Forestluv

I was just contemplating this last night. I was feeling really discouraged and was contemplating why it is so difficult to transmit. I've spent a lot of time trying to convey it and looking back, most of that time seemed of little value and was even counter-productive. I often try to communicate things impersonally, yet quite often people take it personally, often get offended and defensive. At times it seems to cause more harm than good. These days, I try to limit it to people that seem genuinely curious and open. I tried teaching SD to freshman-level college students. Things went ok until we reached Yellow. Then it didn't go so well. I would say only three of 16 students were ready / open and started having real insights and mind expansion. The other students were either disinterested, resistant, frustrated, wanted to intellectually debate and fight, etc.

To me, it sounds like you are saying "Feelings are not absolutely bad or good". and then start talking about them as if they are absolutely bad or good. In a relative context, I agreed with the second part of what you wrote. For example, many people would consider anger as being a bad feeling because when they are angry they often behave in ways that most consider to be harmful to others. That view is useful in the relative world we live in.

To me, it sounds like you are adding in a value judgement, yet are not recognizing that addition. Feelings are not inherently "good" or "bad". That is an additional "something" added in. There is a "nothing" prior to that addition. It's not really "prior", yet that is the easiest way for the mind to comprehend it. Assigning particular feelings value can be helpful to the mind-body that at times, yet that is a distinction the mind adds in. The second part I would agree with. Condemnation, aversion or identification to the feeling can cause tension in the mind-body and keep it in a state of contraction.

I've found trying to convert post-rational back into rational for a rationalist is ineffective. I've found it more effective to bring forth their own direct experience as much as possible. Trying to intellectualize post-intellectual just doesn't seem to work for me. It seems to trigger their intellectual mode of being. And as you said, they want rational proof for the post-rational. Generally, intellectuals have a very strong desire to define what qualifies as "proof". For example, they will say that they want scientific evidence or that we must have critical thinking here. I fell for this trap so many times - trying to supply them rational proof for the post-rational. It's like trying to show them that there is a unique foreign language, yet they insist that you only speak in their native English language. I'm like "how am I supposed to demonstrate this foreign language if we can only use English?" I've been working on non-intellectual modes of being to transmit the post-rational. Empathic, intuitive, energetic modes etc. A vibe. Certain looks, eye contact facial expressions, at a certain time dropping an apple, clapping my hands, speaking in a way that throws their intellectual mode off balance. And using their own direct experience. It is very hard for people to rationalize away their own experience. As well, as I developed more and more post-rational experience, a deeper "knowing" and grounding developed. Intellectuals love debate and intellectuals are used to bullying those at irrational levels and going into combat with other intellectuals. Yet once I had this "knowing" I was no longer thrown off by this. It is like being fluent in the post-intellectual and I think it takes years to develop. Now, when I'm with intellectuals they can sense there is a "something". That there is something different present. I can do all the intellectualizing, yet there is something extra above that. And it often boils down to whether they want to expand. An intellectual that wants to debate and defend their views is not open to receiving. It's generally a waste of time in that scenario.

Imo, there is your key. I think this “ego” is having a hissy fit. Of course the ego allows the ego to exist. Why would love and enjoyment disappear if the ego dissolved? Love and enjoyment is beyond the ego. There is love and enjoyment all around. Beyond what the mind can imagine. Notice how the ego says “Yea, but what’s in it for me?” The ego can resist actualization by setting up terrible scenarios of what would happen if it gives up control. Why not BE love? Why not BE enjoyment?

You’ve got some strong persistence. I’d totally want you on my team for that trait.

@Zega Mother Aya ♥️

Sure, for those on the “frequency”. To others it is undetected or appears as static or jibberish. I should depart now. Too much attention flowing this way. . . A pleasant night to all. Sleep well ?

Hmmm, a Turquoise ninja may have been spotted. I’m not sure tho.

Of course it is within the model. There is also transcendence of the model. Transcendence of the story. From these higher modes of being, what you are doing makes no sense to me. I’m just asking for clarity.

I’m not talking about models. That is an Orange level. I’m talking about Turqoise. That is post-model. I don’t understand why you are staying within intellectual models and critical thinking. You can tell me why from a Turquoise level if you want.

Higher modes can be used. Leo frequently uses them for n conversation. Sure it takes some skill, yet most Turquoise-centered beings don’t have much troybke handling it. Critical thinking and debate are low level Orange tools that are so inefficient. I’m confused why you keep using them. Turqoise tools are so much more superior. It’s like trying to cut down a forest with a pocket knife. I don’t get it.

Yet why would you use an orange-level critical thinking tool to address that? There are much more effective tools at higher post-intellectual conscious levels.

Ruh roh. . . I better get on a 5D frequency and head over to the Lizard Lounge to clear this mess up. Thanks for the heads up, Joe. I totally got fooled on this one. I haven’t reached Coral yet.

Wait a minute. . . if Cetus is stage Blue then who the heck am I communicating with over an inter-dimensional Turquoise channel?

Yea, I realize I went on too long. I trimmed it down.

@Paul92 I've found that relaxing the mind-body is really helpful. Spending time in nature, yoga, relaxation exercises, listening to heart-centered nonduality speakers etc. Also, I've found direct experience is key. Too much analysis and conceptualization just made things worse for me. The practices and direct experience were helpful.

@Paul92 I've found that relaxing the mind-body is really helpful. Spending time in nature, yoga, meditation, hot baths, relaxation exercises, listening to heart-centered nonduality speakers etc. Also, I've found direct experience is key. Too much analysis and conceptualization just made things worse for me. The practices and direct experience were helpful.

@kev014 I've been in this space before. It can be hard to contextualize and integrate these types of trips. For me, sometimes the theme of a trip and insights are crystal clear - for example being shown the Oneness of opposites. There is just a "getting it". Other times, it's a weird energy dynamic without clarity. Here, I just try to be open. I've found if there was some energetic something, a frequency, being, guide, lesson whatever - it would generally show up again later. Other times it's just a wacky experience that ends up in a glass jar in the cupboard and doesn't really get integrated.

Ime, I've found that certain types of substances help with certain tasks. Tasks that involve details, analysis, left-brain, "getting shit done" stuff I'd rather not do. . . Here, nothing beats a low dose of adderall. Tasks that involve big picture thinking, integration, left-right brain synthesis, creativity and human connection. Here, nothing beats a low dose of LSD Tasks that involve solo work that involves contemplation, introspection and immersion/awareness in the moment in which insights arise. Here, nothing beats Modafinil. I rotate the three, based on the activities of my day,

I sprinkle a little bit of freebase ontop of a little herb like parsley. Vape at 428 degrees. You may get a similar effect tho. Blissful, without deep awakening.

It's a relative term and I don't associate any relative morality to the term. If I was pressed to answer I would say "separation".

@MsNobody I've found microdosing and meditation to go well together. In the past I would have had no problem breaking the "rule" since I knew I would be stable on a microdose. I figured the rule was set up because they organizers don't want anyone getting into a bad place, freaking out, being weird and disruptive etc. I knew I wouldn't be like that so I didn't have a problem with it. Yet after doing an Ayahuasca retreat, my view has changed somewhat on this. At the ceremonies, the shared energy within the collective consciousness was really important. One person's energetics could alter the collective and adversely affect another. The only rules were that everyone had to drink at least some Ayahuasca and no individual could leave the grounds. This would throw off the collective conscious and adversely affect individual conscious. At first, this seemed hokey to me and I was like "whatever", no big deal. Yet after the ceremonies, I "got it" at a deeper level because I had direct experience with my own individual conscious, the group conscious and other individual consciousnesses in the group. During one ceremony I went into an insanity zone that was horrific. I brought a benzo in case this happened. I reached for the benzo and there was an extremely strong message "Don't do it". So I didn't do it. After the ceremony I told one of the an experienced person this and he looked at me shocked that I almost did that. Not because of my own personal welfare, yet because of the impact it could have on the collective conscious energetic dynamics. I never believed in this type of thing until I directly experienced it. For me, the issue is the collective conscious dynamics and how I may affect it. I have mini-dosed in a deprivation tank. That is against the rules and I really don't care because I knew I would be ok and there was no collective conscious to be impacted. Similarly, I have mini-dosed in social situations such as a concert - against the rules. Yet, I didn't think there was a sensitive collective consciousness in a concert or movie theatre that would be thrown such that altered energetic affect others. For me, a vippassana retreat would be a gray area because it is a highly sensitive collective conscious of awareness and energetics. A microdose might not have much of an effect, yet LSD is also a potent energetic amplifier. I would be more concerned about the effect the LSD has on the collective conscious and other people's individual conscious more than the effect the microdose would have on my own. Who knows, perhaps the microdose would contribute positively to the collective conscious.

I understand. My example assumes the existence of a person. To me, it looks like you have become aware of the illusion. After spending one's whole life in "real", it can be very unsettling to realize "illusion". Yet I think you are going from one extreme to another. I consider this "halfway" there. In terms of steps: 1. All is real 2. All is illusion 3. Illusion is Real and Real is Illusion. For me, getting stuck in "step 2" was really uncomfortable. Once I realized the illusion for real, there was no turning back. I could never unsee it. I went into a tailspin. The problem with getting stuck in step 2 for me is creating a new story. This is why I like the color analogy because I had no attachment. 1. Colors are real (I spent most of my life realizing this) 2. Colors are illusion (I learned this in neuroscience - colors don't exist - the mind creates them in the brain). 3. Colors are both illusion and real I did not have a problem with step 2 because I did not create a story about how awful this was. I didn't start thinking about how life no longer has meaning because colors aren't real. I didn't start wondering how I can live anymore if colors aren't real. I didn't think about how I can never love colors anymore. I didn't look at painting and sunset with depression because I now knew that the colors were illusions. Therefore, I could easily go to step 3. I can look at a colorful painting and know that it is colorless. I know it is just wavelengths of colorless light. The colors are an illusion. Yet I also realize the colors are real. I'm looking around my room right now at all the colors. They are so obviously real. There is nothing more real than the colors I am looking at. How can I say otherwise? It is the most obvious thing ever. It's a no-brainer. So the colors are both illusion and real. Illusion = Real. Now, I don't even think about it. The colors are beautiful and I can fully immerse myself in the colors. Knowing the colors are both illusion and real ADDS depth to my life. I can relate to people in a different way. I relate to animals a different way. We all have unique experiences with colors and it's so beautiful. It is MORE beautiful than when I thought colors were just real. From my POV, the suffering is arising not because of the awareness of illusion. Rather, it is due to attachment to ideas about what illusion and reality now means. Everything you have said so far is extra meaning you are ADDING. Just like if you started thinking how terrible it is that colors are just an illusion. I know how hard it is to get through. This was one of the hardest things for me to work through and at times I didn't want to live anymore. Yet when I got through it, much deeper appreciations, loves, connections arose. There is MUCH more once "step 3" is reached. Indescribable magnificence. We are both One AND Separate. Direct experience with that was so profound it brought me to tears. It is indescribably beautiful. You and Me are both you and me AND One. Love and sorrow are separate and united. Notice how you are dividing love and sorrow in your mind. They are separate AND One. The experience of both love and sorrow as one is among the deepest most beautiful experiences of my life. The illusion aspect is only a big deal due to attachment to the other side - real. One is only a big deal due to attachment to the other side - separate. Sorrow is only a big deal due to attachment to the other side - love. It is the attachment. A coin is both heads and tails. If the mind insists that the coin is EITHER heads OR tails it will not be able to see the coin is BOTH heads AND tails. Right now, you seem to be arguing for one side. You seem to keep saying "Well, yea but look at Heads. Ya, but there is still Heads. But how can it be Tails if there is Heads?". That mindset will not allow you to see both heads and tails. Concepts can be helpful to an extent, yet I found it helpful at times to shut off the thinking noise in my head and get out in nature. Ime the deeper realizations are not intellectual or conceptual and I need to relax that part of my mind for the deeper awareness to arise.