, because they are explicitly "growth areas" but for certain personalities, which I'm suggesting you have, they are ways to avoid more pressing work. What I would do differently if I woke up 21 years old again?

I would prioritize actions and activities that undo the identity I built as a child. 9/10 you avoid things that might make you seem like you are not smart and you don't have your shit together. As a child you had to appear as competent, obedient and intelligent. (I'm projecting this onto you, and that is not lost on me). I've been contemplating this for a long time, and only recently got this deep and it is VERY deep. I realized after a skydive that I would rather skydive than dance while someone watched me. A provisional 180 in your life might be useful (I'm still testing this). Meaning allowing yourself to be embarrassed, be wrong, look like a fool, look weak, be mediocre. No one likes these feelings, but it is worse for us. Positive thinking is not for you, but solutions thinking is.

Write as many problems about yourself as you can think of, it doesn't matter if they overlap of seem unimportant, then write what you will focus on with action when that problem comes up throughout the day in your mind. This will act as a quick reference guide to ensure you focus on the solution.

Your mind is bombarding you with all your problems and it will not stop, then you start feeling better, motivated, inspired, embodied just to fall from grace over and over again as you described. Yes I relate, no you are not alone in that. People like us rarely talk about it in detail, because it is not popular and we sound lazy, anti self help or nihilistic. It is important that you do not let anyone gaslight you about this, because that will start a second fire, wherein you start to doubt your own experience of yourself.  

Edited Monday at 02:30 AM by Infinite Tsukuyomi
Highlighting

[SmartMonkey]

Thank you all for your replies. I realize I only mentioned meditation in my initial post. But I'm also actively working on improving my life situation, and using meditation as a way to loosen my patterns so I can work consistently towards my more practical goals moreso than to achieve enlightenment right now.

 

I also exercise quite a bit, am finding my life purpose and taking action on aligning my life around that.

 

I likely am neurodivergent and have thought about this, but was of the belief that that wouldn't change the correct steps I need to take to improve my life anyway.

 

Cred, can I ask you what you mean when you keep referencing an "authentic life" for ND and how that is very different from a life that works for NT?

 

I'm not sure that I 100% understand your guys' replies, but I want to understand. But thank you for taking the time.

[LastThursday]

9 hours ago, SmartMonkey said:

using meditation as a way to loosen my patterns

That is all of self-development in four words. Seems like you're on the right track. There's no end to the process of loosening patterns.

Edited 19 hours ago by LastThursday

[Cred]

14 hours ago, SmartMonkey said:

Cred, can I ask you what you mean when you keep referencing an "authentic life" for ND and how that is very different from a life that works for NT?

I was posting, I am posting, and I will be posting a ton on the topic of neurodivergency. Here is the biggest thread so far: 

 

[Cred]

4 hours ago, LastThursday said:

That is all of self-development in four words. Seems like you're on the right track. There's no end to the process of loosening patterns.

When talking about "loosening up patterns" it is important to understand autism.

Autism is the love of the repetitive. When the life of an autistic person is chaotic, they suffer and cope with excessive repetitive behavior. This is why you need to be careful of assessing patterns as harmful. This is just like with depression, mania and paranoia and other "pathologies". They have a purpose and the underlying problem does not go away when you try to remove them. When you fight them, they will get worse. When you have autism you cannot exist peacefully without a certain amount of repetition.

So you need to really ask yourself if you want repetition in your life and if the answer is yes, allow yourself the amount of repetition that you need. When you do that, the things that you do repetitively will become more and more authentic, less harmful and less compulsive.

[LastThursday]

@Cred no problems I understand where you're coming from. Even most normies love repetitiveness and routine. 

I think by "loosening" I really meant the choice to take on new patterns if desired, or basically just having a choice at all. The way I see it self-development is all about giving you choice about new patterns of behaviour - but not excluding the patterns you already had. Given a choice of two competing patterns you will take the more beneficial one.

Although if @SmartMonkey means something else by "loosening patterns", then it would be good to hear it.

Edited 9 hours ago by LastThursday

[SmartMonkey]

@LastThursday That's exactly what I meant. Before meditation I neurotically tried to "fix" my own behavior by setting rigorous schedules to fit my extremely high standards of myself. When I wasn't perfect, I gave up completely and slid back into my old patterns. That cycle continued until I started turning inward and looking at things within myself I didn't want to look at.

Through this past year I've "loosened up" these patterns and gained perspective on a lot of stuff. Realized my intense anger (which prevented me from functioning well in relationships) was just a cover for a lot of grief and vulnerability, all of which I've had the privilege of coming face to face with on the mat. Extremely difficult and turbulent process. But now I'm feeling more and more aligned with positive motivation, genuine creativity, rather than a desperate need to get away from pain. My relationships are healthier. I was able to drop a lot of negative habits with less shame when I fall off track. Accepted parts of myself I disowned. All that good stuff.

Growth is a lot slower than I would like.  But who am I to tell the process what it should and shouldn't be! If I'm able to loosen the patterns of shame and judgement on myself and others through this long term process, I'll go through 1000 ego backlashes and difficult days when I have to work through a lot of stuff. I don't care.