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I'm curious. Does solipsism mean it won't affect anyone? Is there a soul, progress lost? How bad is it overall? Or can it be good? What if you're a human working on polarity vs a wanderer here to help, or is that outside Leo's scope? I have my own views as Bashar, but am curious.

We're running in circles and I'm over here explaining how basic influence works because you failed to answer yes to this question: "Would you agree that suicide-permission messaging broadcast at volume to a receptive audience pushes the number up?" And if you don't like that one, omit the descriptor: "Would you agree that suicide messaging broadcast at volume to a receptive audience pushes the number up?" Yes or no? If your answer is "no", then for the argument to continue, I would have to explain how influence works, but I'm not super excited about that, lol. Not sure how you deduced my logic leads there. Do you think I'm saying Leo is directly responsible for specific suicides? I'm making an entirely different argument: Leo's and AO's stance and rhetoric is "contributory". Was Netflix DIRECTLY responsible for suicides? It doesn't work like that because suicide is a process. If the suicide motive is to end suffering, that process is largely a building up of courage, reasons, and other collections of ideas and thought experiments like what-if scenarios and things like this. The process is unpredictable and volatile. Say you're online and come across someone who says they want to end it and you tell them "stop bitching and do it already", then they do it. Are you responsible? Not DIRECTLY, but you contributed. I'm simply saying to stop contributing because you never know where someone is in the process. Leo's "only one way to find out" was tossing a match into a tinderbox and if the user was at a low enough point, it could have supplied them the spark they needed, depending on their circumstances at the time of reading the message. Maybe they just finished fighting with their family and maybe they were drunk and then someone they respect says "only one way to find out", then that's enough for them. This is how this stuff works. You can rarely, if ever, point to one specific thing. If you don't think Netflix is responsible in any way shape or form, I'm not going to be able to get through to you. Lol, nah bruh, too much mess.

I stated this in the other post about suicide. Leo is sloppy here on the forum. But I doubt he will be anymore.

The coke example is a repetition of the same strawman argument that I responded to by saying permission is not promotion. You are equating the two again, even though they are completely different and their effects are completely different. No one is advocating that you should commit suicide. In fact, you are told to avoid it at all costs. But if you've exhausted all of your options, then suicide might be a possible solution. That's very different from marketing coke. You cannot compare the two. The permission is specified with rules and conditions, while marketing plays on your basic desires unconditionally. Interesting example. Reminds me of when "13 Reasons Why" first came out. I watched it and thought it was stupid as all the reasons were silly from my pov. Hannah had no real reason to commit suicide. All that's happened to her was high-school scandal and some light bullying. And yet she killed herself and recorded 13 reasons for why she did so. By your logic, Netflix is directly responsible for many suicides. Yet, the law gave Netflix the right to broadcast it even after it was sued for it. If you have a problem with the law, that's another story. Yes, I'm serious. I'll take that as you conceding. Message is not delivery. Someone can be bad at delivering a message. That doesn't make the message false or harmful, just the way it's delivered.

I'm confused. I wonder if you've misinterpreted something I said because what I'm saying is very basic. Why does Coke pay Kim Kardashian 100k to sip on a Coke during her live stream? And why is it that the more influencers you get doing that, the more Cokes get sold? If you're trying to say something like "We can't prove that any one specific individual is drinking Coke because of Kim Kardashian's influence", then yeah, you're right, and I don't need to because that's not my claim. My claim is that the more influencers drink Coke, the more Cokes get sold. This is not up for debate. Now, swap out Cokes for permissive-suicide messaging. The more influencers offering those messages, the more suicides will occur. This is a provable fact in behavioral science literature. It has to do with your specific claim of "No one would even consider suicide unless they're going through unbearable suffering." And I gave you a specific example that makes the falsehood clear. I could provide many more examples. For instance, a man crushed by debt and worried about his family and so he offs himself so they can get the insurance money. Or he offs himself because the thought of being a failure seems unbearable because he doesn't yet know how to deal with the feeling of being a failure. Or how about Hitler, was he in unbearable suffering when he pulled the trigger? How about a 15 year old girl caught up social media and feeling like she's not beautiful and she's isolated and wants the suffering to stop. That's not unbearable, inescapable suffering. It's a hard time that she can make it through, and her environmental influences can either contribute to seeing her through or contribute to her ending it all. Obviously, there are different motives for suicide, but you're right that I'm specifically talking about suffering. But it seems you're collapsing or equivocating "objectively unbearable" and "subjectively unbearable". The majority I've been speaking of feel that it's "subjectively unbearable", as in, they can't imagine a way out. They're suffering from thoughts and feelings, not from truly unbearable, debilitating pain. These are exactly the types of people most susceptible to harm from suicide-permissive messaging and they can, and obviously ARE influenced all the time. Lol, you serious bro? I ain't even touchn' this one. See, this is why I've been confused this whole time. When you look at Leo's response there and call it terrible, as in "the messaging has a negative effect", you're AGREEING with me because you know that it's exactly what I've been calling it: common sense. That's what it is, and you just arrived at it without a study.

I’ve said it before, but I’ll say it again: ketamine done under medical supervision is a legitimate way to wake someone up from their nightmare of wanting to die from suicide. One trip isn’t enough, you need to do it a handful of times. I died on Ketamine multiple times and realized myself as God. I will never, ever forget those experiences. It saved me and made me realize how powerful I really am.

This has nothing to do with my personal metaphysical views or feelings. I'm making a logical argument for harm reduction in a community that often deals with suicidal desire. I believe rhetoric around death and suicide in such a community should be highly controlled. And I believe that anything that even hints of suicide permission shouldn't be allowed, which is why I said the default position should be "it's always bad" or it shouldn't be spoken of at all. I'm not trying to optimize for what is philosophically true. I believe some suffering suicidal humans going through a rough patch are better off not having access to thousands of pages of text that glorify death, because I think that leads to more harm than good. If it led to more good than harm, I'd be for it. I'd have a different opinion if this community wasn't filled with suicidal people. If you found a way to keep all suicidal people out and if your metaphysical discussions involving showing interest in death were kept behind a wall, where only mentally healthy members could view it, I think it's totally fine to discuss whatever you want. But of course that's not possible and you don't want to cut suicidal people out of your community. So the only way to handle it is to moderate it. There's a reason why WHO and every major news organization has strict protocols around how they report on suicide. They never put it on the front page of a newspaper because if you do that, you increase suicide rates. It's called the Werther effect. They follow protocols like this: They don't avoid this shit because they're "woke". They do it because otherwise, they'd contribute to suicide and suffering.

I agree. I'm saying the existence of positive or permissive suicide messaging increases suicide rate. This is absurd (best term I could find, not trying to be insulting). Is a 14 year old having a temper tantrum and who wants to kill themself experiencing unbearable suffering? Have you heard of the Werther Effect? I didn't know about the name until I started engaging on this topic, but I already understood it. Maybe this is something fundamental you need to understand about this topic. The opposite of the Werther Effect is the Papageno effect, which shows that creating space to acknowledge and discuss suicide while emphasizing coping and making it through is associated with lower suicide rates. But that's not what's going on here. Also, if "permission" helps, then it also harms. You can't say permissive messaging doesn't emotionally impact the majority (because if someone is going to do it, they're going to do it anyway) and then say it does impact the minority. Everyone already knows there's an end. It's just a matter of making the decision. Of all the people who are contemplating the decision, a very small minority should hear the permissive messaging, because to broadcast permissive messaging to the majority is common-sense reckless, and there's no paradox to resolve here.

I could not find a right title, and there are a billions of issues, due to the nature of what I went through and health, I have not been able to find anyone to help me with the issues since birth, and the ideas and solutions I have are mostly destroyed by the inability for humanity or the others; to be more spiritually insightful to get into the root cause, hence it's my responsibility to find a solution, I have been looking into archetypes based on the fundamental notions of some calculations and time, and time archetypes as I had some "chrone" types of experiences, and integral psychology the book creates, a lot of insight, but I feel and notice the doubt of humanity and the weight of that pain. I have been looking for stability with other, but the hypernarccistic expansion of perception and the in-abillity of the social structure of once here once was empathy has turned into a desire for capital money, gain and the denial the money and value is part of love, and the core issue of love. So many, things happend: I still ruminate suicide a lot, due to issues of thought and the pain I have since birth, but most psychologist are stuck in moder-post-modern levels of thinking from problems that stem from pre-rational to post-rational levels, and the pain of correcting or healing myself is awesome, but it's a lot of racist remnants from WWI and the effects of interacting with people here and their pain-body with Rudolf Steiner and Tesla, and other scientist how racist that era was, and how much violence has occurred, and the issue of the Ideation of race itself, d.n.a., turkey and Iran especially, their ideaology, the issue of color, and just my recent experiences. I got banned as I could not handle anymore my "coping" and the issue of being more social to be and get help, and that dragon swallowing you and devouring you etc. I found out that Leo's first name was part of Greeks Odyssee, with Alexander, Dimitri and Leo and the issue of Christ and religion and the whole issue with nature mystecism, the regress Ken Wilber was talking about and more patterns that I was correct, but could not express due to pain, especially as my first name is Dimitri, and I am using Wu-Xing generally speaking I had so many odd experiences and they all are Kriyas, I made to many excellent choices that turned into pure hell and purgatory, from multiple perspectives, the larger whole of what I yearn to say is: I found some answers if I will ever unify my psychedelic experiences and find possible terms and alternative terms or simply nothing to see and experience the credibility I found out a lot about humans; but I really required a forum or medium, so many things technically broke, as I learned and I found new patterns and ideas, but the core issue is the translation to put it into my understanding of Wilbers framework, and the core issues I had in my family, I yearned also to post this publically, as this was the only thing that gave me safety to the pain of the lies and the education of what I experienced with my mother, and her racist attitudes as well as inabillity to empathize due to them, like white liberals need white liberal training as they are in lie, they only seek lust, but can't find the meridian to turn lust and love into the purity of spirit, soul and evolution... most black men and I am partially black and others do that, and that level of commitment and depth goes to the deepest levels of rumi.... I found some answers in terms of order and vision, but the issue of the scientific paradigm and statistics, especially and worldviews since the 19th hundreds has internally not changed for me in my friendships, especially recently they have all been part of that and I had very deep revelations of the nature of spirit, but to read the symbolic holism and integrative hierachy behind it, as well as mastering integral language, as the more deeper you get I am 100% confinced that Lucifer and Ahriman did incarnate from this Paul Check video, and that fundamentally caused the issue with Iran. It's the deepst archetypal hunch I have due to this IW/IR patterning and the synchronicity of the time and birth of my favorite book integral psychology as many answers are applied, I cry so often, I can't even get to the notes due to the level of insights that pattern alone created the notes and last sections or Ken Wilber himself is a very deep IW/IR integrative patterning from BaZi. Science has to advanced into the true spirit of the causal, Steiner etc. to reinterpret that without their statistical bias, and the lack of scientific rigour ever since latin and greek disappeared bothers me deeply ever since I lived here, the lack of integration in that space, especially to let go and cleanse out pain is incredible. Btw, this is the best channel I found for meditation recently, I am very much done with stuff, but I yearn to understand Gödel, Nikola Tesla, Lada Love Lace, and some secret societies and orders, to take the esoteric and see what was exotertically true, and some mathematical allegories eventually, if I can get into 4d space downloads and insights, and the core issue of being a passionate mathematician, identity, and the current issue of our times. I'd like to report I went through so much, this place has been the only refuge I had, when society is utterly crumbling, but integral is building some human space to heal from that era, tbh. I am personally as a German not over WWII Shinzen and others telling me about the traditions as they are afraid they die, and the anger as well as compassion for and with Iran, and I've been using BaZi and Steiner as a lense, as the Wu-Xing, Goethe etc. are interconnected, but to write with that purity and the issue of IW/IR I saw what happens with Wilber, myself and my aunt, God will bend you, God will break you, and your will is your will. YOU ARE ONE. That is the entire issue I go through let alone with my own real names, how far they echo back into eternity, and the issues of how many traditions have realized GOD, has brought nothing back or stabilizing it. The only thing humanity should to is to stabilize god, and reduce violence and heal. The level of commitment and what I envisioned and if it's true, but most issues I had are more survival especially as a lot of trust in humanity has been broken, and a lot of things deepended on this pattern, but it turned so evil. I want, there are a lot of issues, due to success, and the issue of GOLD as well as the issue of beauty and GOD, Goethe and GOD and the interconnections, but I will make this a brief recollcetion!

I agree, but we're dealing with some complex mental gymnastics and self-deception here. Leo's and his supporters on this claim not tightening up on the death/suicide rhetoric makes space and provides compassion for the stuck minority. This is their justification. My thinking was that by highlighting the prevalence of the majority, the cost-benefit would become clear, because it's just common sense. But Leo's supporters on this can't see it. I've since realized no argument would work to change Leo's behavior because this isn't really about making space for the stuck minority. It's about being free to make any statement you want. Figured this out from my armchair, lol. If it were truly about compassion, you'd be like "oh shit, yeah, that makes sense, I definitely shouldn't be saying things like this: "Only one way to find out" in a forum post titled "suicide consequences" where members are venting frustration and desire to suicide and asking questions about the afterlife. Everyone here should be able to look at this and call it reckless and irresponsible. And given the patterns, deduce his rhetoric on this topic is not about compassion. A compassionate person would not act like this.

Does it really matter what the percentages are? If even one individual can be saved by a less lax position on suicide then it's worth it. The problem is it's not 100 percent one way or the other. So there is a dilemma for guys like Leo who teach over you tube. The audience could be anyone. Notice with his retreat there is heavy screening. You can't do that here so you should be much more careful in what you put out since you can't regulate the audience. But ask yourself why he doesn’t just accept anyone for his retreat but he will teach his deepest stuff to anyone. Well..until a certain video was pulled. So he gets it... It's a matter of keeping to that standard.

If you're good at generating and evaluating inputs, inference is fun. If you're not so good at it, maybe you're reluctant. Maybe I can lift your fear (jab + hypothesis + genuinely wanting you to see something you don't) around being wrong and improve your epistemology: "Inference" is not a bad word. It's the most natural thing a mind does. You can label "this is inference, this is not" all you want. But it's not making you any more rigorous. At the end of the day, what matters is not an inference label, but: is the reasoning sound? Being able to generate inputs and objectively evaluate them is what matters. These are two different faculties. You need both. And what is the point of doing all this anyway? To arrive somewhere. To upgrade a hypothesis into a conclusion you'll actually stand on such that it can be acted from. That's the whole point. I didn't give you my entire method for arriving at the 99% ballpark. I gave you something that I thought you might be able to use to generate more questions or ideas that which, upon verification, could lead you somewhere. Here's more what my process actually looked like: First, I ask myself "how prevalent does the majority seem to me?" And I realize that I've encountered the truly stuck minority maybe once or twice and the majority hundreds or thousands of times (direct experience). This generates a hypothesis: the stuck group is a very small minority. It's not proven, but now I have an input to work with. From here, I considered the prevalence of pharma TV commercials that name suicide as a side effect of medications a large share of the population is on, rising suicides across several demographics - including kids, addiction, marital misery, financial and legal crisis, and a few other things I'm forgetting. These are all people NOT in the minority, and their prevalence is massive. So, this is where convergence starts to take shape. Then, I try to resolve it: If I picked 10 suicidal people, how likely is one to be in the stuck group? Not likely. 20? No. 50? Maybe one. That puts me at 98%. Then, I consider the sheer volume of the majority some more and realize it's possible the number is 1 in 500, 1 in 1000, or even 1 in 10,000, but I stay conservative and keep the ballpark estimate at 99% because I don't need the exact decimal to prove my point. As long as the majority significantly outnumbers the stuck minority, then broadcasting permission-messaging at volume to a receptive audience harms more than it helps. Notice I didn't reference any studies here, yet I was still able to arrive at the right answer on my own. You can verify it yourself by having your AI tools attempt to come up with a ballpark number. They'll arrive very close to mine but likely through a different method. If you're going to criticize someone's method, you should probably have one of your own that you can use to point exactly to where their reasoning breaks. And to save people from having to explicate their entire sense-making process, how bout you come in good faith and do some of the verification process yourself, rather than just claim their processes are shit. Also, it would be super cool if you'd stop peacocking epistemic virtue. You love letting people know when they're making "assumptions and inferences", which is fine if they're not backed by much, but it's annoying and comes across like social positioning when you sidestep their reasoning while offering nothing and calling their processes shit while not being able to explain why. I've laid my entire process bare here. If you can show me how it generated a false conclusion, I'd love to hear it. Gonna be hard to do since I'm not wrong, lol.

“The evolution of souls involves a transition from imperfection to perfection based upon overcoming many difficult body assignments during their task-oriented lives.” (Newton 2013, 48) “Most errant souls are able to solve their own problems of contamination. The price we pay for our misdeeds and the rewards received for good conduct revolve around the laws of karma. Perpetrators of harm to others will do penance by setting themselves up as future victims in a karmic cycle of justice.” (Newton 2013, 51) “At the end of every life, rather than having a monster waiting to devour our souls, _we_ serve as our most severe critic in front of teacher-guides. This is why karma is both just and merciful. With the help of our spiritual counselors and peers we decide on the proper mode of justice for our conduct.” (Newton 2013, 52) “The test of reincarnation for a soul coming to Earth is the conquering of fear in a human body. A soul grows by trying to overcome all negative emotions connected to fear through perseverance in many lifetimes, often returning to the spirit world bruised or hurt, ….” (Newton 2013, 63) “The only purpose for being in this world is to discover our freedom. The only purpose to come here is to get rid of all the limitations. And where are the limitations? In the mind. I'm afraid I can't. I'm guilty. I don't deserve it. I'm angry. Apathy. The whole purpose of being here is to rid ourselves of all these mentations that are deeply programmed and are the accumulation of many, many millions of years. Millions of lifetimes. And yet when you release at the bottom line you can go free in a matter of months.” (“Lester Levenson, Hale Dwoskin - Lester Levenson (Sedona Method) Magnum Opus PDF-Lester Levenson _ Sedona Method (2024)”, 23) “And you can spend far more millenniums in the astral than you do here because it's an easier way of life. […] But if you understand what the ego is you can go all the way from the lowest realm that we are in now back to the highest by eliminating the ego sense [“Saṃsāra ends when a being attains nirvāṇa, which is the extinction of desire and acquisition of true insight into the nature of reality as impermanent and non-self.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saṃsāra_(Buddhism); https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/truth_of_rebirth.html; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruits_of_the_noble_path]. When we lose all of our ego sense we are fully realized. We go all the way. We return to being the all. The opportunity the opportunity to do this exists more in this realm than any other realm because it is so difficult that the incentive is greatest in this realm. As life gets easier the incentive to grow gets less.” (Sedona Method) Magnum Opus PDF-Lester Levenson _ Sedona Method (2024)”, 427) “I have said souls do have the freedom to choose when, where, and who they want to be in their physical lives.” (Newton 2013, 203) “Souls who become involved in these tragedies are not caught in the wrong place at the wrong time with a capricious God looking the other way. Every soul has a motive for the events in which it chooses to participate.” (Newton 2013, 219) “Of course, but it wasn't an accident-it was supposed to happen [“Karma is the law of compensation. Whatever a man soweth, …” “Karma is destiny as it determines exactly what happens in this life. We can do nothing in regard to all actions happening. Whatever has been destined to be done by us will be done by us.” “If all our action is karmic and predestined, then our will that directs that action must necessarily be predestined. However, we can conquer karma and destiny. There is a free will, — to identify with our body, or to identify with our real Self.” (Lester 1962, 64–65)].” (Newton 2013, 227) “The idea that each of us voluntarily agreed to be the children of a given set of parents before we came into this life is a difficult concept for some people to accept. Although the average person has experienced love from his or her parents, many of us have unresolved, hurtful memories of those near to us who should have offered protection and did not. We grow up thinking of ourselves as victims of biological parents and family members whom we inherited without any choice in the matter. This assumption is wrong.” (Newton 2013, 246) “Q: We have two children and they’re really different. They desired to be our children and we desired them, right? Lester: Yes. We often choose parents who have characteristics similar to ours so that we can have a constant lesson in front of our eyes. This is why we find parents so difficult sometimes. If there’s anything that I see in you that annoys me, it’s because I have it in me. If I didn’t have it in me, I couldn’t even see it in you.” (Levenson 1993, 236) The knowledge of past lives is the first of the Buddha’s three knowledges on the night of his awakening. ““When the mind was thus concentrated, purified, bright, unblemished, rid of defilement, pliant, malleable, steady, & attained to imperturbability, I directed it to the knowledge of recollecting my past lives. I recollected my manifold past lives, i.e., one birth, two… five, ten… fifty, a hundred, a thousand, a hundred thousand, many eons of cosmic contraction, many eons of cosmic expansion, many eons of cosmic contraction & expansion: ‘There I had such a name, belonged to such a clan, had such an appearance. Such was my food, such my experience of pleasure & pain, such the end of my life. Passing away from that state, I re-arose there. There too I had such a name, belonged to such a clan, had such an appearance. Such was my food, such my experience of pleasure & pain, such the end of my life. Passing away from that state, I re-arose here.’ Thus I remembered my manifold past lives in their modes & details. “This was the first knowledge I attained in the first watch of the night. Ignorance was destroyed; knowledge arose; darkness was destroyed; light arose—as happens in one who is heedful, ardent, & resolute. But the pleasant feeling that arose in this way did not invade my mind or remain.” (https://www.dhammatalks.org/books/OnThePath/Section0007.html) “Q: Still, getting rid of your body isn’t going to help much though, is it? Lester: I’m not suggesting you do that. Until you consciously leave your body, if you forcibly got rid of your body, you would just come back again through the womb and wait twenty or so years while growing up, before starting again to learn that you’re not the body. So forcibly dropping the body would be a very wrong thing to do.” (Lester 1993, chap. 36, 364) “Dr. N: When a person kills himself on Earth does this mean they will receive some sort of punishment as a spirit? S: No, no, there is no such thing here as punishment-that's an Earth condition. Clodees will be disappointed that I bailed out early and didn't have the courage to face my difficulties. By choosing to die as I did means I have to come back later and deal with the same thing all over again in a different life. I just wasted a lot of time by checking out early.” (Newton 2013, 58) https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/truth_of_rebirth.html “Reincarnation doesn't help you if in your next incarnation you still don’t know who you are.” (Tolle 2003, 52) “Physical suicide, killing the body, doesn’t solve the issue, since the body wasn’t you in the first place. You don’t kill your ego just because you stop one particular object from moving. The clear mind sees that even though the body stopped, the mind didn’t, and so there is still work to do, until there isn’t.” (Katie and Mitchell 2017, 135–136) “My cousin once called me at two in the morning, very depressed, and said that he was holding a loaded pistol to his head and the hammer was cocked. He said that if I didn’t give him one good reason why he should stay alive, he would blow his head off. I waited for a long time. I really wanted to give him a reason, and no good reason came to me. I waited and waited, with him on the other end of the phone line. Finally, I told him that I couldn’t find one.” (Katie and Mitchell 2021, 345) “Getting back to the quote, Lester told me we set up our next physical life between lives so that we can overcome mistakes we made last time and to satisfy desires.” (Seretan 2008, “Is everything preordained .doc”) “__Astral Plane –__ The place where we all go to after death if not Free. There we are in a “rubber body” as Lester told me, meaning it cannot be hurt like in the physical world. We see long lost friends and family from former lives. If we have any unfulfilled desires remaining, we karmically must return to the physical plane to experience them.” (Seretan 2004, _Lester and Me, My Unforgettable Conversations With American Master, Lester Levenson_, 57) “As long as there's one desire in us for something in this physical world, we'll come back into this physical world to try to fulfill it.” (“Lester Levenson, Hale Dwoskin - Lester Levenson (Sedona Method) Magnum Opus PDF-Lester Levenson _ Sedona Method (2024).pdf”, 60) ““When a being sets this body aside and has not yet attained another body, I say that it is craving-sustained. Craving (= taṇhā; “Craving or excessive or inappropriate desire”), Vaccha, is its sustenance at that time.” — SN 44:9” (Thanissaro Bhikkhu 2024, “The Paradox of Becoming”, 14 June 2026, https://www.dhammatalks.org/books/ParadoxOfBecoming/Section0007.html, 19) See also `The Michael Newton connection` (https://mega.nz/folder/h5pG3Dia#6K7_dyn22-W5dR9C2MauHg), https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/113610-trump-is-god/?page=3#comment-1751305.

@bazera I am wired to be in the middle of hundreds, thousands and perhaps millions of people. Leading them, affecting them directly, impacting them positively. Watching in real time as I see people’s faces filled up with smiles, and hearts filled with love. And their bodies relax into divinity. I don’t want to say this because I come accross arrogant and superior but honestly, I do deep down feel like I was born a couple hundreds years too early. And I also do tear up from that existential pain fairly often. I even think of suicide sometimes. (Don’t worry, it’s healthy for all of us to think of it sometimes). I would be so happy living in the year 2200, assuming humanity keeps evolving. Just the fact that people would be dancing, and singing on the streets (not performing, not trying to survive, but to authentically share beauty and love) would already make it much more joyful. It’s hard to live in a world where selfishness runs rampant, while you yourself highly value selflessness and try your best to improve at it everyday. In our modern times, we have become so individualistically selfish, that everyone is suffering at a collective level. It’s especially hard when you have so much to give, but people think it’s weird or even threatening, because they cannot receive so much beauty and light. - - - - - Thanks for discussing with me tho, brother. And everyone else too. This is the type of conversation that fills my soul. With normies, I would perhaps discuss 5% of the depth we discussed here, and we could go way deeper! They (my friends and family) don’t even understand what it means when I say that I don’t find anyone to connect deeply with, and that it pains me. They literally think on the level of: ”ohhh you will find once you bump into someone who is also into dancing and doing gymnastic, commercial yoga!” I don’t think I will be finding the people I am looking for, anytime soon. They are extremely rare. Even at the peak of Leo’s popularity, we only got a small handful of people gathered here, in all of the international internet. And many of them are trolls. - - - - - I am reminded of a girl I recently dated. In a way, I prefer a complete airhaid to a ”normal intelligent” person. I recently dated a 23 year old girl, whose mental age got stuck at very low for some reason. The level of our discussion was literally: ”what is your favourite public transportation bus?” Here in Helsinki, we have one of the best public transportations, so most people use it as their main way of transportation. I felt bad for her, as I can see that her lack of maturity and intelligence will cause so many issues and so much pain for her, but while hanging out with her, it was almost like meditation. Zero depth was talked. Literally zero. Just being present. With most girls, I don’t talk depth either most of the time, but at least sometimes conversations get a bit deeper. But with this girl, it was baby talk for 100% of the time, all the time, and she was so happy! So either it is really intelligent and conscious girls, or complete 100% airheads, that are playful, feminine, humble and know their place! There are many idiots out there, who think they are wise!

Of course. I laugh at them so loud that they'd be right to ban me, or maybe they should just commit suicide. The reason they call myself a dangerous criminal is that, a few years ago, my business was growing weed. During the COVID lockdown, I'd drive along those empty, post-apocalyptic highways with the car loaded with weed, stopping at police checkpoints and showing them a certificate a friend had arranged for me stating that I was an ophthalmology laser technician working at a hospital. They'd wave me through, and I'd drive off laughing with evil laugh bwahahaha. I did that twice a week and made a good business The truth is, I loved that job, but the production ,and approached it like an engineer. Later I switched the whole operation over to CBD, which was completely legal and still profitable. Before that, I'd spent about seven years living on sailboats, sailing thousands and thousands of miles. My idea was always to learn enough to eventually build a business around it. At one point I sailed from Venezuela to Spain across the North Atlantic, about 50 days at open sea beginning spring, (stops in Jamaica, Cuba, etc but 20 days no stop from Bermuda) with my ex-girlfriend. She was already my ex by then; we'd broken up about two years earlier, we didn't have sex, we were simply friends. Apparently she didn't think I was psychotic, because on a very old boat, after spending two months repairing it in Venezuela before heading into the North Atlantic with 8 m waves and that, every mistake can easily turn into a funny situation . Before that I ran a dating platform, but entirely over the phone, talking . In reality, it was basically a top-tier telephone sexual fantasy pervert max level , no workers, all free perverts, but the money rained. (That's how I ended up spending seven years sailing) Alongside all of that, I was always deeply into rock climbing and hang gliding under demanding conditions, as a form of mental and physical training, same than serious boxing . But I also was too much into party, drugs, sex. My psyche was unbalanced, but I totally knew where I was from teen, and where I wanted to arrive Before that, I owned a small company installing call centers and office data networks, working with two technicians and an administrative assistant (I was 26) Before that I spent nine months as a salesman for a similar company. Before that I sold houses for four months . Before that I spent eight months in the army (wtf). Before that I worked nine months as a construction laborer. Before that I worked in the kitchen of an Italian restaurant. And before that I lived with my fifty-year-old alcoholic narcissist father and his thirty-five-year-old wealthy, depressed wife, who financially supported him. Before that I lived with my mother, who was Turkish, who didn't even know sex existed until she was 19 y.o but who was deep Now I want to go back to boats. CBD is fine, but you only live once. My plan is to find aluminum sailboats in very bad condition in the Caribbean, boats worth around $300,000 once restored, bring them back to Spain, give them a premium refit, and sell them to someone who's retired and wants to sail around the world. I've already bought and sold fourteen boats at a profit except 2 of them, cheap sailboats, max 30k. The only problem is that I need a hot girlfriend with whom I have an absolute deep connection to come with me. I've told the gods that I'm not going to have sex again until she appears. So maybe I'll end up as a monk. But this decision make my life much more clean, huge difference. Looking for sex is toxic. Then, the fact that my profoundly mentally retarded psychologist sister tells everyone I have paranoid psychosis, even though I gave her the opportunity to study psychology, and has spent years telling to the more or less thirty members of my family (conservative religious) that I'm a terrible criminal and that she's afraid I'll kill her (her narcissist ego maybe she meant), is for me an extraordinary exercise in observing attachment to the clan and the need for social acceptance (honestly was a big challenge very unbalancing) . I genuinely thank her for that. Maybe one day she'll recover from her vulnerable narcissism, and I'll be able to tell her. Until that, just the facts will talk. Freedom and life. Let's die with an open heart.

Sorry to hear . You are a living breathing soul ..so am I ..so I totally feel your pain. and mad respect for opening up . please utilize the healthcare section and the mental health issues section for this situation. Don’t come at it from “if solipsism is true then my suicide won’t hurt others because there are no others “ ..stop looking for excuses to justify killing your self . That’s spiritual bypassing and obviously is completely off even for you let alone others . Write down your physical & emotional problems and make threads in the sections I mentioned. You are completely anonymous. Nobody will recognize you. I hope you are already doing something about it like I would not wait two seconds to go speak to a specialist. I was suicidal at some point in the past and most people were but they just want to sound like they are tough and unshakable but all of that is lies and ego..you are completely vulnerable..you might go to bed tonight and never wake up again ..so live in alignment with the truth ..that is you are vulnerable. So allow yourself to be vulnerable. Cry ..express emotions.. I hope there are people In your life who you can do that with ..that’s all I can suggest for you.

I totally disagree . The suggestion seems to be that Leo should soften his views or totally lie about them to avoid the possibility that someone might misuse his words and kill themselves . Leo’s words alone can never cause another person to take their own life. Leo’s work is fundamentally about pursuing and communicating “ The Truth” (or at least what he thinks is the truth )..not muddying his message to avoid every possible misunderstanding. If the subject of death or suicide arises then it should be discussed honestly and rigorously rather than avoided or distorted out of fear of how a small minority of people might interpret it. You want him to straight away lie about his honest opinion on suicide just so that no one will kill himself ? Nope . It’s none of his business that a lot of people are suicidal here. A spirituality forum is NOT a psychiatric hospital.Its purpose is to explore ideas including difficult and controversial ones. That doesn’t mean people should be reckless or insensitive.. but it does mean that discussions cannot be silenced by the most vulnerable possible audience. Otherwise meaningful inquiry becomes nearly impossible. The forum already makes this distinction clear. It includes guidelines and disclaimers stating that it is a place for discussion..not a substitute for professional mental health care. Someone going on some forum and reading a guy saying “death is love “ and then kill himself is such a cartoonish thing to believe. Who would actually do that ? Do you think people lack basic common sense or reasoning? People who kill themselves do that because they are not seeing any hope or light at the end of the tunnel of their daily hellish suffering.

Yes, and this is why I raised the case of my Aunt who was diagnosed with motor neurone disease. If anyone knows anything about this disease - it is a terminal death sentence. A slow irreversible decline (think Steven Hawking - suffered from a form of MND and very long lived). My aunt has been given 18 months based on her rate of decline. It is very, very confronting to see how quickly she is fading. Unfortunately, she fell prey to many alternative health treatments (grifters) who sold her on cures with no evidence. Burned through immense amounts of cash for it to amount to nothing. She is investigating assisted suicide.

Permission is not promotion. No one would even consider suicide unless they're going through unbearable suffering. And when things gets real, people will do what they have to do, regardless of my opinion or anyone's opinion. Permission also helps. In many cases, the sense of freedom and agency can be the wall between life and death. Would you rather know that there is an end to the suffering? Or believe that you're eternally stuck?

Here we are discussing armchair suicide when there are people buried under 20 slabs of concrete in Venezuela that will most likely never be saved.

I think there is a beauty is allowing people the freedom to do what they want with their bodies and lives. Who is to say that someone cannot be the decider of something like that? Some countries that are developed actually have programs where you can "opt out" in a safe and professionally monitored way with dignity and no shame. Imagine how terrifying it must be do already want to committ suicide then having to figure out a way to do it all by yourself knowing your family and friends are going to hate you for doing it. They do it over a period of months so that it is clear that you are sure about this decision, you do workshops, excercises, talk therapy, but eventually you get to "commit suicide" I also think of people in horrific medical or mental conditions who just want it to stop and have no hope of getting better. Why is suffering through that better than death?

I never said it does. And I never implied it did. How could I even have implied that when I don't even think it? There is a lot of interesting mental gymnastics going on here. This is a different thing. Although it looks like the reasoning is trying to prop up the position I'm arguing against. I'm talking about the megaphone and prevalence of suicide-permission messaging. Would you agree that suicide-permission messaging broadcast at volume to a receptive audience pushes the number up? Because this is mostly what I'm talking about. If you agree with that, then you mostly agree with my position and then it just comes down to a cost-benefit weighting. (Normally I would use the term "analysis" but I don't want to get berated for not running this thing through an actual peer-reviewed process.) Of course it would be helpful for suicidal people to discuss it. Keeping that sort of thing bottled up isn't good. If Leo or anyone else wants to have a one-on-one with a suicidal person and let them discuss it, that's great. I've done it several times myself. I've never told anyone confiding in me about suicide not to do it because I have enough wits to know that's useless. I work it out with them. But yes, I agree, one-on-one interpersonal exchanges where you take the taboo out of it is very healthy. Do the cost-benefit honestly and let me know what you think.

I mean that if you understand my argument, which demonstrates why it's a terrible idea for an influential person to make a habit out of saying things like "Humans have the right to commit suicide.", then you'd see you're contributing to the harm of far more than you're helping. Someone actually concerned with compassion would take this seriously and would need to either say how my argument (which to me seems like common sense) is flawed, or would need to call for an adjustment - realize the error.

@Joshe Suicide is not a philosophical inquiry. It's a torturing experience. You cannot reason someone out of suicide. It never works. But you can understand and contain them and allow their expression of suffering a space to exist, so they can feel safe again, which might lower the chances that they would actually go through with it. It's paradoxical like that.

By this, I meant that they're receptive to reasons for or against. If they're weighing suicide daily, or once a week, or once a month, when they come across Leo or any other influencer who gives them reasons for or against, they're "receptive" to suicidal messaging. The looking can be active or passive.