Emerald

That's true. It's an ego thing. Your comments were needlessly rude to me, so I'm messing with you a bit and busting your chops. It's not about your disagreement. I would have left you alone and/or leveled with you and added to your perspective. But I am also still trying to help you because I see a person who's boxed into a bad place. Even though you got on my nerves earlier and agitated some of my own wounds, I know that you're likely suffering a lot more because of the quickness with which you were triggered and lashed out at my first post to you like a dog with a thorn in its paw who is protective of its wound. But my post honestly was in good spirits and not antagonistic to you at all. I was just trying to convey some nuance to the topic that many men may miss. The PUA techniques work but work for different reasons. And the reason why creating negative emotions works is because you're picking up a woman with issues. It's not a trait of a psychologically healthy woman. So, I was a tad surprised by the lashing out and misogynistic response. Guys on here are usually very respectful to me even if they have had issues with women or disagree with me. It is my goal for my life to help others navigate their way out of suffering. But I am still identified as an ego, so I get hung up on my identifications and I'm very stubborn. But I'm trying to be better, and like I said before, it's all I really know how to do at this point. It's not a conscious choice of mine to not be enlightened, so all I can do at this point is share my observations. But if a person is rude to me for no good reason, then I may tend to get a little passive aggressive and take a few jabs at them or get into pissing contests with them. But I'm experimenting with the thought that the way out of the childish behavior is through it. That said, I still think that my advice is still good advice to listen to... if you want to attract a psychologically healthy woman for a long term relationship (like Jordan Wang seemed to be) and if you want to avoid mixing up words and seeming inexperienced with sex.

The other stuff shouldn't be forced though or used to manipulate the man. It shouldn't feel like you're playing a game on him, but moreso playing around with one another as a mutual thing. That's why I said that it's like a dance. It's a form of expression where you both should be participating enthusiastically and know exactly what's going on even if it's never spoken. And it should come pretty naturally, and is very exciting if you enjoy romance and anticipation, as I imagine that most women do. Authenticity is number one. But romance and authenticity are not anti-thetical. And because you're trying to attract a guy (on the sole basis that you like him as a person and that he's special to you) by learning how not to screw up the mating dance by coming on too strong (it's a common mistake that infatuated women tend to make), it is not really like pick-up artistry which tends to be focused toward getting good with women in general. Pick up only sometimes rubs me the wrong way because it makes the women in the situation inter-changable which can put salt on some old wounds of mine. So, it can give a feeling of manipulation and objectification like my humanity means nothing to men. But I try to keep in mind that the lower nature doesn't care about higher principles like humanity. As I said, the inner beast simply wants what it wants and the conscious mind has no say. And this is true of all people. So, it's not really personal. But PUA objectively isn't very much like my advice because it mostly isn't about personal relationship, but about developing a skillset by gaming with many women's sexuality. My advice is specifically geared toward developing a personal relationship with a specific person and has nothing to do with getting good with guys in general. Otherwise, pick-up is fine with me. I think it's actually a good idea for men to learn some of it. I'm glad my husband had studied into some of it because he totally nailed the first date. And I was glad to participate in the romance. It's a beautiful dynamic, really. I'm lucky to have experienced it twice in my life. But ultimately, this is just how I noticed that it works. Everyone is different and not everyone likes romance. It's my perception that many men don't really understand it that much. And a lot of it's very old fashioned, so it can seem very sexist and heteronormative to some people. Sometimes people like a very straightforward approach with no mating dance. Some people like to just have someone come up to them and say "Hey your cute. I like you." But I find that less interesting as it kills the romance aspect. So, many men may not enjoy or understand the way that feminine attraction works the way it works because it tends to be exclusionary and intuitively driven. But it is true that it often works that way. That's why it's in those women's magazines in the first place. But again, that's just the lower nature. It's the inner cavewoman. After the first few months, it's much less important. After that point, the relationship will naturally take on new, deeper, more comfortable, and less intense intonations, and the initial stuff will only be a very exciting memory. But as it's going on... it's an amazing experience.

Yeah. He was a strange character. He was 19 at the time too. So, it was totally illegal each way you sliced it, since she (like myself) was 14. But I lived in such a bizzarro world (trailer town, Florida) when I was a teenager that abnormal honestly seemed more normal than normal. I was really well-adjusted to that world. There are things that I totally put up with (and even advocated for) as a teenager and thought were normal that I recognize are pretty messed up now. Relative to others in my circle of people, Mike was relatively normative and was a pretty nice guy. I really don't think he realized that what he was doing was messed up. He genuinely didn't see that he was doing anything wrong. Plus, he was a kleptomaniac in general, so you always had to expect something to go missing when he was around. It just so happened to be panties that time.

What I'm saying is that some people do actually steal ladies' underwear still. It happened to my stepsister when we were 14. One of our (admittedly very strange) male friends (named Mike no less... hmm), who she actually ended up dating later, snuck into her room and took them from her when he was visiting. I remember us laughing about it back then. It really does happen. We didn't really see it as messed up back then though. But we joked about him being a "panty raider" because we'd seen the reference before in movies and tv shows. Also, it was just strangely worded the way he put what he said about "raiding your first panty". So, it didn't look like he was using at a euphemism. So, I assumed that either a) he may not know what it actually means as a result of just being mistaken or hearing it used out of context or b) may speak English as his second language and have the wrong impression about what the expression actually means. There are a lot of people who don't speak English as their first language on this forum. And since he didn't understand my post from earlier, I thought that this might have been the reason why. But generally, I wouldn't correct someone on this and would just assume that they were using it as a euphemism.

The trick is to always maintain awareness of the role that you're playing when you're playing a role. That way you don't get attached to it and confuse it for what you really are. I had the same question after I first experienced a glimpse of egolessness, and after thought "I need to be 100% honest and authentic all the time at all costs." And I ended up doing stupid things that undermined my ability to to get along in the world. So, it's important to make a difference between being 100% honest with yourself versus being 100% honest with the world regardless of consequences. So, use a filter for practical reasons. People wouldn't understand anyway and just think you're crazy. But try to make your filter as minimal as the situation allows.

Actually, it was an old dormitory prank and it DOES actually still happen... though not usually as a prank done by a group. But most people know the reference from popular culture's reference to it. But if I heard a guy say that, I would definitely know what he was trying to say, but I would also assume that he didn't actually know what a panty raid really is and as a consequence also suspect that he didn't know very much about sex in general due to the mix up. And some people may take it literally and even assume that he sneaks into women's panty drawers. So, it was just a fair warning for avoiding unnecessary embarrassment in the future.

@Shin Thanks for the support. @SFRL Just one more thing... a panty raid isn't what you think it is. A panty raid is when you sneak into a woman's house and steal a pair of panties from her underwear drawer... perhaps for the purposes of wearing them yourself or just having them as a keepsake. If you use that phrase, people may assume that you're either a serious creep who sneaks into women's homes... or simply that you don't have much sexual experience and have no idea what you're talking about...

You can tag them in this, if you want: I'll talk about my experience with initial attraction dynamics because this has to fall in place first. But this is only the first few months of a relationship. After the first few months, you should be more focused toward developing a deeper friendship and a strong partnership. It requires a completely different kind of cultivating than the initial hoopla of falling in love. It's a different set of neuro-chemicals and brain centers at play. My advice on finding a long-term parter is to first do a lot of introspection and let go of as much baggage as possible. You want to do this first, because you'll always attract and be attracted to a person that mirrors and/or complements you psychologically... even if this isn't super obvious at first. Healthy people are attracted to healthy people, and unhealthy people are attracted to unhealthy people. So, get as healthy as you can first by doing integrative practices and inner work. Be whole first; then seek a relationship. Also, be sure to let go of any resistance to men as a group. Misandrists and misogynists are desperately attracted to one another, and will unconsciously use each other to prop up their negative views on the opposite gender and to meet their needs to connect with what they've repressed as well. People who tend to talk about "real men" and "real women" stuff, tend to fall into these reductive mindsets about gender. So, take these as red flags. It's a really negative dynamic that you may have noticed between people, and no love or partnership can grown there. Also, limiting beliefs and mental baggage will distort and obscure your emotional lens and make you think you want things that you actually don't. This will blunt your intuition and awareness of your emotions. And these two factors are the most important thing in determining how deep your level of attraction is to a man. You won't be getting clear signals as to who will really light your fire... and high heat is necessary in the first months of a relationship because it is a bonding force. WIthout heat and passion, there is no initial fusion which is also called "falling in love." If you never "fall in love" with your partner, due to lack of fusion, then it will be a chore to maintain your relationship and it will be more like a friendship where bland sex and cohabitation is involved. It's similar to chemistry where some chemicals react with one another to form a new chemical and others do not. You want to have the kind of chemistry that reacts, transforms, and bonds. But there is no way to force this. It will only happen with who it happens with. So, it is a passive process. You just have to let the Cupid's Arrow strike you wherever it strikes, and this may happen counterintuitively and unexpectedly. Another thing to keep in mind is that, at first, you will likely be a lot more emotionally interested in him than he is in you. He will more likely be most interested in sex, at first. And beware that some men have mental blocks and can NEVER get past this point from where they are psychologically. But you don't want a relationship with that type of guy anyway. He has more work to do on himself before he can have a healthy loving relationship. If we want to talk in terms of chakras, men tend to become attracted at the sacral chakra level first and usually only move that energy to the heart center after spending intimate (sexual and otherwise) time with a woman. Women tend to become attracted to a man at the heart center first, and then the energy moves downward after spending intimate (sexual or otherwise) time with a man. Of course, there are many exceptions to this... but this is a general rule of thumb that I've observed. But your intuition should lead you to a man who mirrors you, if you're open and receptive to your feelings. You will know it is who you're supposed to be with when you feel intensely positive emotions toward that person that radiate through the entire body from the chest. The more intense the emotions are, the better. There doesn't need to be any conscious decision making in this attraction process. You will feel it before you think it. But don't get trigger happy and mess up the mating dance. You should make him feel like he made the first move and that the whole thing was his idea. It's like dancing. The woman takes the first step (backward) but the man leads. If the woman doesn't take the first step backward first, the man will step on her feet. So, put yourself in close proximity to him and be inviting, but be elusive too. Move away from him but subtly invite him toward you. Scarcity makes the heart grown fonder. Let him chase you a bit, and never chase him. Let your sexuality glint through in your words actions but don't lay it on too thick. Save all the really sexy stuff until the moment that the chase is over (usually when you allow him to kiss you for the first time). Then, do whatever feels right after that point. But a longer chase, often makes for more intensity and heat for both partners. It's more conducive to fusion. Plus, a man will value more what he's spent more time and effort getting, and this will help him invest more in you emotionally to move the attraction past the point of mere sexual attraction. This may sound backward and objectifying, but male sexual impulse tends to be objectifying by design. But it's a reptilian brain thing, so it doesn't adhere to the higher nature of humanity that takes stock in egalitarian values. It's a lower nature thing, and the inner beast wants what it wants. But this is only something to worry about in the first months of a relationship. After that, the higher nature is far more important that the lower nature as the first few months are just a flash in the pan. But the lower nature, is necessary for a strong initial bond. But the deepening of the relationship comes with creating an equal and complementary partnership. So, in the beginning, think polarization, but afterward think deepening and friendship. So tldr version: make yourself healthy first and your intuition will lead you to a person who you're supposed to be with. Focus on intensity of emotions in deciding who you're attracted to. Then, put yourself in close proximity to him while not letting on that you like him too much... even if your feelings are intense. Basically, don't mess up the mating dance.

You just have to be honest. So, you have to exercise your "no" muscles. There is no way to function in the world without using them. You will have to say 'no' ten times more than you'll ever say 'yes.' So, it's an important skill to have. But I always had a hard time with telling people 'no' when I was younger because I didn't want to cause anyone to feel even the slightest negative emotion and risk looking like a bitch. Someone could go out of their way to make me uncomfortable, and I would just try to humor them to make them feel comfortable. A lot of this had to do with the fact that I felt like I wasn't allowed to set my own boundaries and still be considered a nice person, which was really important to my identity. I think many women who want to be the "laid back one" who's "not like the other girls" tend to develop this issue. So, if this sounds like you, then you really have to become okay with setting boundaries and enforcing those boundaries with a calm, respectful, and assertive manner. Don't be afraid to be seen as a bitch. Also, if you're afraid of being seen as a bitch. Then, you have to also search around and face your own judgments of other women who are bitchy and try to integrate the parts of yourself that you repressed when you made the decision that "bitchy women are bad, and I'm not like that." Find what you have in common. There are also a lot of sexist social conditionings that discourage female assertiveness that you'll have to become aware of and mentally give the middle finger to. This is my take on the situation based on my experiences, but there could be other motivations. Does this sound like the thought processes that you've been involved in?

All I can speak to is my own experience. So, I could be wrong. But I suspect that people are mostly similar in this way.

I may in the future.

I believe the statistics but (given my experiences) I think that those studies show more of a correlation and not necessarily a causation. I think this finding has much more to do with the type of person that only has one partner in the first place as opposed to the actual activity of having many partners or just one. From the perspective of the divorced people who have had multiple partners: A lot of times, people look for multiple partners or end up hopping from relationship to relationship because of psychological hang-ups that sap them of their happiness and stability. So, a person who rambles a lot as a single person will likely take this into their relationship dynamic and will eventually feel the weight of their unmet needs and come to the conclusion that divorce is the necessary course of action. Then, they will end up in another marriage and find themselves in the same spot again as they may feel that they can either be single and alone or married and trapped. But this won't end until they figure out what they're really looking for, which can only be found inside of themselves. From the perspective of the happy people with the same partner for life: Also, it's important not to underestimate a person's ability to lie to themselves about how happy they are. If a person has invested a lot in a relationship and the fact that it's been their only relationship, they're unlikely to break it off just because they don't want to lose that part of their identity. So, even if it's a really unhappy relationship, fear of the unknown, fear of loss of friends, home, identity, and stability, along with social taboos regarding divorce may lead a person to convince themselves that they are, indeed, in a happy marriage when they are not. I know that with my first boyfriend, we were together for four years and it was an objectively awful relationship that was a huge weight on my life. But I still thought I was happy and I was very attached to the idea of only having one partner for my entire life. But when I had my experiences of ego-transcendence, one thing that became totally clear was that I was miserable in the relationship and that the weight of "staying together for life" was sapping the relationship and myself of even more happiness. So, the findings of those studies are predictable and undoubtedly accurate but don't necessarily point to the real truth of the matter given the degree of unawareness people have relative to their uncomfortable emotions.

Don't think of it as super idyllic. There were times, just a couple years ago, where we were both mired in psychological hang-ups which caused a lot of strain on our relationship. I even entertained the notion of splitting up for a while because I felt trapped in a bad spot. But I've done a lot of work on myself, and he's done a lot of work on himself too. So, we're much better than we used to be as we've dropped some of our baggage, and I can't see us falling back into such a bad spot again anytime soon. But we still bicker from time to time. So, I would say that our relationship is in the healthy range and that we feel secure about it. But we definitely have our issues still. So, I don't have any recipes for success, other than to take responsibility for your own psychological healing and hope that your partner does the same. If your partner doesn't follow suit, the relationship may unfortunately not be fixable. Luckily, my hubby has put in a lot of work into himself. So, I'm very grateful for the relationship that we have, and I'm super proud of him.

That's true. I'm incredibly lucky for the circumstances of my birth.

I'm very glad that I had one long relationship, a couple short flings, and a few one-night stands before meeting my husband. This is simply because the short things truly pale in comparison to my relationship. So, they don't compromise it. In fact, the dating scene is pretty sucky so I would hate to go back to it, even if there's a certain type of excitement to it. But if I hadn't experienced these things, I know that I would always be wondering about what it would be like to have those experiences if I did not partake in them. So, my view is to let life be a full adventure and try to experience as many things as you can until your intuition leads you elsewhere.

My thought is that it's important to experience both. I think that if a person gets into a relationship early on and never has the ability to experiment with other partners, that this will create a lot of tension and regret. So, my advice is to have as many experiences as you want to when you're young until it gets old and boring, and then settle with someone that you have a deep friendship with. But you have to be truly done with the short flings first, otherwise you will feel torn.

No. That's not true. But I understand how it could be perceived that way. I just don't know any other way to be. This way of interacting has always been the way I talk to people. But if my way of being is too much for your nerves, then we don't have to continue this conversation. Have a nice day!

I agree with this.

I understand. If you just didn't get it, then I understand why you responded to my posts with hostility. But my whole purpose for interacting on this forum is to try help people through their issues. It's something that I enjoy doing. So, the number one thing to do is to try to harmonize perspectives before trying to help. So, I meant no antagonism by my reply to you. I feel like, when you read my post, you just saw my gender and assumed that I was being confrontational and antagonistic with you. But that's not true. I really was trying to help you with your dating/relationship endeavors. I do admit, however, I felt a little incredulous and amused when you told me to "stay in my own lane" because I don't really have any thing of substance to say about female emotions BECAUSE I"m female. But that just made me giggle a little at the illogical and contradictory nature of what you posted. But, forget about understanding what I said about dating dynamics. Those are more advanced issues for a later time. You need to first learn to be whole within yourself before you can have a healthy relationship with someone else. If you try to have a relationship with a woman at this point, you will suck each-other's souls dry. It seems to me that you're suffering from repression of your feminine side. You will have constant issues with women until you learn to do this. You will feel like women are antagonizing you at every turn... despite the fact that, deep down, you know that this isn't true. Here's a video about the Anima and how men and masculine-oriented women can integrate the feminine part of themselves in an authentic way.

Yeah, I agree. I think human beings are all really complex, so people can look over their own needs if ideals get in the way. But, I hate to see people shoot themselves in the foot and assume that people are very simple. Relationships will be nearly impossible for a person who assumes that they know more than others about their own experience. Generally speaking, however, you don't want to mess up the "mating dance" by asking the girl you like what she's attracted to. But asking a woman (particularly an older woman who is into introspection) about the mechanics of how a woman develops an attraction to a man is probably a wiser course of action than to listen to some guy's interpretation of a woman's needs from the outside. You have to be in this, to really know what it's like.

Just more projection...

I'm not playing with you. I really am serious about what I'm saying. And if you go back and read my posts with a clear head, you'll see that I was trying to level with your perspective. But I did come up with the joke myself.

Precisely my point.

You still didn't answer my question. You just jumped around into very illogical forms of reasoning that have very little in common. It was like you went "Kevin Bacon... Bacon Bits... Megabytes... Megaman." Therefore Kevin Bacon is Megaman!

Rule number one is smart if you're looking for women with a moderate to high degree of unawareness relative to the often counter-intuitive nature of their own emotional and sexual needs. And this is common because society doesn't encourage this type of awareness and has historically met it with huge resistance. So, you will have a larger pool of women to pick from because this unawareness is common... but... But a woman who fits this description will often cling to social ideas about what's proper and should be empowering for a woman to feel and do relative to sex and is easily blind-sighted to the primal nature of her own instincts which she may unconsciously fear will strip her of power and autonomy. So, many women prefer to ignore this crazy rabbit hole and just tune out from it because it's easier to make up a nicer story. And this is why rule number one is rule number one in the first place. Many women will logically think that they want one thing because of social conditionings, discomforts, and fears, but their emotions are telling them a different story. But because most people don't listen to their emotions very well and just treat them as nuisances, she is far more likely to tell you what her mind has decided that she wants than what she actually wants. But this tuning out will give her very little ability to control and utilize these instincts for her own true desires to be met and it will cause a disintegration within herself. So, she's easy to pick up with the tricks that can be learned from textbooks because this causes a deep unconscious need to which these buttons can be pushed very easily. But she will often come out of the situation very bitter, unfulfilled, and hurt because it doesn't resolve the issue of unawareness. In extreme cases of repression, she may even come to think that her partner took advantage of her despite being a willing participant, due to social taboos surrounding female sexuality and an unconscious desire to explain away her wrong-doing. But rule number one is incredibly stupid if you're looking for a woman with a high degree of self-awareness and openness. It would seem that the person who posted is looking for a girlfriend and not a one night stand. So, I assume that he wants a psychologically healthy partner who doesn't have a lot of the above problems. So, I think it would be wise to listen to a woman's honest emotional reflections of how attractions worked for her when she was his age as opposed to only learning game and trying to find just anyone. But you said that what I'm talking about relative to women wanting to experience good and bad emotions, is not the same thing as what you're talking about. Could you elaborate, so that I might understand better?