Democrats should run a scorched-earth message on the media environment!

[Elliott]

5 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

That doesnt sound like prosperity lol

The thought is that people, society in total, will be more productive in the important ways, if basic needs are first met.

For example, the thought is that there is untapped potential, untapped genius, right now in impoverished areas(half the world). And that there's a lot of waste, just to run our dysfunctional system, think of all the bad things done because of scarcity mindset.

Edited 1 hour ago by Elliott

[Wilhelm44]

1 minute ago, Elliott said:

The thought is that people, society in total, will be more productive in the important ways, if basic needs are first met.

For example, the thought is that there is untapped potential, untapped genius, right now in impoverished areas(half the world)

Yeah im all for that, but will those people then have the freedom to use their genius and start their own business and become wealthy enough to travel the world ? Socialism seems great to meet basic needs, but then i sense there's some curtailing of freedom in the end. Thats why i still say there must be a practical way to get the best aspects of capitalism and socialism together, while limiting the negative aspects of both.

[Elliott]

26 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

Yeah im all for that, but will those people then have the freedom to use their genius and start their own business and become wealthy enough to travel the world ? Socialism seems great to meet basic needs, but then i sense there's some curtailing of freedom in the end.

Is business what we as people or society ultimately desire?

Quote

Thats why i still say there must be a practical way to get the best aspects of capitalism and socialism together, while limiting the negative aspects of both.

That's capitalism, not socialism. There's no 'mix', they're two different systems, welfare is a capitalist program.

Think of socialism as collective ownership. Capitalism as cash transaction system, with charity. Think of tribal times, before paper, before written ownership, but now add back in; civility. In tribal times people robbed each other, but they also shared everything, they traded with foreigners, but not with currency(capital).

Capital/cash, Social/everyone has equal ownership of the world, no capital.

Consider what capital/cash actually is. It's created-debt. That's what socialism does away with.

 

 

Edited 1 hour ago by Elliott

[Wilhelm44]

@Elliott Business is not what we ultimately desire. But i think freedom is a big one for a lot of people. Thats what a business can give someone, ie the ability to travel to an exotic destination for a holiday if they so choose. (with collective ownership will we reach those levels of prosperity and freedom ?) 

[Elliott]

4 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

@Elliott Business is not what we ultimately desire. But i think freedom is a big one for a lot of people. Thats what a business can give someone, ie the ability to travel to an exotic destination for a holiday if they so choose.

 

Quote

(with collective ownership will we reach those levels of prosperity and freedom ?) 

The idea is yes, it's utopian.

The idea is that there's a lot of waste in capitalism, just to run our dysfunctional system, think of all the bad things done because of scarcity mindset. The idea is socialism will be more productive, in the desired ways.

Edited 1 hour ago by Elliott

[Wilhelm44]

6 minutes ago, Elliott said:

 

The idea is yes, it's utopian.

The idea is that there's a lot of waste in capitalism, just to run our dysfunctional system, think of all the bad things done because of scarcity mindset. The idea is socialism will be more productive, in the desired ways.

Well, then Im all for it, i just dont want it to be put in place through violence. 

[Elliott]

15 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

Well, then Im all for it, i just dont want it to be put in place through violence. 

I'm not promoting it, I'm a capitalist. I don't think it would work with the current level of common intelligence(why it requires violence). I was just trying to show the vast differences and inherent conflict between the two.

Edited 57 minutes ago by Elliott

[Wilhelm44]

16 minutes ago, Elliott said:

I'm not promoting it, I'm a capitalist. I don't think it would work with the current level of common intelligence(why it requires violence). I was just trying to show the vast differences and inherent conflict between the two.

So you think pure capitalism is the best system ?

[Elliott]

35 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

So you think pure capitalism is the best system ?

Capitalism just means we use capital, private ownership, it means nothing in regards to social programs like welfare or UBI, nor does it mean anything about how we tax, which I believe you're insinuating. Scandinavia is capitalist. I think we need constitutional direct-democracies, in regard to social programs like UBI and welfare, which I support, this would be capitalist. "pure capitalist" is a misnomer, it's not even a real concept, it's just capitalism, you probably mean neo-liberalism/corporatism(pseudo-free market), no I don't support those.

Edited 5 minutes ago by Elliott