Privet

I did my lil meta analysis of the opinions: Here and here Shinzen tells why meds can be helpful In the topic "I'm enlightened..." user winterknight says that not treating clinical condition only hinders your path In the book "The Mind Illuminated" Culadasa suggest to seek profession help in case of too much distress (Stage four chapter, I guess) Kundalini books disclaimers Leo strongly advocates against meds, but he says he never was clinically depressed and he didn't work with people as a spiritual teacher much, success coach doesn't count Here Benjamin Smythe recommends Zen way of dealing with depression, but I get the sense that he is kinda too bald in his approach, we live in 21 century and there's no need to try to necessarily go Buddha anymore, working smarter is a good idea On an online seminar an enlightened dude told me that yoga helped him a lot to release his emotional traumas from the body and meditate better, he also said that the path doesn't necessarily have to be so traumatic and he wishes he knew that earlier I guess I'll give it a shot and go to a psychiatrist. I think the reason I'm so reluctant towards meds is as always narcissism: I was afraid to appear weak and be perceived as a failure and didn't quit university until I absolutely had to, I was attached to my fantasies about successful life as a musician and I burned myself out and had to give up, and now, I am forced to try meds and give up my perfectionism and that "UM GUNNA HANDLE IT COLD TURKEY BRUH". This vibe is not your bro: /========================================/ I am absolutely amazed by this song, damn, technology made it possible for various miraculous shit to pop up from random places all around the globe. In the first interview on the channel Buddha at The Gas Pump Shinzen Young said that when he was young he couldn't even imagine that the world will be the way it is now, after watching this video I get the same sense about our future. Watch out, ants! The colony is out of control!

Watched latest episode about Spiral Dynamics nuances and confirmed what I thought about myself lately after reading couple of books of Ken and others on those topics. I have very, very uneven growth in my lines of development yet I have no fucking idea what to do about it. I tend to assume that I have to give up control and just dwell in grace and welcome whatever comes, but man, it's scary as fuck, I'm always like "dude, if you're gonna keep doing it you'll end up being a fucking bummer". I tried to get an easiest job I could find as a seller in a Zoo Shop, but in the second day of education I just gave up in suicidal state and said I'm not coming there anymore. I just can't, it's overwhelmingly painful to pay attention and use my mind to even learn easy stuff. Technically I can, with crying, anger and stuff, but who needs such a worker? I have read some chapters in Adyashanti's book "The End of Your World" in which he talks about the energetic component of awakening, he says that this "tired and wired" state is common in awakening process and you just have to accept it as a natural process of transformation of your body adjusting to awakening and releasing it's baggage, it may happen even before awakening, some people struggle more, some less. He says that after that process of realigning there should be way more clarity. He also says that someone came to him after checking for Alzheimer's, LOL, which is very similar to my situation, I can barely remember shit and have absolutely terrible memory lately. Here's what happened to Eckhart Tolle: Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. On the other hand there's Shinzen Young who recommends to take antidepressants and tells that it took him 18 months of therapy with a psychiatrist to overcome his procrastination DECADES AFTER he woke up. I have incredibly addictive personality and the perspective of taking antidepressants scares me as fuck. Also in some books on Kundalini they advice to not take meds when you have Kundalini Syndrome. I'm so confused about what to do, you just can't imagine, dude. Can't meditate, can't work, can't do yoga, can't earn money for psychedelics, can't nothing. Fuck. I'm just from an online Zen seminar that I've been attending for a couple of years (it resumed again after several months, yay), and this triggered shit ton of shame in me, because talking to mature, educated, high consciousness people in foreign language is very challenging and my shame is as always overwhelming, I'm so afraid of what they will think of me that I barely manage to deliver my interesting thoughts which I strongly believe are of interest to them. But in the heat of situation it's like "um... ah... well... you know... form... formlessness...". Here's what my level of development is like: Level of consciousness: don't mean to show off but I think I'm clearly in the transition from yellow to turquoise. I genuinely believe that my life is perfect and I am perfect as is, I am slowly transcending the dream, yet I am absolutely fucking terrible at playing this dream out, I'm just a kid who had glimpses of the absolute that still sucks mother's tit and can't do shit. Hierarchy of needs: gross, just gross. Neurotic conditioning/shadow: I gained a lot of awareness of it over the course of last couple of years, yet understanding your shadow is like 5% of the work, dissolving it is way, way more difficult task. You can easily acknowledge that you have shame-based personality and post on the forum for the sake of validation and attention-whoring, it's whole 'nother story to stop doing it. I think relationships line of development is almost the same as shadow line because without the other there's noone to trigger you and your neurotic conditioning only makes sense in the context of the communication with the outer world which is mostly interaction with people. You don't get ashamed in front of a tree, don't you? Spirituality: several tiny glimpses of truth, too neurotic to stabilize the mind in inquiry for further unraveling. I'm stuck, afraid of fucking up my life and don't know what to do. Shit.

Human evolution in a nutshell: - OH! THE BANANA! - LET'S MURDER THAT MAMMOTH TOGETHER! - GET OUT OF MY WAY, BASTARDS! - YOU GOTTA BEHAVE, MAN! THERE ARE OTHER PEOPLE! - GONNA MAKE SOME BUCKS ON THOSE NAIVE SLUGS! - I HEAR YOU, BROTHERS! - DAYUM, THIS SHIT IS HELLA COMPLICATED! - TRUTH IS MY GUIDANCE! - DUNNO DUDE! I JUST HAPPEN! IT'S PERFECT!

I'm discovering journal therapy. Cool shit. Unsent letters is my fav technique atm. It comes down to this: Pick a person which makes you feel some bad emotions (from present or past - doesn't matter), who wronged you in some way, betrayed, humiliated, dominated, manipulated, abused, lied etc. Unload as much hatred as possible in written form in the most uncensored manner and don't think much, just explode, I mean as uncensored as possible. If you're afraid of what will come out of you during this process, well, congratulations, you lil nasty shitless fucker, come out of the closet! Feel the relief. Pick another person. Repeat. And so on.

IMO self-esteem stuff is quite superficial and doesn't directly address the root problem, which is childhood trauma/neurotic conditioning. Dig deeper.

@winterknight 1) What is the difference between peak experience and permanent awakening that "clicks"? Is it just a matter of permanence, that nothing can hide this obvious fact anymore? Did you have many non-dual experiences before it "clicked"? 2) People say that there's possibly no limit to the degree of liberation, how does your insight deepen when you have already experienced that permanent shift? Is it about being able to experience more and more intense pain without loosing it? If that's the case then how can we call this insight ever-present if pain can cause loss of it? 3) What was your motivation to awaken? To end suffering? Curiosity of your true nature? Yearning towards feeling of completeness? 4) What do you mean by that? How does it point to the Self?

I have the opposite situation. I am a feminine male. I think the best way to deal with that is to stop trying to force the opposite polarity. You can't become feminine by mimicking feminine behaviour, you have to fix the root, which is lack of surrender, attachment to control and fear of judgement. Do you feel ashamed of your masculinity? Can you fully accept yourself being masculine?

I meditated 9 hours on Friday, then 2 and 6 hours on the following days, LOL, not that long. Meditation gives me stiffness in intestines, energy blocks, fucking energy blocks. At the ninth hour on Friday I completely gave up and just lean my head towards the wall that I sat next to on the stool. Dammit, the feeling that I had afterwards was so weird. I felt completely utterly okay about myself, like all my inner demons became insignificant at once, like all the shit that I embody suddenly doesn't matter. A feeling like my chest is spacious inside also accompanied this. Wave of intense suffering followed by equanimity be like (3.29-end): Heed - it commands, heed my will Bleed - it says, bleed you will

Nope. I guess it's more complicated than just that block, I've got lots of stuck energy in my body. Troat relaxation still gives some relief though. I recently noticed that whenever something challenging happens I start to seek for answers in books and internet or try to come up with a theory of how to solve the problem and eventually my mind gets overwhelmed with huge variety of perspectives, I desperately come to a conclusion that no matter how many maps you have you don't wanna spend all your time studying them instead of navigating the territory. There's so many ways to slice the pie of reality and no matter how you slice it the pie is the pie. Mind has to serve you, not to stand on your way. I think it's enormously, enormously important to understand that the territory is always so different from the map. I completely gave up on meditation and enlightenment and don't know for how long. I'm totally devastated and sick of seeking. Even a thought about meditation freaks me out. It's strange but I feel a lot better without meditating. This whole neurotic narcissistic enlightenment seeking is just wrong, it's the best way to set yourself for suffering. Maybe it's time to integrate what I developed during last years onto my day to day life. I think I head towards slowly melting my discomfort around people with the awareness that I gained. I also gave up planning anything whatsoever. It seems pointless to rely on planning currently. I just follow whatever my intuition brings. Planning feels very strange when you don't know what the fuck you are going to do with your life. But at the same time I understand that I don't need to find out what my life should be like and instead get out of my own way and let that shit unfold. I memorize how I started writing music: I didn't seek for anything oh-so-important, I didn't try to find out what should I do, it just happened accidentally, I was driven by curiosity and inspiration, not some stupid narcissistic craving for becoming world class and some so-fucking-valuable musician. In fact, this is exactly what killed my passion for music, the desire to become significant. It's scary, I feel strong desire to get back in control, but it doesn't seem to work at that time of my life. The voice in my head keeps nagging that I should do something immediately, fix everything and blah-blah-blah, bullshit, just a desire to run away from what is. It seems that by trying to observe my emotions I actually trained myself to cling to them. I trained myself to believe that if I watch them hard enough they will go away, while actually you have to watch them as if you want them to never pass nor stay, just slightly touch, like how you look at some object in the room, it's stupid to expect something to disappear by watching it, impermanence is impermanent, if it passes - it passes, if stays - stays. My relationships with family get better and better. There's no arguments and drama anymore. It seems to me that they all changed, maybe that's because I changed mostly since their pace is way slower than mine. I remember that a year ago I looked at them and thought "poor people, it's so sad to live your lives", now I'm completely fine with their level of development, they are perfect as they are, no need to change anything in them. I come up with a lot of ideas for posts but it always feels like it's something weird, some weird shit is happening with my identity because many parts of my personality are a distorted superego shield and I become aware of that. It's very confusing. Many voices and opinions on what to write in my head are constantly battling.

I read the whole book and I think I should remind you that this is 10 stages of Samatha, and Samatha is not non-dual state. Don't confuse those two things. Author states that Samatha is the perfect tool for achieving enlightenment, not enlightenment by itself. The model presented in the book is amazing as fuck for understanding how your mind works.

I quit for 1.5 years cold turkey because I smoked so much I got sick of it and noticed that it causes more depression and fatigue. This spring I relapsed because of the terrible depression. Which is a clear sign that addiction alone is not the problem, neurosis is. When I quit first 3 months were a constant craving. I was comfortable being around smokers and not wanna smoke after 6 months. What motivated me was the strong belief "if I smoke again I will feel like shit" and every time I experienced nicotine withdrawal stress I thought that smoking will only make me feel worse. When I relapsed it actually didn't make me feel that bad, although now I'm close to this point again. They say psychedelics are very effective for smoking cessation.

From here.

When you eliminate an addictive behavior neurosis that causes it surfaces. Then, neurosis can cause arousal problems. If you're into kundalini and all that stuff you may think of it this way: when you quit fappin your kundalini increases and because of the blockages it can't flow thus causing stress to the body that causes arousal problems. I sometimes have the same problem but when I manage to relax and let go of negative emotions my ability to become aroused skyrockets immediately.

@Pramit It's quite possible to feel more lonely in relationships than alone. For me personally it's the case. I recently started a relationship that made me feel more lonely than when I was alone. And engagement is sometimes more effective to heal loneliness since there's nothing to trigger your hidden despair when you're alone. The point I'm trying to make is that neither solitude nor engagement is the answer. You can learn and heal your devils from both. Romanticizing any of those is meaningless. They are equally meaningful modes of living and should both be mastered and balanced. Make sure you don't bullshit yourself you're loner just because it's romanticized in spiritual and creative circles, and because of the narcissism: "I'm so good I better stay alone", "I'm one of those cool loner guys". Sometimes solitude may be an escape from fear of engagement. Make sure you're not running from inability to comfortably function in society and deal with neurotic shit that it triggers. That's why I asked why stay alone. It has to have some clear purpose, either to cut distractions for spiritual seeking or some creative project, or to heal inability to feel good by yourself (which is actually better processed by applying mindfulness practice to feeling of loneliness, meaning to consciously watch your loneliness/numbness/lethargy/craving/whatever till it doesn't bother you anymore, investigate how exactly you feel without interaction and what is the reason behind it; is that because you feel lonely?; or ungrounded?; or crave for stimulation of some sort?). I also experience this lethargy when I don't interact with people for a long time, the reason for good feeling when you talk to people is that it makes you more grounded and present, you have to move out of your head and listen, engage. Try long walks outside for several hours. Or just go alone for some activities that you normally would do with someone. Find something that can ground you and provide with quality stimulation: creative project, mindful cleaning of your room, cooking, stuff that you procrastinated on for months like installing helpful apps on PC, deleting garbage files, fixing something, reading, journaling, systematization of your goals, activities, problems, the list can go on forever. Don't torture yourself with the level of boredom you can't handle yet (unless you are shitless spiritual seeker, has to be done adequately too though). If you're so much into solitude you can try to seek for a job that will force you to stay alone. For example a security worker on some tourist base in non-tourist season away from people or something alike. I guess the answer is to get creative and come up with interesting shit. There's more to solitude than plain suffering.

What is the purpose of your solitude? Why stay alone?

In the "Integral spirituality" Ken Wilber lists the stages: gross, subtle, causal, witnessing, nondual. Of course the map is not the territory so it's just an orientation. The process is gradual with quantum leaps. Even when you have the non-dual experience there's a lot to grow. Also watch the first part of the interview of Shinzen Young on the channel "Buddha at The Gas Pump". They cover this topic.

Sorry for your problem. Mu!

https://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3296 It seems that I have the energy block described in the link above. I practice relaxing of my troat that is recommended there for two days and it seems to work. I've been really stuck in my SDS during last week and many times before, hope this is the issue. Internet says that blockage in the troat chakra may be related to all kind of things that I have like social anxiety, problems with wording during speaking, fear of defending my position, fear of self-expression. Yesterday when I started experimenting with this throat thing I felt an overwhelming relief right to the level of laughter. I started farting afterwards and my digesting system felt like it activated and started working better and I had a better appetite, slower digestion is also mentioned in the symptoms of the block. I have just meditated the whole hour on that chakra and it feels like it affects the heart one as well. I've had feeling of joy and love during meditation at times when I managed to let go of tension and focus on the chakra. Even now as I'm writing this I noticed tightness in my throat and let it go and it feels better. I'll keep testing that.

"Psychedelics is an effective way of curing depression". How is that statement orange? How would you make it yellow? Or "vacuum cleaner is an effective tool for cleaning your carpet". What does that have to do with the SD stage? This is just another perfect example of applying spiral dynamics in the wrong place. Can't wait when this forum will recover from this spiral plague. People try to describe by this theory everything.

I see many people do that mistake of mixing those things together and not getting the real relationships of them one to another. Spiral dynamics: evolution of your values. Success: sign of effectiveness in some endeavor. Maslow's pyramid: hierarchy of needs. People commonly think that success is how you overgrow spiral dynamics stage orange. People commonly think that progress through spiral dynamics stages is how you satisfy your needs according to Maslow's hierarchy. Both assumptions are incorrect. Here is how success looks in different stages of SD (very stereotypical): Red - a drug cartel lord Blue - a communist party secretary Orange - a CEO Green - a Green Peace CEO Yellow - a sage Turquoise - a spiritual leader The progress through stages comes from your insights about what different things mean for your well-being. From exhausting previous worldview. From realizing that the previous set of values won't make you satisfied. Here are very stereotypical examples of the transition: You turn from red to blue when you realize that stealing and robbing is not necessary and ineffective You turn from blue to orange when you realize that too much discipline is not necessary and ineffective You turn from orange to green when you realize that more material success is not necessary and ineffective You turn from green to yellow when you realize that more love and compassion is not necessary and ineffective You turn from yellow to turquoise when you realize that the mind and thought is not necessary and ineffective Here's how Maslow's hierarchy relates to spiral dynamics: as you progress through stages your top value becomes the next thing in the Maslow's pyramid, and in a sense your pyramid is limited in height by this need that is the top value in your SD stage. But! It doesn't mean that you transcend spiral dynamics stages by SATISFYING this need, you transcend it by REALIZING what that need really means to you. You can become interested in self-actualization (one of the top needs in the pyramid) BEFORE you have achieved material success. The integration of each stage in my opinion comes about the level to which you overgrow the previous stage' worldview. For example, a corrupted blue is the one who hasn't fully overgrown stage red. A preaching green is the one who hasn't fully overgrown stage blue. It seems that this is how shadow works: what shadow is is the hidden amount of previous stages that you haven't overgrown and that relates to your relationships with people. Imagine a one who is overreactive/control freak/very anxious - he just haven't overgrown and exhausted the safety need fully when he was young and didn't feel safe with his parents, meaning it's a hidden amount of beige/purple in his psyche. Again, SATISFYING needs has nothing to do with progress on spiral dynamics, REALIZING what your new top need is - does. This is indeed oversimplification of all the theories. But to me it seems as a very convenient connection of those to PERSONAL development, since spiral dynamics is mostly a study about masses.

I guess we can distinguish a "long sit" and SDS. SDS is a technique of meditation by itself. The idea of SDS is to make yourself very uncomfortable by sitting for long and learn to let go of suffering caused by that pain of impatience and physical discomfort. In my experience anything below 1h can't be called SDS for most of people. While a long sit is when you take a technique (for example self-inquiry) and maintain in during a long period of time. The truth is that if you sit long it's often very difficult to maintain self-inquiry technique. Most of the time you will spend on surrendering to the pain. Unless you have hundreds/thousands hours behind your back and you have complete physical pliancy.

@Tony 845 I had psychosis-like state when I did 3-6 hour's a day for a couple of weeks and relapsed nofap after 22 day nightmare streak, and it was mostly related to nofap, I guess all my testosterone suddenly aromatized into estrogen because of the relapse and I got some real hormone toxicosis + the enormous ego backlash because of lots of meditation and shamanic breathing. Don't worry, you seem to be more responsible.

In my experience the way you utilize sexual energy by just doing what you do. When you have a lot of sexual energy you have better concentration, intellectual abilities, short term memory and plenty of motivation. But! If there's a lot of neurosis, ADD and other stuff the energy fuels them as well. So a good answer to your question would be to channel your energy to alleviating neurosis so you have more energy available for the right stuff. I guess in a sense a good way of thinking about energy is "energy = available amount of effort". If you have a lot of neurosis effort gets scattered by it, you try to cover neurosis by efforting on petty egoic pleasures. In the other sense energy is the craving for what can make you happy/complete, and again it gets scattered by what ego thinks can make you happy. What can make you ultimately complete?

You cannot ascribe a quality to consciousness. Any activity of the self is an illusion. Because it just happens spontaneously. An action arises and the sense of being in charge of that action is illusiory. Because who is aware of the arising action? Do you generate your thoughts or do they appear by themselves? What is the source of thoughts?

https://youtu.be/-_mppU0j58c https://youtu.be/XBItqGFYVSI I think in those videos you can hear couple of very interesting points.