Forestluv

I would consider these to be nondual experiences. There are various forms and degrees. I find them fascinating to explore and they have revealed many awakening., yet they are not “it”. Ime, the most effective way to “enter” a nondual experience is a moderate dose of a psychedelic. This puts the mind-body into a Now dimension in which the human story along the timeline dimension dissolves. A cannabis edible can have a similar effect. Others methods such as meditation, walking in nature, yoga etc may also induce nondual presence. For me, I had many brief glimpses that I never “caught”. After a few good looks at nonduality, it easier for them to arise. I think one key is relaxing the mind/body into deeply relaxed, yet alert, states.

@Faceless is a master in this "realm". When he was around, I did not appreciate his pointers. Recently, I've been reading through his old posts and they now resonate with me. He points to something very profound.

In terms of "awareness", there are many concepts of it lingering around. A soon as the mind thinks one word, it is too much. One word is too many, a million words not enough. The closest I can get is "nothing". What I consider "awareness" is one step removed from "nothing", yet very very close to it. If there was a movie from "nothing" to "everything", awareness is very early in the movie. It seems like the start of the movie, yet there is a "prior" to that "start". . . In contrast, conceptualizing awareness with words and images comes much much later in the movie. If it was a two hour movie, this would be around 1hr. 50min. into the movie.

I didn't use the term "awareness" nor tried to conceptualize "awareness" within the description of that experience.

Yes. And it's hella fun to explore and experience the perceptions of a human mind-body. Trans-human states of consciousness are pretty darn magnificent

Your post seems to capture the essence of the direct experience. Another visualization that arises for me is that I am suddenly transported into another realm, reality, world that I have never seen before. I don't know anything. What anything is in this world. What anything means. Then I try to relax into my current reality like that. Sometimes all the definitions and meanings can partially dissolve. For example, I may see a car driving by and it's like I've never seen one. It's so odd. It's a little moving box with some type of entity inside the box. . . These spaces can be so intriguing and magnificent.

That is a highly dualistic framework of separating beings into categories of "male" or "female". There is an enormous amount of exploration available, yet if the mind insists on two categories - that's all you get - two categories. There are many many aspects of "maleness" and "femaleness" that won't be explored. There is nothing wrong with a highly dualistic orientation, it's just limiting. It's like visiting Paris and limiting Paris to either the Eiffel tower or Notre Dame Cathedral. Nothing wrong with that, they are both beautiful creations. Yet, your exploration in Paris would be very very limited. The Eiffel tower and Notre Dame cathedral is not Paris - it is within Paris. There is A LOT more to explore in Paris, yet one would not have that opportunity when contracted within that dualism. Notice the mind's resistance and desire to stay within that dualism. Stuff like, "Huh, the only pictures I see of Paris are the Eiffel tower and Notre Dame. My friends just talk about the Eiffel tower. I just don't see anything else, there can't be more". . . It's silly, but that's what minds do.

That made me lol.

It seems like you have not yet had direct nondual experience. My sense is your mind is immersed in thinking and interpretation - trying to figure this out and make sense of it all. That will lock a mind into a highly dualistic framework - even if the mind is analyzing and conceptualizing nonduality. Ime, the thinking / analysis / conceptualization is insufficient for transcendence. One needs to go "above" that for the transcendence - because all that thinking / analysis / conceptualization is within a more expansive state of transcendent being. Yet the thinking mind will often resist that because it wants to control the narrative. It will want to stay contracted within thinking, analysis and debate for a sense of grounding and control of the narrative. There is a reference space of "yourself" beyond "yourself". As another not being another. This is just the direct experience. Go out in nature, shut off the thinking mind and observe. Let go of the thought stories and allow a more expansive awareness to arise within the experience of what Is.

@Neorez Thats a good question. . . I wish I had the answer, then I would be an embodiment machine Just a few thoughts about my experience that are appearing in my mind: 1. Conditioning. An insight and glimpse of direct experience doesn't always swipe the slate clean. The mind-body has been conditioned it's whole life to see in dualities and that generally doesn't go away with a nondual insight. For example, "good vs bad", "right vs wrong" and "perfect vs imperfect" dualities. I've had nondual experiences in which these dualities have collapsed. It's an amazingly fresh and beautiful perspective. Yet the next day my mind may be getting immersed into judgements of what is right or wrong "he is too this, she is too that, he needs to do yabber dabber, she needs to stop gibber badder" etc. 2. Part of the recurrent perception pattern is due to subconscious conditioning. The mind has simply been conditioned to see things a certain way thousands and thousands of times of its life. It can take a while to recondition. I think awareness is a big key. There are still thoughts that arise in my brain due to previous conditioning of what to notice in the world and how things should be. I've become much better at recognizing this and letting it go. In the past, I would get immersed into these thought patterns and not even notice it. After days or weeks of being immersed in it, there would be a realization "Whoa, I totally fell asleep into that old conditioned thought pattern". Rather than taking days or weeks, my mind generally recognizes it within seconds or minutes. Occasionally hours. Yet it's been years since I've gone days immersed in old thought patterns. 3. Conditioned thought patterns can give a sense of grounding, stability and comfort for a mind-body. A mindset of "I'm right and he is wrong". Can give a sense of grounding. "This is what's right. This is how things should be". It can feel sturdy. An ego and mind-body will like that. However, this is only a surface level of grounding and stability. It is a cover-up. Deeper down, the duality is untenable. Here there can be groundlessness. If everything isn't simply "right" or "wrong", what is it? Now I don't know. Could something be partially right and partially wrong? Could a person be both a good person and a bad person? At what point does good become bad? These questions reveal uncertainty and groundlessness and many minds will resist that because the ego seeks grounding to protect itself and the mind-body. 4. Get curious. Trying to reject the duality and embrace transcendence into nonduality can create a new duality: that is, duality vs nonduality. Yikes. . . This is a form of going from one extreme to another. Because the mind is conditioned into duality and spends 99.99% of it's life in duality, I find "flipping over" to the other extreme of nonduality to be helpful. Some nondual concepts, mostly in experience. Yet be aware of the minds tendancey to push away what it considers dual and grasp what it considers nondual. There is a lot to explore between the two. Take whatever duality you have been working with - rather than reject it, get in there and explore it. For example, how are perfect and imperfect related? How are they relative? Can something have aspects of both perfection and imperfection? Can something be more perfect than something else? Is it possible for something like a painting to be midway between perfect and imperfect? How does viewing something perfect feel? Go out in nature and observe, is the stream, birds, insects, plants etc. all perfect together? Or does the hot humid weather and mosquitoes make it slightly imperfect? 5. Observe the resistance that arises in the mind when dualities are explored. Allow curiosity and exploration of the unknown to guide you - rather than the mind's desire to create rigid rules for a sense of grounding. Observe how the mind resists and holds on to simple dualisms. Discover why your mind does this. What purpose does it serve your ego, mind and body? Once you discover how and why of this psychological dynamic - you will be able to recognize and release it much easier and the tendency will dissolve. It probably won't dissolve 100%, but even a 20% reduction will have a huge impact. A 60% reduction would liberate the mind-body into a whole new world of openness, exploration and discovery. 6. Rather than striving to go 100% nondual, I found it helpful to have a more practical goal. Last summer, I estimated I spent about 90% of my time within a dualistic mindset. I was immersed within the story of me and what life is. My mind-body was telling me it was too much. I knew I couldn't just "shut it off" completely, so my goal was to get up to having about 50% of my time beingness "outside" of programmed dualities. After three months of practice I felt like I was in this "space" about half the day and it changed the way I related to reality. Each day, I set aside time to simply be Now. To observe things appear Now. To be aware of what's happening Now. At first, that was mostly through sitting meditation. Yet then I could do it while mowing the lawn, walking through the neighboorhood or riding my bicycle. As well, I spent some time contemplating the relationship, nuances and inter-connections between dualities as I described above. My mindset was that of curiosity and exploration to discover - not a mindset of analysis and trying to figure this thing out. Over time extreme dualitstic conditioning began to dissolve and my mind just naturally started noticing inter-connectedness and nuances of dualities. I would say now my thinking/imaginary mind is roughly 80% within space "between" the dualities. Sometimes attachment/identification with a duality arises - for example "I am right on this issue", they are generally more inquisitive - for example I will notice my mind making a distinction between a tree and the earth it is attached to. Then I'll get curious and may ask "Is that tree and the earth really two separate things? Where exactly does the earth end and the tree begin? Could it be an "earth-tree" in which the tree and earth are One and the tree is simply an extension of the earth?". How interesting. These types of exploration journey and be magnificent. . .

@Eric Tarpall You seem to really like filtering people into male or female categories - especially when related to sexual intercourse. I think there is some truth that, in some contexts, the male of a species puts in "extra effort" for sex. For example in many bird species males are brightly colored and often perform elaborate mating rituals to attract a female. In some contexts, I think one could say some males put in more effort for sexual contact. Most females could easily hookup for sex tonight if they wanted to. Guys seem to put in a lot more effort for sex - all this stuff about how to score with women, pick up etc. Yet I think you are taking it waaay too far. A male's entire existence doesn't revolve around sex. The primary motivator of most creative geniuses is not to impress a women so they can get laid.

I had a similar experience in a sensory deprivation tank. I went back to a womb prior to my birth - so everything that came after birth didn't exist. No language, ideas, thoughts, objects, no me etc.

@Preety_India Wonderful question. Yesterday I was riding my bicycle along the countryside and this question popped in my head. I would say the experience was of that spiritual being having a human experience. It felt like “I” was much more expansive than the human mind-body. A more expansive spirit - yet that expansiveness flowed through a human mind-body, There were sensations of breathing, enjoyment, curiosity. It was an experience of a human, not of a chicken or tree. It felt like a larger spirit experiencing through a human body. It was so beautiful ❤️ ?

@pluto ?? ?

@pluto I gave a gentle warning in the thread. To be more blunt: stop doing what you are doing here in this thread. It’s not helpful. Let it go.

I’m observing the process of stress and healing within me. How it is stored and how it is released. Amazing.

For those interested in exploring emotional healing/shadow work, the below thread may be helpful. @Martin123 ♥️ ?

Anticipation is such a curious human emotion. It’s based entirely on the timeline, Can anticipation exist in pure Nowness? What is anticipation without the story line? . . . While I prepared my cat a tuna fish dinner, he experienced anticipation. There was desire, yet I sense more than that. A form of anticipation. Yet I think humans experience it differently - there are more variations and the human story within a timeline seems to fundamentally change anticipation. I’d like to drop the storyline and experience anticipation in Now. I ask the Universe to express this through my mind-body. I’m so curious what may arise. Now I’m anticipating what may arise. So cool. This song just appeared. The first time I’ve ever heard it. So beautiful. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DcsP4TDOcRc

@Zigzag Idiot I think that speaker is delving into deeper layers of conditioning and healing one’s self. He’s got an interesting mix of awakening and personal development. . . And yes on morphogenic fields. I think awareness of collective conscious will continue to increase. I’m coming to realize there is a lot of exploring to do in this area. Like learning a foreign language.

In terms of LSD, a mini dose for me is 30-60ug. Sort of. Yet the way you phrase it is too heavy on the horizontal timeline, which includes desire to change, intention and seeking energy toward a place on the timeline. That dynamic is present, yet not so heavy on the timeline. There is also a strong ISness component within the vertical line of Now. There is a balance. In terms of the human story, my first few trips expanded my mind and awareness more than anything in my life. There where some whacky components, yet it was the nondual experiences that resonated with my mind-body and there was a shift of seeking energy toward that nonduality. Over time, that seeking energy lessened as nonduality and duality became integrated. My dosages and trip frequency decreased a lot. Baseline consciousness increases. So in a sense the psychedelics don’t change anything, since whatever is is. The mind-body gets very good at recognizing it is in a “somewhere”. It starts to become second nature. Yet in another sense, psychedelics do change something - it is going from one dream to an inter-related dream. So psychedelics are needed similar to how a plane ticket is needed to travel to China.

@Aldo I’ve noticed this as well. It seems as a person matures spirituality a humble, inviting sense of humor arises. At a deeper level I would ask if they can boogie till they can’t boogie no more. If not, I would say they are constrained within a particular personality dynamic.

@phllip103 Could you provide more context? This seems like a game of hide-and-seek at this point.

In general, please be aware of the impact of posts with the theme “I’m more enlightened than you are”.

I would recommend 65 keys to a good life

Yes! That metaphor has appeared in my experience as well. It’s cool to see a fellow human being on that wavelength ?