Sold A Story - How adult politics created an American illiteracy epidemic

[Thought Art]

@DocWatts Perhaps not essential as I suspect many adults can’t… but it’s very very powerful. 

Edited Monday at 02:06 PM by Thought Art

[Elliott]

@Thought Art how do you know the difference between these?

 

I love my deer

I love my dear

 

I killed an ant

I killed an aunt

 

I ate the dough

I ate the doe

 

 

Edited Monday at 02:17 PM by Elliott

[Elliott]

7 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@Elliott If you are able to sound out every single word while reading a book with many words you’ve never seen before it makes it a lot easier because you can sound out the word, and keep reading for deeper context. Being able to read every words makes things way easier. 
 

When I speak of phonetics I also speak of the spelling of the word instead of the memorizing of words. This means for example a word with “ology” you could know it’s a study of something. 
 

But, the main skill in learning phonetics is being able to spell any word you hear with high accuracy and being able to read and sound out every word. This is a more robust and complete form of reading and writing. 

Of course phonetics is used in learning a word, you have to speak it! My reservation is with reading, you have to memorize words, phonetics in reading is for cheating to not have to memorize low hanging fruit words: i.e. 'child level reading'

Edited Monday at 02:13 PM by Elliott

[Thought Art]

@Elliott No, you can use phonetics while reading. It’s taught to kids to learn to read and write. 
 

I as I write and read am always using phonetics. I sound out my words as I write to you
 

phonetics brought me from a grade 1 reading level to a grade 12 reading level after 2 years of tutoring when I was in grade 5. 
 

It’s not cheating it’s actually reading English. 
 

English is a phonetic language. Whether you are reading writing it’s the same phonetic system. By learning phonetics you learn to spell and read words. Of course grammar and definitions are largest aspects of grasping the whole language. 

Edited Monday at 02:21 PM by Thought Art

[Elliott]

12 minutes ago, Elliott said:

@Thought Art how do you know the difference between these?

 

I love my deer

I love my dear

 

I killed an ant

I killed an aunt

 

I ate the dough

I ate the doe

 

 

@Thought Art

[Thought Art]

@Elliott context. Some words sound the same. That doesn’t disprove phonetics hahaha. All those words still follow English phonetic logic. 
 

Context is important in all languages that have more than one word with the same sound.

In spelling contests it’s common to ask for the word to be used in a sentence. 

Edited Monday at 02:27 PM by Thought Art

[Elliott]

1 minute ago, Thought Art said:

@Elliott context

So, can you write at a 12th grade level?

[Thought Art]

@Elliott I would assume I can write at a university level as I have done so in the past. 
 

This isn’t about me, but phonetics. 

Edited Monday at 02:27 PM by Thought Art

[Elliott]

@Thought Art you've memorized these words, haven't you?

[Thought Art]

@Elliott After knowing English for decades I have of course the requisite variety to memorize words… but, when I type out sentences I am sounding things out words phonetically in my head. 
 

If you can learn to write a sentence you can learn the logic within human words. Okay! Enough of the Forum today. 
 

If phonetics are interesting to you I’m sure you can study it in more depth. 
 

Peace

Edited Monday at 02:30 PM by Thought Art

[Elliott]

Just now, Thought Art said:

@Elliott After knowing English I have of course the requisite variety to memorize words… but, when I type out sentences I am sounding things out words phonetically in my head. 

And when you get to writing dough/doe, ant/aunt, deer/dear, two/to/too,.... you use brute memory though?

[Elliott]

@Thought Art can you write difficult words correctly, without memorizing them?

[Thought Art]

@Elliott Generally, yes with a high degree of accuracy. I can’t recall memorizing words very often, as I did not learn to read and write that way.

Also, I am a native English speaker and could speak English before I could read and write it.

[Thought Art]

25 minutes ago, Elliott said:

And when you get to writing dough/doe, ant/aunt, deer/dear, two/to/too,.... you use brute memory though?

Not brute memory. As I can apply the aspects I’ve memorized and phonetics. Learning is more complicated than any single system. This is what Leo is teaching right now with his current video series. So instead of trying to prove I don’t memorize as all you should assume I’ve learned my language through a variety of ways including aspects of memorizing, phonetics, etc…. Different aspects of language make use of different aspects of intelligence. 
 

So, do I remember that deer and dear are spelled differently though memory? Well yes. But, I also memorize the phonetic rules too. 

But, I don’t take time looking up words and memorizing how they are spelt 99% of the time because… I did not learn to read and write like that.

And, I’m a native English speaker. So phonetics wasn’t how I learned English but how I learned to read and write my own language.

My own language which is a phonetic system… which doesn’t require gross memorizing as it was designed phonetically. 

Edited Monday at 02:58 PM by Thought Art

[Thought Art]

Did I memorize the Alphabet? Did I memorize the phonetics? Did I memorize similar sounding words? Sure. Memory is part of learning. 
 

Learning phonetics of English offers a higher degree of literacy than just memorizing how words are spelt. The letters in English all make unique sounds, and there are certain combination of letters than make sounds. By learning these you can read most words and spell most words by hearing. English isn’t random… it’s a phonetic system. 

Edited Monday at 03:03 PM by Thought Art

[Elliott]

1 minute ago, Thought Art said:

Not brute memory. As I can apply the aspects I’ve memorized and phonetics. Learning is more complicated than any single system. This is what Leo is teaching right now with his current video series. So instead of trying to prove I don’t memorize as all you should assume I’ve learned my language through a variety of ways including aspects of memorizing, phonetics, etc…. Different aspects of language make use of different aspects of intelligence. 

I can see phonetics being used for a satisfactory level of literacy, I just think it's reckless to say you can decode English with phonetics, it's a ridiculous claim proven so with simple 'to/too/two'. For an accurate level of literacy you would learn through memorization though, but this is hard with dyslexia.

When you're writing and words are coming to you, are they purely in audible form? They're both audible and written when they come to me.

[Elliott]

1 minute ago, Thought Art said:

 The letters in English all make unique sounds, and there are certain combination of letters than make sounds. 

They never touched on this in your school(not your tutor)?

[Thought Art]

@Elliott Yes, it’s important to recall that learning a language comes in many forms and types of learning. 
 

This doesn’t negate that English is a phonetic system. It may have similar sounding words, and the occasional exception. But, by and large it’s a phonetic system with rules on how words are spelled and how they sound. Learning that helps you learn English to a higher level.

You can’t “decode it” alone with phonetics. But phonetics offers a high degree of fluency to those who learn it, in combination with other forms of learning. 

[Thought Art]

2 minutes ago, Elliott said:

They never touched on this in your school(not your tutor)?

They did touch on it. But not in the depth and focus I learned it with my tutor. I’ve shared the system I used in this thread. I did not learn this at school. 
 

We of course learn the sounds of letters, and things. But, not to the degree of how I learned in tutoring. 

I recall their being an emphasis on sight reading over phonetics. That is why my tutor actually quit being a teaching to then teach phonetics. 
 

I gotta go though! I may have to ban myself for the rest of the week to focus.

Edited Monday at 03:10 PM by Thought Art

[Elliott]

I will say, I absolutely do believe a phonetic approach to reading is the best way to read if you don't care about writing, you're converting symbols to sounds, like someone is speaking to you, rather than consciously thinking of the meaning of a symbol, it's easier, more natural. But not to write accurately(half of literacy).

It's kind of funny.....🤔 probably right before Whole Word started, or not too long before it, words weren't standardized, people wrote more phonetically('incorrectly')...... 🤔

......spelling is conformity......

Edited Monday at 03:44 PM by Elliott