Forestluv

Because the view is pre-transcendant. All of those teachers and students are within something deeper. Keep digging deeper.

And would Mario need a therapist? ?

Imagine transcending teachers and students.

This goes much deeper than disagreement, me and Leo.

Go deeper to see what you cannot see.

I don’t accept your view of “enlightenment”.

I don’t consider psychedelics to “belong” to anything. Intentions for psychedelics include: recreational, therapeutic and spiritual. No intention is more valid than another intention and one can transcend all intentions.

There is no need for therapists in an enlightened community. Delusion is dissolved and there is no self to treat.

What would a psychologist treat if there was no self?

I lived within an awakened community in the mountains of Peru. There was no need for therapists.

If other areas of spirituality resonate with you, great - go for it. Regarding psychedelics within spirituality, this is a naive view.

So true ?

This seems like an assumption that the sober state of mind is more real than the psychedelic state of mind. Rather than asking whether the trip was just an hallucination, why not ask if your sober perspective is just an hallucination?

That is Orange level thinking ? Sometimes Orange tools come in handy ? . Other times green tools, other times Yellow. Sometimes an integration. . .

I’ve blacked multiple times on psychedelics. It can be disorienting and unsetting when regaining consciousness. Yet, for me, they are not like you describe. They are not like an alcohol blackout. Psychedelics are post-rational and beyond ego - being in control and rational is dissolved whether it is a “good” or “bad” trip. In the sub ego death zone, I have experienced anxiety and fear of harm impulses. I’ve learned that is a construct of my ego to avoid surrender. That which lies beyond the ego has no interest in causing harm to me or others.

I speak from a humanist view.

@graded24 Welcome to the forum! There are plenty of people here interested in learning more about quantum mechanics and metaphysics. It’d be cool to start a mega-thread. Your post is sooo awesome. I need some time to contemplate it and will return with questions.

@7thLetter Immaturity and insecurity

@FredFred Great questions! I’ve thought about this myself. Does quantum phenomena apply at the macro level? We are begging to realize it may at the molecular level. Quuantum biology has recently begun to emerge. Exciting times!

You are assuming the egoic delusional state is less delusional than the psychedelic delusional state.

?

Mu!

I would imagine scuba diving is more dangerous than psychedelics.

Studies have consistently shown that psychedelics are amoung the least dangerous substances to the user and to others. Alcohol is amoung the most dangerous, An example of one such study below. In general, people should be far more concerned about alcohol consumption than psychedelic consumption. Furthermore, clinical studies are consistently showing statistically-significant positive effects for psychedelic therapy. Regarding relative experience: most people that do an Ayahuasca retreat think and feel it was the most profound spuritual experience of their lives. Of course, precautions should be taken when introducing psychedelics into one’s spiritual paractice - yet percautions should also be taken when one adding yoga or running into one’s spiritual practice. Regarding my direct experience: I have drank alcohol over 50 times, I have run over 50 marathons and I have tripped over 50 times. I would put the danger level of psychedelics closer to the dangers of marathon running than alcohol consumption.

IME, spiritual practice + psychedelics has led to more progress in two years than 20 years of spiritual practice without psychedelics. I’m curious about your direct experience with using psychedelics for spirituality.