Emerald

Just say what you're going to say. You don't have to get dramatic about it.

I appreciate the encouragement. And that's definitely true. It's just frustrating because it's like watching that one character in Austin Powers who sees the car coming from a mile away but just stays in the same spot screaming for over a minute until he's actually run over. And I'm like the person watching the movie and being like, "DUDE! Get out of the way!!! You're about to get run over!!!" But I just have to learn to let them get run over. It's just a shame about all the internet propaganda making it so much harder for men to connect with women and other human beings in general. What's funny about it is that I'm sharing more realistic perspectives that are like, "Hey guys. Women can like you as a person without you needing to be the most Masculine guy on the planet." And they're like, "NO! I'm a lowly beta simp who is below most women's consideration. And women are only settling for me because they can't get Chad."

Yes, aging will be a difficult transition for anyone who thinks this way.

Yeah, I agree on all counts. I just don't get the impression that many of the guys on the forum (including Leo) are capable of understanding perspectives beyond this one reductive mono-perspective on dating and relationships. They're really in a state of paradigm lock with it, but are under the impression that they're only locked on it because it is "the one truth" about dating and relationships. I think they fear that letting go of that one reductive perspective where they "know everything" will diminish their power... when it would actually do the very opposite. It would actually open them up to a state of not-knowing where they could have a real connection with another human being as opposed to projecting all these reductive narratives onto women. Like, maybe that works if the guy doesn't have any social anxieties... and the only goal that they'll ever have in their lives is to try to have sex with as many women as possible. But otherwise, they're really crippling themselves with these points of view.

I don't argue these things for my health. Leo's advice in these matters is like trying to cure Malaria with Tylenol because it misdiagnoses the actual problem. And the paradigms he believes relative to relationships and sexuality (other than, "just approach") will dig you all further into the internet propaganda hole you're already stuck down in. That's the problem when you confuse the antidote for the poison... and the poison for the antidote. My perspective is the antidote because I am telling you an actual real female perspective on what it's like to be attracted to a man in the most thorough and articulate way I can muster, so as to dispel the misconceptions that are causing you so much grief. But you see my perspective as the poison because you don't recognize the practicality of seeing how a real woman thinks and feels.... and you've been brainwashed to believe that only men can tell you valuable things about women. All these internet man-cult perspectives are the poison, but you see them as the antidote because they give you all sorts of "knowledge" about women and relationships... and their narratives give you the illusion of more control. But it just ensnares you into a delusional dating paradigm like a fly caught in a spider's web. And my advice is very practical if you can actually drop resistance to it, understand it, and internalize it... as it is only the truth that will set you free. It's just frustrating because you guys are on the struggle bus with this topic (Leo included)... yet you are so confidently wrong. And with these distorted reductive paradigms, you're making yourselves utterly un-coupleable and not suited towards long-term pair-bonding because you can't even hear or see a woman. And that's what's so frustrating about it. But I just need to stop trying to help you and let life teach you its lessons.

I guess it depends on how you define success. Perhaps one could argue that (evolutionarily) a guy who has children with 5 different women and 10 women on the side is the most successful with women. It could be argued from an evolutionary perspective because he's sewing his seed the most widely and passing on his genes more than other men. But that's a very myopic way of thinking about dating success. And these kinds of guys aren't exactly catches. They're usually pretty grody, tbh. Or you could define success as a guy who has a moderate amount of women interested in him and doesn't feel any scarcity with regard to female interest and who has the occasional hook-up, but who is actually capable of a real human connection with a woman and wants to add to the social fabric. That's how I define an attractive and successful man... even if he's not swimming in pussy like the grody guy. And that's the issue of framing human relationship as a purely transactional survival game without regard to the our softer communal nature as a species. Plus, most of these men (including Leo) will just use the evolutionary biology perspective to continue to be reductive about human relationships and to think of things ONLY as a survival game... and strip even more meaning from human connection... and lead them further into disconnection, loneliness, shame, and coldness.

It doesn't poke a hole in that argument at all. To have a human connection, you have to get to know that person in person. On a dating app, it's purely visual and informational. So, people have to choose based off of that in terms of who they're going to give it a try with. And men are very visual... but women are not. So, it's not the way that women actually develop feelings. In real life, there can be actual chemistry and human-to-human connection. And only then do women really see the beauty of a particular man.

Yes, there are lots of men only want the top 10% of women and just want to have a bunch of sex. Then they bitterly settle for beta gals that they don't really care about when they fail. Sounds familiar, no? Edit: I just got the God part of the joke. But what I said still stands.

Thank you. But I'm not an edge case in these ways, at all. And I don't like it when people assume that my wisdom makes me somehow not human-like. I'm a very ordinary human when it comes to my relationship with other humans. There is nothing special or different about me in any kind of meaningful way, when it comes to my relationship with humanity. And I find many average men quite intriguing and beautiful. But only when they're not trying. I suppose, the only things extraordinary about me in this regard is that I value ordinariness and have a hobby for wisdom-seeking. And you can only become wise when you stop trying to be some super-human and recognize that there's nothing so special about you. Memento Mori.

Yes! And community is truly the ultimate reproduction and survival game for the human being in general... as all other reproductive and survival needs are met through community. So, what happens when men are learning how to "reproduce" through narratives that make them more socially repellent and work at cross-purposes to their ability to socially connect within a human community? Social degeneration... of course.

Because dating apps aren't where real social interactions happen. That's just shopping for dates the way you would anything else.

The ways you guys try to solve your dating problems just make you lonelier and more disconnected. If you could really internalize what I'm telling you, then you would actually feel better and be able to connect with a romantic partner... rather than just engaging in this weird hierarchical transactional game. Propaganda is one hell of a drug.

What about women who are past menopause?

Have fun with your loneliness epidemic, I guess. I hope you all find a more fulfilling and less transactional way to relate to other people.

Consider that you have some issues with disconnection and avoidance... and that these rationalizations are just a way for you to increase your cynicism about human relationships and push other people away. You think you're a truth teller. But these are just anti-social protection strategies to keep yourself from feeling vulnerable parading themselves as "harsh truths that most people aren't willing to face. But I am so different from others that I am willing to face them."

This just reflects your own romantic immaturity and lack of real relationship experience. And it's sad that you see things in such a transactional disconnected way, where everyone is just settling for their partner instead of actually preferring their partner. The male loneliness epidemic strikes again, I fear.

True. It's honestly just carbon-copy projection of their own tendencies onto women. Literally every accusation is a confession. They are like, "All the women that I like are sleeping with the top 10% of guys." Meanwhile, it's like the top 10% of women looks-wise that they want. So, of course these women are with the top 10% of guys because those guys are their match attractiveness-wise. And because they want the top 10% of women, but they can't get them. They might settle for a more average-looking girl who they are with begrudgingly because the top 10% of women won't have anything to do with them. Then they're like, "Women only like the top 10% of men. And then they just settle for the average guys when the top guys won't have them." And then they're like, "I wish I could be promiscuous and screw all the hottest girls!" Meanwhile they're like, "Damn these women! They're so promiscuous and screwing all the hottest guys! How dare they!?!?!?" And then they're like, "I want to find a way to over-inflate my value in the eyes of women, so that I can get more women!" And then they're like, "Hoe-flation! How dare these women over-inflate their value in the eyes of men!" It's projection 101. They're really just mad at themselves for being shallow and blocking themselves from real connection.

That's just not an accurate reflection of how average men and women actually relate together in real life, at all. And you should be more responsible and let young men know that those statistics are false. You're just making all these young nerdy guys lose hope that a woman will ever prefer and love them, when the reality of male/female relationships is actually much kinder to average men... as long as they don't make themselves anti-social through all this man-cult propaganda brainwashing. And these men only become un-dateable only because their mind has been "ran-through" with internet propaganda. You need to go into a Walmart sometime. Then, you'll see how people really operate if you can look past your filters. Look around at all the husbands in the world. Do you really think they're the top 10% of men?

Exactly my point. Men often have this notion that they have to max out their level of Masculinity to be attractive to women and become some stoic machine of a guy. But women are attracted to more subtle expressions of Masculinity than they are overt ones. The same is true for men... but even though men tend to be most attracted to softer and more subtle Feminine expressions, men can also enjoy hyper-Feminine expressions like the lady with the big boobs and lips. Men are more responsive to hyper-normal visual stimuli than women are, so this is probably why. So, while women might be put off by the image of the bodybuilder above as hyper-Masculinity is unattractive.... most men might be able to find some level of attractiveness in hyper-Feminine expressions like huge lips, fake breasts, BBLs, etc. Now, of course Sydney Sweeney and Brad Pitt are ideals.... they are Hollywood's beautiful people. But everyday men who are attractive tend to have this mixture of hard and soft qualities... and that's what makes them attractive as you can see their personality more coming through in their gestures and expressions.

What women think of as very Masculine is more subtle and is a mixture of hard and soft qualities... like the image of Brad Pitt above. (Of course, Brad Pitt is a more ideal expression of this... but most men have this mixture. And if they have confidence, there will be women who find it attractive.) And it's very different than what men tend to think of as Masculine... where they might image body-builders or MMA fighters as very Masculine and as the standard to match up to. But women aren't as attracted to that, generally speaking. But men often think women are interested in hyper-Masculine guys with no softness to them whatsoever. And they often fall into the trap of thinking they have to be as hyper-Masculine (though usually not quite as extreme as the body-builder guy from the pic). Men think they need to be King Leonidas from 300... when Tyler Durden is actually a lot more popular with women.

An hourglass is just Femininity... not hyper-Femininity. Hyper-Femininity is an exaggeration of Femininity... just like Hyper-Masculinity is an exaggeration of Masculinity. It would be like if every woman were trying to model themselves after women with too much lip filler and gigantic breast implants... and believing they had to look like that to be attractive to men. Here are some images that show the contrasts that I mean in starker terms in terms of whether a person presents in a more moderate or more exaggerated was relative to the Masculine/Feminine expressions.

It's exactly like that. And it's really sad and frustrating because I can see how these online echo chambers fool young men into "improving" themselves in ways that are actually counter-productive to them developing into high quality men. It's like if women were all being brainwashed that women are only attracted to bald women... and that the men will deny it because "Don't ask a fish how to catch it!". So, these women are constantly shaving their heads because they are convinced that men will be repulsed to see hair growing on their head. Then, when men try to tell them that they don't actually prefer bald women and like a woman with longer hair... the women are like, "Look at this deluded man. Never listen to a man about what he likes because he lies about it. Scientifically, men are wired to respond more to bald women because in nomadic times... blah blah blah. And you can tell because men like it when women shave their legs... so men are repulsed by women with hair on their heads." And because it has that cult-like dynamic, you just can't even communicate to them or get through as they relate it to "secrets" of self-improvement that "women won't tell you they respond to." And it feels like 2 steps forward... on a treadmill that's constantly pulling them backwards into worse versions of themselves. They need to do a study where they have a bunch of guys who are exposed to a lot of Masculinity echo-chamber self-improvement content AND a bunch of guys who seek out more neutral self-improvement solutions. Then, see how well each group does when it comes to both how well each group does with long-term relationships and the percentage of men in each group who never have sex with women. And I'm quite confident that the latter will have a lot more success with women.

Well said.

Number one, these things have been studied. And the studies do reflect what I've experienced in my subjective experience relative to how women respond to male attractiveness... both generally and towards a particular man. Number two, if there was a uniquely minded man who was more mature and spiritually aware than most men, would he find women with Feminine features and an hourglass figure unattractive? If not, consider that my perspective is one that's quite average for women to have as it comes to what women find attractive about men. I am perhaps just able to communicate it more thoroughly than most women who might not tend to analyze their instinctual and emotional responses as much as I do. I wish I could turn you all into heterosexual women for like a year... and then you'd organically develop really intense romantic and sexual feelings for some regular guy you happen to work with who's more subtly Masculine, and you'd be like, "Ohh!!! We've been being so stupid about this topic. We're sorry Emerald."

Yes, Cavill and Hemsworth are attractive men. And Brad Pitt is handsome in this as well.... but he's more attractive with more a more subtly muscular body. It's just that these body types don't tend to be the most highly rated body types among women as a whole group. That said, a handsome guy is a handsome guy. These guys are all Hollywood heartthrobs, mind you. So, even if his body type isn't the one most women consider to be ideal, they will likely still respond positively to it because they are just such handsome guys. That said, most women would probably find this leaner and subtly muscular version of Brad Pitt more attractive than the one above where he looks totally jacked...