Alexop

Europe is so fragmented and their people are so spoiled by their welfare states that they will wake up poor soon. So many people working bullshit jobs that dont bring real value to society it's mind boggling. Trillions of dollars of loss in inefficiency.

They won't say that "men are not masculine enough" as masculinity has become so debated that People can't agree anymore on what masculinity actually is. They will say instead: men are boring, lack initiative, lack drive, lack charm, are lazy etc.

I was thinking the same thing as I watched more videos of his. Yea, I mean that survivor analogy, if it really is real, is quite interesting. Otherwise he is fishy I mean he is a marketer and his audience is a bunch of incels. To be expected.

My friend, you pointed to toxic masculinity while I didn't. We have two big types of men in society: Macho guys: toxic masculinity, manipulative behaviour, lack of empathy, laziness, suppressed feminine side, selfishness, violence, lack of refinement, lack of education, disgusting even(some of them). You referred to these guys here as "the masculine" ones, which I don't. These are a juvenile version of masculinity and women don't want that. Some of them are fun and confident and dare to lead which some women appreciate but they don't want the rest of the toxic qualities. Nice guys: immature, boring as hell, afraid to lead, afraid to express their emotions and thoughts, etc etc... these are the guys who lack masculinity in any sense. Most women dislike these guys but they have no other options in sight so they choose them, because maybe they don't want to be beaten and bullied by machos. The thread is about THESE guys. Machos are so obviously toxic that I don't even care talking about them. Very few guys present a healthy version of masculinity which women want: discipline, personal development, style, leadership, empathy, kindness, courtesy, containment, humour, purpose, drive... I can't imagine an emotionally healthy straight feminine woman who will ever choose a nice guy over a mature, healthy masculine guy. Maybe only those women who were masively brainwashed into wokism or they have some trauma around being led by a man.(ex: daddy issues). THIS version of masculinity does NOT appear out of the blue as you might think. This appears when the young adolescent boy is either trained into it by a skilled masculine man, or he meets massive adversity which will forge him into such a man(this happened to me). Teal explains clearly the difference between niceness and kindness

It's funny how much progressive people study power but they understand it even less than others.

@BlueOak of course loyality is going to hell if all you see in your partner is social status or money or a hole where you need to stick you cock in. There are plenty of people with holes and plenty of people with money. If everything resumes to sticking your cock in a hole or using a person selfishly for personal survival then of course you'll jump to the person with a more sexy body or more money. And this gender blind idiocy only supercharges this behaviour.

Me: X is Y because Z You: well actually C is V because F

Very interesting one.

@Emerald ok, thanks for the conversation, it seems we live in different realities. You tell me Leo, Teal Swan, David Deida, Ken Wilber my personal experience for years etc. all of us are wrong. Good look living in your fantasy world. I give up trying to convince emotional people about inconvenient truths. Doesn't matter how good the argument, it always hits an emotional wall. And here is the proof for why we treat you like children.

Bullshit

Healthy Blue. He also goes to church and is religious. Not any religion, orthodox Christianity, the most conservative, patriarchal and outdated form. To be Yellow he has to be aware of the spiral. He charms you because he is a humble kind guy. He will put Ilie Bolojan as prime minister who is a neoliberal. We have to wait and see his actions. He seems dull, which is not a good sign keeping in mind the macho environment of romanian politics. CTP gave him and equation to resolve and he asked him to send it to his email, but he posted it on TikTok instead which was very disrespectful I could come with a more informed opinion but did not have patience to go through the debates and listen to him. Too busy with Orange/Green/Yellow politics of Sweden. Romanian politics make me sick. Just be careful who you call Yellow, Yellow is a very rare thing that people jump to attach to their favorite heroes. JP used to come with some convincing complex arguments years ago, which might convince you he has Yellow in him. Look at him now, a bunch of Gen Z kids make him look like an idiot.

Bad luck I am romanian and just saw your comment. Nicusor is not even far from Yellow my friend, he is a neoliberal Blue/Orange kind of ok person. Yellow people are far too conscious to waste their life in such disgusting places like Romanian politics. I recommend Tudor Dunks to better understand Europe's and romanian politics. USR party, the pinnacle of progress in romanian politics are Orange neoliberals who named the libertarian Claudiu Nasui as finance minister. Nicusor is a great fit for Romania right now as it goes from Blue to Orange. Though neoliberal politics is not what we need right now, but spiral dynamics teaches us a lesson, you cannot jump stages. I am skeptical that the neoliberals will increase the tax to GDP ratio which is crucial right now.

It starts to crystallize in my head how to behave with these "nice" retards. At least I am mean in your face when I am mean, but they are mean in an insidious sneaky way. Even with their children! God forbid to have such a dad. Just image how much anxiety is instilled in the child with thier passive aggressive comments and behaviours. "My dear you can do whatever you want, you can stay home or you can visit your grandparents, but you know how much they love you and want to meet you" They are the most toxic people you can have around. At least machos are mean in your face not like in gaslighting passive aggressive way. They gather together and make you feel to be the problem in the group. They use your need for connection as a weapon to put themselves over you. "Want love from us, be like us" When i meet a passionate exclusive guy like me who knows stuff and dares to say stuff even if risking to create conflict, I get inspired. But when they meet such a guy they get offended and jealous. They try to knock him down. My conclusion from all this thread: Deal with them politely from a distance. They will come into your life as clients, colleagues in activities, friends of your friends/spouse etc. keep your boundaries when they try to gaslight you into doubting your divine masculine. Keep them at an arm's length, and if they insist with their crap, confront them directly. POWER is the word in those situations. Don't lose confidence and keep them in their place, which is at the bottom of the present group's social hierarchy. Don't hang around in groups where they are in majority. You can get inflicted with "niceness" in the same way you pick an accent, you just wake up with it.

humans are worse than rats. At least rats just shut up and do their pest destructive shit, but we also invent stories about how the destructive things we do are actually good

I appreciate your efforts to convince me but I don't think a society, not a tribe, was experiencing femininity as our Western countries. It never was like this, they were all patriarchal. They had to be in order not to collapse because of the harsh social and geo-political environment they lived in. You tell me we do not have a masculinity crisis makes me even more concerned. A mature woman who teaches personal development cannot see this? Concerning. You tell me that when thousands of women complain about men they are just being unreasonable and hysterical? I lived in both patriarchal and progressive countries and the same shit is seen. Women who just "cope" with men's laziness, immaturity, lack of understanding of how women work, lack of leadership, very boring etc. Maybe you referred to toxic masculinity, that we have in loads, there is no scarcity of toxic masculinity. And this comes from a guy who shit a lot on woke narratives. This is what I mean by treating People like children. Do not assume that they are open to talk anything. Imagine opening this conversation with a stranger and disagreeing. Nobody wins. I get called misandrist,sexist or whatever "ist" or even dumb and they do not learn anything. Most people are "children" because they cannot dettach their personal involvement from a conversation. An counter-argument to them is a personal attack.

I get your point, it is a fine line and it cannot be reduced to a small rule. It depends alot. I want to point out that I assumed too much that people around me are open to personal development and ideas which they are not. Even Leo said to not use personal development and ideas to create connection with strangers if I remember right. But yea, my statement cam be misunderstood and I should not use it like that anymore. Maybe something like: "Do not assume strangers are like you".

Thanks 🙏

Damn, you ever heard of jokes? Yes there are some, but insignificant numbers. The main trend is being a good boy. You don't do that, the majority of the society avoids you. Of course you'll find some sketchy Red/Orange groups

Yes, sometimes personal expereince is important. Especially now with so may grifters who pose as experts on podcasts and social media. The market is so oversaturated with idiots who express opinions that when a really experienced guy comes out, he has little chance to catch too much attention. Anyway, emotional undrstanding is deeper than intellectual understanding. If you don't live through the emotional experience, then you don't get it that deeply. We, men, have no idea how a woman feels when walking on a shady street in the middle of the night or to get emotionally addicted to an abuser. Women have no idea how it feels to have a deep craving for sex and romantic connection and every woman ignoring you.

@BlueOak whatever, niceness come from weakness, kindness comes from abundance. She shat a bit too much on them in the video.

Gabor Mate used to say: sometimes there i no non-painful alternative. If you choose to be authentic, you can get rejected. If you choose fakeness to get love, you feel the pain of not being authentic.

Fixing society is like fixing a wooden house, a complex broken system. You have a toolbox(masculinity), you have paint and a brush(femininity). If you just paint the rotten wood, the house will still collapse soon even if it looks nice. What you first have to do is to remove the rotten wood with your masculine toolbox and replace it with fresh wood, then you can cover everything in hippie dippie femininity. Femininity CANNOT exist in an unsafe, rotten environment. And forcing women to create the safety because "gender equality" bullshit, is idiocy. This ideology actually increases sexism and sadness among women.

Niceness is this: You referred to kindness

I was referring to immature postmodern people in general. Nice guys are not feminine, they are unstable and underdeveloped. Men need challenges in order to grow and they don't get it. They try to ape femininity in order to get the pussy and love they need from those around. Feminine people are fun, spontaneous, alive, even if averse to masculinity. Also important to notice that when I mean "woke" I mean those immature, relatively young and inexperienced people who were indoctrinated with Green values they cannot handle. I don't mean stage Green in general. Healthy Green people are nowhere near as dysfunctional.

They see everything through the empathy lens, of course masculinity is bad if seen through that lens. If all you have is a hammer, all you see is nails. If everyhing you have is femininity, all logic, hierarchical systems, dettachment, exclusivity, individualism, and disagreement is evil.