Heart of Space

Many times I've very clearly stated that I'm not trying to force my perspective on anyone else. I was careful to state that and did so multiple times. Surely you have opinions about whether or not a claim is legitimate or not. It is my view that his claim is not legitimate and I gave my reasons for why I feel that way. Discussion of said points occurred and I even agreed with @vladorion on his last post. If you feel differently for whatever reason, that's fine too. I'm not fighting, if I was I'd be telling people that they need to believe the same as I do.

Discussing perspectives of course. What is your issue with what I've said? Do you care to discuss something on the topic at hand, or do you just want to complain about me discussing something on a forum for that purpose?

The ego doesn't want enlightenment. It wants some fairy tale concept version of it. If your ego knew what enlightenment was truly it would be horrified and sprint in the opposite direction as furiously as it could.

Who was fighting? Seemed pretty respectful on all sides to me. You misunderstood.

@vladorionI think everything you are saying is very reasonable. I take no issue with your perspective.

People who are listening to what Frank says while believing that he is enlightened feel his words hold weight as such, no? Is this not a form of putting him on a pedestal? And if that stuff doesn't matter, do you whole heartedly believe every claim to enlightenment? Or do you have some sort of standard that people have to meet for you to have more certainty over someone's level of spiritual progress? Surely you acknowledge that the number of people who are delusional or lying far exceeds the number of people who are legitimate, no?

Time frame absolutely matters, especially with meditation. You don't see Zen monks claim enlightenment at random stages, like the amount of time spent to enlightenment is determined by a random number generator. Most of the time a large portion of a lifetime is spent in meditation propelled by astronomical levels of motivation and discipline. That's not to say there aren't outliers, but this experiment has been ran for centuries and this is the result. Frank has done three piddly little 10 day retreats. That's it, three. Where you come from absolutely matters. If you spend half your life an unconscious zombie, you are starting further from the finish line. Again, there are outliers, but why wouldn't you acknowledge this as an obvious fact of statistical probability? Look if you guys want to drink the kool-aid because you feel Frank is worthy of being put on that pedestal, then go right ahead. I can't stop you. I just choose to exercise cautious skepticism over such claims in an age of so many bullshit claims of enlightenment. Hell, while we're at it let's validate all the other 20 year olds on this forum who've claimed to be enlightened.

There are a lot of people within spirituality that have clout that shouldn't. In fact, that’s a bigger problem within spirituality than it is in many other disciplines. Too many bullshit artists. Frank is likely bullshitting himself as much as he is other people. Like I said. My perspective, you're welcome to it, or not.

I used to be subscribed to him. I'm very aware of what he has done. I hadn't followed him for years because his 'spiritual content' just feels so full of delusion and there's a ton of better stuff out there. The dude has been on 3 vipassana retreats, I think he should cool his jets a bit. Honestly, it seems he's made progress, but I feel it's very unlikely he's as awakened as he claims. He's also gotten better at parroting spiritual concepts, but he always falls flat on his face once he goes off of the script and makes his own philosophy.

Yea, I had this thought too. Would probably be pretty cool to have one.

I think you're making a massive assumption in regards to his spiritual progress. He's a spiritual person I'll give him that much and he has his own unique path. However, he is a baby in terms of the time frame he's participated in this stuff. Meditation alone as far as my personal understanding tends not to enlighten people in such a short time frame. On top of that, he comes from a philosophy of glorifying extremely unconscious behavior. And on the surface still exhibits extremely unconscious behavior. And even though he intellectualizes his spiritual philosophy with relative competence, he still shows holes in his understanding and comes across as a bit of a spiritual ego narcissist. That is my perspective, your welcome to it. Or not. I wish the guy luck, truly I do.

Frank claims to be highly enlightened. Watch one video and it's clear he's still a clown. He's like 35 and still worships Zyzz and encorporates it into his spirituality. Conor has similar problems. I wish people would just ignore them, they aren't worth your time.

I'm shocked that you would consider giving a pregnant person a psychedelic. Not only would the effects that the chemical would have on a developing baby be unknown, the potential health complications from stress you could cause by them having a potentially bad trip could be not good at all. If I were a mod I'd ban you from the forum for being so dumb.

I had an insight I wanted to share into the fundamental nature of what rationality and science is and why it holds western society in a sort of spiritual dark age. It's fear of insanity. There is an intensely held fear of anything outside of dogmatic and extremely rigid structured forms of thought. It's also why we handle mental health so poorly and the people we deem mentally ill we often demonize. Think of how many horror media paint mentally ill as deranged straight jacket wearing monsters. Western society is so built on fear that if it had gravity light would not escape it. This insight is monumental for me because I had been trapped deeply in the web of rationalism for so long. Some of you probably already understood this. It's truly shocking when you see this. It's one of the greatest tragedies of western society.

The longer I'm on this journey, the more I realize that if I want to deepen my experience of God's love I have to vastly change my life circumstances. It's just so frightening and difficult to just shuck everything you've ever been taught. Nothing, absolutely NOTHING, captures the difficulty and intensity of a true attempt at a spiritual journey aside from direct experience. We are all truly on the greatest hero's journey ever told. To overcome the essence of fear and find the holy grail.

Agreed. Extremely frightening. Most people don't know how attached they are to their basic cognition till it's taken from them. I'm still full of fear of insanity, but I feel I was able to take a big step in letting go of my old rational paradigm. Insanity feels like absolute inescapable hell to the ego.

I think he's genuine in his attempt at spirituality and I can appreciate the work it might take coming from his previously ultra vapid existence. That being said the guy still produces and promotes extremely unconscious behavior. He's packaging his spirituality in a basket of turds. Best of luck to the guy and his journey.

That quote gave me goosebumps.

Meditation is also about committing the long and arduous process of spiritual suicide too. Just realizing presence is a tiny step.

Sure, do you have any specific questions?

I shudder at the thought. I've known some relatively deep levels of existential agony. But hell in more than 3 dimensions. No thanks.

I can relate very much to this experience. As with you my experience with hell allowed me to grow immensely spiritualy. It truly saved my life. I'm glad you pulled through it. The levels of suffering possible are immense, but so is our ability to overcome it.

What form do they take out of curiosity?

Psychic powers are very real and they don't have to be subtle either. I have a spiritual guru that does his work almost exclusively through this way. You'd be shocked at what is possible. It's become a normal part of my life, but I'm still shocked all the time at what's possible. Feel free to ask any specific questions. I have a ton of very real experience with this.

Amen.