Hardkill

What's your take on Democrats needing to use the same kind of hardball tactics as that of the Johnson Treatment like during the days of FDR, Truman, and Johnson? Yes, it is indeed easier to pander to people's ignorance, fear, and hatred than to persuade them through rationality and compassion for others who aren't like them. However, you can't convincingly argue that Democrats and progressives don't need to work on seriously changing their messaging strategies, which have become less effective since the early 2000s compared to the more impactful messaging of the past, particularly during the progressive era of the early 20th century. Plus, Democrats have to get rid of all of the useless elite consulting class that for decades has cost Democrats way too many elections from the local level to the national level. I really think that these so called top Dem strategists like Axelrod, Carville, and Jen O'malley Dillon are all through. We need fresh new vigorous blood with a thirst for no-holds barred fighting in the political arena and are much more tech savvy with all of the new Age digital communication out there. The DNC chair needs a fresh new liberal warrior to run the committee.

@Husseinisdoingfine Ohhh......Damn........After reading that whole manifesto, I am now seriously reconsidering my view of him. If everything he said about the pain that he and his mother have been going through was the truth, then I deeply empathize with him and his family. But I thought he came from a prominent wealthy family. Couldn't he and his family still have found a viable medical way to better cope with the pain they've been dealing with? Also, he still could've used the pain he and his family are going through as an opportunity to bolster a serious non-violent movement towards holding the healthcare industry more accountable.

I wonder if this means anything or if it will really lead to anything significantly positive:

Mangione is so incredibly arrogant that he must've thought that he is some kind of hero or angel sent down from the heavens by God to kill the corporate elites all in the name of justice or for the greater good of the nation. It's a real damn shame. This guy could've been a real hero if he had used his intellect, work ethic, communication skills, and looks to help inspire and possibly help build a non-violent widespread movement to take on corporate greed like Sanders, AOC, and other progressives like them have been trying to do for years.

This is war. Right now, Democrats and progressives are losing the messaging war. More importantly, millions of Americans are now going to be hurt so terribly and lose their rights.

But it worked back then and it was all truly for the good of the country. Besides, think about one big reason why Trump won the presidency twice. Even though Trump is utterly incompetent and never truly cared at all about anybody but himself, he still effectively PORTRAYED himself as a fighter who is willing to break norms and defy the institutions of our country for the people. People in our country are starving for someone who won't just talk like Trump, but will also actually fight like hell for them, like LBJ did even that leader goes against certain principles or rules. Being a big softie with honor doesn't work a lot of times. Sometimes you have to do whatever it takes to survive and thrive big, even if it means doing something that goes against your own morals:

The point is that Democrats got to go back more to the old days when they played hardball. Look at how Lyndon Johnson, one of the most progressive Democrats in US History, used hardball tactics during his time:

There's absolutely no excuse for killing the CEO. However, the killer claimed to do it for political reasons. Nevertheless, this Luigi guy needs to be locked up in a mental institution. He very likely hasn't been properly diagnosed with a severe psychological disorder yet.

Wait a minute.... He doesn't look that buff in this photo:

Part of what you’re saying is true, but OP is right. Democrats have been terrible at messaging for decades. They used to be masters at it when the New Deal coalition was around. Examples of top Democratic slogans back in those days were: FDR’S New Deal Truman’s Fair Deal JFK’s New Frontier LBJ’s Great Society They also used the bully pulpit far more frequently to get their messages across much more consistently. Actually, Bill Clinton’s Bridge into the 21st century slogan was strong. Though Clinton himself didn’t use the bully pulpit forcefully enough. Obama’s Hope and Change fully resonated powerfully with Americans. Yet, he hardly used the bully pulpit to push his liberal agenda because he was too afraid of being perceived as being “too partisan.” Biden couldn’t communicate well enough for obvious reasons. Not to mention that his slogan “Build Back Better” didn’t make sense and was boring. Corporate Democrats and progressives still to this day can’t come up with a set of fiery cohesive messages that represent the party’s agenda. Plus, Democrats for decades generally haven’t had as much of a spine as Republicans do, which is why Democrats are often too afraid to say anything that might sound too offensive or come off as “too far to the left” for any group of people within their coalition. Plus, the party has to cater to too many moderates who are just too disaffected to fight for what’s right for our country and Liberals/progressives sadly make up the smallest percentage of voters in the country. Republicans have a much more homogeneous coalition of voters, most of whom are racist white Christians with intense religious dogma and are addicted to hyper-capitalism. That’s why virtually all of them firmly believe in protecting all white American traditions and the rich at all of costs out of fear of that “our country is dying because of those radical left commies are destroying it!” They no longer have to worry about winning over moderates because of how far to the right the whole GOP has gotten, which sadly is still working for them.

We probably shouldn't. George Washington was right when he said that having a duopoly in politics was a mistake. I wish we could have a multi-party system like in Canada, but of course that's never going to happen for the foreseeable future either.

There would be much less of a difference in voting for either party just like how similar the parties were during the mid-1900s. Maybe that could heal the country from the terrible divisions in our country while accelerating the destabilization of our existing system until the country is forced to radically transform into a more progressive country.

It's the only thing that has ever worked in the past ever since big money in politics corrupted the whole political system. I frankly don't see the Democratic leadership moving to the left anytime soon. If anything they might be more inclined more and more and more back to the center like what happened after George McGovern's failed presidential campaign in 1972. I hope I am wrong.

I think we may also need to be as racist and xenophobic as the Republicans are while running on either more economic populism or more pro-corporatism.

I don't see how those seeds will ever grow in our lifetimes.

It worked in the 90s and it worked during Obama's presidency; albeit Obama was more of a liberal Democrat than Clinton was.

Yeah, like should Carville, Schumer, Pelosi, the Obamas, Manchin, and the Clintons, be like: "SHUT UP Bernie and AOC! You guys have done enough damage to our party! None of you have ever represented what the country really wants! All of you Greenpeace hippies with all of your pie-in-the-sky ideas never worked and are never going to work for us substantively or politically! Everything you touch turns to shit! Most of you guys can't even win elections! You either move more to the middle with us or your political careers will be over!"

Sorry, I am not just trying to sound doom and gloom. I am just trying to understand all this from both a pragmatic and rational viewpoint. Do you think that Bernie's movement was a big mistake and should the Democratic party just reject the progressives and their ideas and just go back to full-throated centrism like Bill Clinton in the 90s moving forward from a strategic viewpoint? If I am not mistaken, haven't you been implying that Democrats should run more on centrist ideas?

It looks like the police have caught the killer, thanks to a McDonald's employee who called the police after the suspect was seen at the restaurant: https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/brian-thompson-unitedhealthcare-death-investigation-12-9-24/index.html

You argue that America will never be ready to move beyond neoliberalism and that it's a mistake to keep attacking centrism and centrists. I get the point you're making, especially considering that Trump just got elected president again, how much the country will likely regress during the next four years under him, and the great long-term damage he will do to this country, affecting generations to come. You say that Trump's second term will cause the federal courts to shift even further to the right and that this shift will likely remain in place for decades to come. Therefore, the federal courts may end up blocking and undoing every progressive legislation and executive order enacted during the next 3 or 4 decades or so. Then again, I know you're still a progressive at heart and still advocate for promoting progressive policies wisely. So, then should all progressives just completely surrender to both conservatism and centrism for say the next 10 to 50 years? Should the Democratic party move back to the center or just stop moving more to the left??

Maybe the Democrats might’ve won if Harris ran more to the left, but you don’t know that for certain. Again, the primary obvious factors that cause Harris and the Democrats to lose were the explosion of unprecedented misinformation/internet brainwashing, Dems’ faulty media strategy in a fractious media environment world wide anti-incumbent over inflation and the establishment, racism, misogyny, xenophobia (especially after the historic immigration surge under Biden and the Democrats), Harris having run a very late and short campaign, and less party unity amongst Dems than we thought. I don’t see how a much stronger and more talented candidate than Harris could’ve defeated Trump and his party. The only way the Dems could’ve had a better shot was having a much better media strategy in this new Age media environment.

Vlad says that it probably will get worse for the country like it did for Libya after the fall of Gaddafi or like what happened to Iraq after the fall of Saddam Hussein:

No, I get that, but you've been saying that there has been a backlash against society due to the excessive amount of progressive attacks on neoliberalism and centrism. So, do you think for the time being that progressives and Democrats should stop trying to run on a more progressive platform for the next few decades given where we are at and what's going to happen to the whole system even after Trump himself is gone? Do you think that the Overton window will shift back more to the right? Should the platform of the Democratic party as a whole move a lot more back to the center like during Bill Clinton's presidency in the 1990s or move somewhat back to the center, but still be liberal overall like during Obama's presidency? Or should they just stick with being as left-wing as the party has become now and wait for another real chance to implement more of the same kind of progressive-leaning policies someday? Or should the Democratic party actually keep incrementally shifting more to the left as time goes on in the hopes of being able to implement an even bolder progressive-leaning agenda whenever they get a real shot to do so in the future?

He could become the most dangerous radical right-wing FBI director in US History if confirmed by the Senate.

I worked with ChatGPT on coming up with a pretty detailed breakdown of the US political spectrum 1. Far-Left/Radical: This segment includes individuals and groups advocating for significant social, economic, and political change. They may support policies such as universal healthcare, free higher education, wealth redistribution through taxation, environmental regulations, and social justice initiatives. Some far-left groups may advocate for socialism or even more radical ideologies. Examples of Ideologies: Revolutionary socialism, anarchism, communism, libertarian socialism including hardline anarcho-syndicalism and hardline social anarchism, and extreme left-wing populism. Examples of Groups/Organizations: Socialist Alternative, Revolutionary Communist Party, USA, Antifa, TYT (after they became vitriolic), Secular Talk (after it became vitriolic), Majority Report (though a bit more reasonable than TYT, Secular Talk, and other progressive YT channels), Vaush (also a bit more reasonable than TYT, Secular Talk, and other progressive YT channels), and Rational National (before it became vitriolic). Examples of Individuals: Angela Davis (activist and former member of the Communist Party USA), Richard Wolff (Marxist economist and advocate for worker cooperatives), Jill Stein, Rashida Tlaib, Infrared (Haz), Eugene V. Debs., and Norman Thomas. Left-wing/Progressive: Progressives advocate for social, economic, and political reform to address issues such as income inequality, healthcare access, environmental protection, and social justice. They support policies like Medicare for All, tuition-free public college, a Green New Deal, criminal justice reform, and LGBTQ+ rights. Progressives can vary in their positions from center-left to left-wing, depending on specific policy preferences. Examples of Ideologies: Democratic socialism, social democracy, progressivism, pragmatic variation of anarcho-syndicalism, left-wing libertarianism, left-wing populism, and left-wing Independents. Examples of Groups/Organizations: Abolitionist movement, civil rights movement, Knights of Labor, 19th century People's Party, People's Party (1971), People's Party (formed in 2017), Democratic Socialists of America (DSA), Center for American Progress, other left-wing think tanks, Socially Responsible Investing (SRI) Networks, Worker Cooperatives and Employee-Owned Businesses, Community Development Financial Institutions (CDFIs), Sustainable Business Networks, Social Enterprise Networks, and other left-wing business networks, Justice Democrats, Sunrise Movement, UAW, Rational National (before it became vitriolic), Democracy Now!, Jacobin, Current Affairs, The Intercept, TYT (before they became vitriolic), Secular Talk (before it became vitriolic), Majority Report, Vaush, Pod Save America, Michael Moore Podcast, Actualized.org. Examples of Individuals: Thaddeus Stevens, Frederick Douglass, Radical Republicans such as Ulysses S. Grant, William Jennings Bryan, Teddy Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson, FDR, MLK, Malcolm X, Lyndon B. Johnson, Bernie Sanders (U.S. Senator and democratic socialist), Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (U.S. Representative and progressive advocate), Elizabeth Warren (U.S. Senator and progressive Democrat), Sherrod Brown, John Fetterman, Ruben Gallego, Jamaal Bowman, Ro Khanna, Katie Porter, Barbara Lee, Ilhan Omar, Pramila Jayapal, David Pakman, Brian Tyler Cohen, IRI, Destiny, Michael Moore, Leo Gura, Noam Chomsky, Paul Krugman, Joseph Stiglitz, Mark Zandi, Ron Klain, and Shawn Fain. Center-Left/Moderate Liberal/Liberal: This group occupies a more centrist position, advocating for pragmatic solutions that balance progressive goals with fiscal responsibility and market-based approaches. They may support policies like a public option for healthcare, moderate tax reforms, and incremental changes to address social issues. Centrist Democrats often emphasize bipartisanship and compromise. Liberals typically emphasize a balance between individual rights and the role of government in addressing social and economic issues. They often advocate for reforms within the existing political and economic systems, supporting policies such as expanding access to healthcare through private or public means, promoting incremental changes to address social inequalities, and favoring market-based solutions alongside government intervention. Examples of Ideologies: Liberalism, pragmatic progressivism, center-left populism, and left-leaning Independents. Examples of Groups/Organizations: Progressive Policy Institute, Center for American Progress, other center-left think tanks, more moderate factions within the Democratic Party, labor unions, the Kennedy family (except RFK jr.), the Warren Court, Keynesian economics, New Keynesian economics, Social Venture Network (SVN), B Lab, Conscious Capitalism, Aspen Network of Development Entrepreneurs (ANDE), Corporate Responsibility Association (CRA), and other center-left business networks, MSNBC. Examples of Individuals: Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe, Ulysses S. Grant, Samuel J. Tilden, James Garfield, Teddy Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson, FDR, Truman, JFK, Lyndon B. Johnson, Jimmy Carter, Walter Mondale, Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden (President of the United States), Kamala Harris (Vice President of the United States), Pete Buttigieg (Secretary of Transportation and former presidential candidate), Al Gore, Chuck Schumer, Dick Durbin, Sherrod Brown, Raphael Warnock, Jon Ossoff, Nancy Pelosi (one of the greatest US Speakers of the US House in US history), Samuel Rayburn (also said to be one of the greatest Speakers of the US House in US history), Jim Clyburn, Adam Schiff, Alex Padilla, Gavin Newsom, Gretchen Whitmer, Josh Shapiro, Wes Moore, Tim Walz, J.B. Pritzker, Justice Elena Kegan, Justice Sonia Sotomayor, Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson, Jack Smith, John Maynard Keynes, Jason Furman, Larry Summers, Paul Krugman, Nouriel Roubini, Mark Zandi, Claudia Sahm, Paul Volcker, Timothy Geithner, Janet Yellen, Rob Rubin, Gene Sperling, Steve Rattner, Brian Deese, Ron Klain, Lael Brainard, Jack Lew, Antony Blinken, and Eric Holder. Centrist/Moderate: Centrists prioritize pragmatism and moderation, seeking to find common ground between left and right-wing perspectives. They may support a mix of progressive and conservative policies, depending on the issue, and generally prioritize compromise and cooperation over ideological purity. Centrists often value stability and incremental change over radical reforms. Example of Ideologies: Pragmatism, moderation, bipartisanship, political Independence, centrism-populism, and possibly extreme centrism. Examples of Groups/Organizations: New Democrat Coalition, Blue Dog Coalition, other conservative Democrats, Republican Main Street Partnership, Rockefeller Republican, other moderate and liberal Republicans left today, Independents, Third Way, Neoliberals, Bipartisan Policy Center, No Labels, Problem Solvers Caucus, CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS, New York Times, The Washington Post, NPR, and the Stone Court. Examples of Individuals: George Washington, John Quincy Adams, Andrew Jackson, Martin Van Buren, William Henry Harrison, John Tyler, James K. Polk, Zachary Taylor, Abraham Lincoln, Rutherford B. Hayes, Eisenhower, Richard Nixon (was in many ways the last liberal president in policy before Obama), Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, Al Gore, Joe Lieberman, Ross Perot, Doug Jones (former U.S. Senator known for bipartisan approach), Jon Tester, Susan Collins (U.S. Senator known for moderate positions), Larry Hogan, Joe Manchin (U.S. Senator known for his very bipartisan stance and very heavy influence from corporate donors) and Kyrsten Sinema (known for her extreme bipartisan stance, lack of transparency, and very heavy influence from corporate donors), Josh Gottheimer, Abigail Spanberger, Jerome Powell, Ben Bernanke, Olivier Blanchard, Rob Rubin, Gene Sperling, Steve Rattner, and Merrick Garland. Center-Right/Moderate Conservative/Conservative: This segment of the spectrum advocates for limited government intervention in the economy, fiscal conservatism, and traditional social values. They may support policies such as lower taxes, deregulation, free-market healthcare solutions, and a strong national defense. Moderate conservatives may be more open to compromise on social issues like same-sex marriage and immigration reform. Examples of Ideologies: Conservatism, moderate Republicanism, center-right populism, right-leaning Independents Examples of Groups/Organizations: Republican Main Street Partnership, Rockefeller Republican, Blue Dog Coalition, other conservative Democrats, American Enterprise Institute, other center-right think thanks, US Chamber of Commerce, and other center-right business networks, The Ripon Society, the Vinson court, the Burger Court, the Rehnquist Court, the Roberts Court (before Ruth Bader Ginsburg passed away and got replaced by Amy Coney Barrett), and some of the GOP Establishment. Examples of Individuals: John Adams, Millard Fillmore, Franklin Pierce, Chester A. Arthur, James Blaine, Benjamin Harrison, Grover Cleveland, William McKinley, William Taft, Herbert Hoover, Dwight Eisenhower, Richard Nixon (also began the War on Drugs and the Southern Strategy), Gerald Ford, Nelson Rockefeller, George H.W. Bush, Joe Manchin, Kyrsten Sinema Ben Sasse, Colin Powell, John McCain, Adam Kinzinger, Mitt Romney (U.S. Senator known for moderate conservatism), Larry Hogan, Lisa Murkowski (U.S. Senator known for independent streak), Charlie Baker (Governor of Massachusetts and moderate Republican), Chris Christie, Josh Gottheimer, Hank Paulson, Jerome Powell, Jeremy Siegel (economist), Chief Justice Roberts, and Justice Brett Kavanaugh. Right-wing/Conservative/Traditionalist: Conservatives generally prioritize individual liberty, free-market principles, and traditional social values. They advocate for limited government, lower taxes, deregulation, and a strong national defense. They may oppose progressive policies like affirmative action, gun control, and government-run healthcare. Socially, they often support traditional family values, religious freedom, and stricter immigration policies. Examples of Ideologies: Conservatism, fiscal conservatism, free-market capitalism, traditional values, right-wing libertarianism, right-wing populism, and right-wing Independents. Examples of Groups/Organizations: Heritage Foundation, Cato Institute, Hoover Institute, Manhattan Institute for Policy Research, Family Research Council, Club for Growth, other conservative think tanks, most of the GOP Establishment, the Roberts Court (currently), the Hughes Court, US Chamber of Commerce, and other center-right business networks. Examples of Individuals: James Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, Warren G. Harding, Calvin Coolidge, Ronald Reagan, Donald Trump, John Bolton, George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Mike Pence, Ron DeSantis, Nikki Haley (former Governor of South Carolina and conservative Republican), Mitch McConnell, John Thune, Tim Scott, Lindsey Graham, Karl Rove, Newt Gingrich, John Boehner, Paul Ryan, Kevin McCarthy, Mike Johnson, Pat Buchanan, Justice Brett Kavanaugh, Justice Amy Coney Barrett, Justice Neil Gorsuch, Justice Samuel Alito, Justice Clarence Thomas, Roger Ailes, Rush Limbaugh, Tucker Carlson, Ben Shapiro (conservative commentator and author), Robert Mercer, and other right-wing mega-donors, T.S. Eliot, Russell Kirk, William Randolph Hearst, William F. Buckley Jr., Ayn Rand, Milton Friedman, Friedrich Hayek, Alan Greenspan, Steven Mnuchin, Donald Rumsfeld, Rex Tillerson, Mike Pompeo, and William Barr. Far-Right/Reactionary: This segment encompasses individuals and groups with extreme right-wing views, often advocating for a return to traditional social hierarchies, nationalist policies, and authoritarianism. Far-right ideologies may include elements of racism, xenophobia, and white nationalism. They often oppose immigration, multiculturalism, and international cooperation in favor of a more isolationist or nationalist agenda. Examples of Ideologies: Nationalism, white supremacy, authoritarianism, extreme right-wing populism Examples of Groups/Organizations: Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, Qanon, American Renaissance, FOX news, OANN, Newsmax, Evangelical/Fundamentalist Christians, and the Roberts Court (currently). Examples of Individuals: A majority of Republican/conservative elites in the US, right-wing mega-donors, Donald Trump, MAGA Republicans, Steve Bannon (former White House Chief Strategist and far-right nationalist), Ted Cruz (U.S. Senator and conservative Republican), Pat Buchanan, Newt Gingrich, Marjorie Taylor Greene (U.S. Representative known for promoting conspiracy theories), Mike Johnson, Lauren Boebert, Matt Gaetz, Chip Roy, Jim Jordan, Vivek Ramaswamy, Justice Samuel Alito, Justice Clarence Thomas, Richard Spencer (white nationalist and alt-right leader), Roger Ailes, Rush Limbaugh, Tucker Carlson, Alex Jones, Charlie Kirk, Robert Mercer, and other right-wing mega-donors. There is some overlap with examples of each of these Individuals, Ideologies, and Group/Organizations put in each of their respective categories, but I think this is a good start. Let me know what any of you have to add to this breakdown. *Extreme/radical centrism actually hasn't been officially considered as being really within the center or anywhere else within the spectrum; however, one could argue that it would be at the very, very center of the spectrum, but it is just as dysfunctional as any kind of extreme/radical left-wing ideology or any sort of extreme/radical right-wing ideology, in its own way. I want to say that both Manchin and Sinema and other right-wing corporate Democrats like them have been contributing to the problems we have today that are usually attributed to radical centrism. No Labels definitely smells like a major contributor to extreme centrism and corporate extremism. Then again, populist movements can also emerge in the center of the political spectrum, advocating for reforms to address perceived government corruption, bureaucratic inefficiency, or political gridlock. Centrist populists may prioritize anti-establishment rhetoric and propose policies aimed at increasing transparency, accountability, and responsiveness in government. **Given that the use of the terms far-left, left-wing, center-left, centrist, center-right, right-wing, and far-right/Reactionary officially didn't begin to be used until around the turn of the 20th century in the US, we (including the AI) can only make best guesses as to which political figures before around the year 1900 were in which category on the political spectrum. All of them before 1900 were probably either some kind of centrist or barely at the center-left or barely at the center-right, except for James Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, Thaddeus Stevens, and Frederick Douglass. James Buchanan and Andrew Johnson were staunch conservative presidents, right before and right after the Civil War respectively, both of whom strongly opposed civil rights for African Americans. Buchanan in particular was very pro-slavery, and was party responsible for the conditions that led to the outbreak of the Civil War. Thaddeus Stevens and Frederick Douglass, on the other hand, were probably firmly left-wing political leaders as they were fierce social justice warriors who fought like hell to abolish slavery and make the federal government grant all African-Americans American citizenship and every civil right/liberty. ***Nobody really knows what Trump is or what he truly stands for. However, he clearly is striving to be the dictator of the USA and is doing everything he can to escape justice for everything he has done.