Emerald

I don't know about that as a generality. My standards are a lot higher than they were in my early 20s because I've been around the block. And I've observed that that describes most women who are 30+. And all my female friends' standards for their partners have gone up as they've matured. Like, when I was 18-20... I could be attracted to guys who had very little going for them if they had long hair, smoked weed, and were in a band as that was the lifestyle that I wanted in my teens and early 20s. All that was necessary were some common interests in music or in clothing style. Nowadays, that would not fly at all... and I would find that quite repulsive. Yet again, an older woman who's interested in very young men might be particularly immature herself like a Puella Aeternus. So, I don't doubt that they exist and that you might be approached by them, as there are immature people who exist. And I know that cougars exist. Not that you seem interested in these older women, I would just say to be careful if you get involved with them as that can be really negative for the younger person to be involved with a much older person. Personally, I'm 36, and I couldn't imagine being interested in a guy who's under the age of 30 because they're just not in the same stage of life as I am.

That's what the narrative is that men are getting brainwashed into to increase their insecurities so that they buy more information products from online Masculinity peddlers who want to profit from their insecurities. You seem believe that women are SETTLING for the beta guy after they've had their "fun" with the gigachads. But women actually PREFER the beta guy. No settling necessary.

Yes, Harry Styles is quite attractive because he has a mixture of hard and soft qualities. And you'll find the women's celebrity crushes usually have this hard/soft combo going on because that's what most women prefer. And that Jocko Willink guy is very Masculine and has the characteristic unsexiness to his appearance that most hyper-Masculine guys have. Like, I can't imagine having a tender human moment with him... nor a passionate moment just from looking at his appearance. Of course, he could be a really nice tender guy irl. His unexpressive appearance just suggests otherwise... so he's not appealing at first glance. So, at first blush, he seems to be a low emotional stimulation kind of guy because you wouldn't be able to see any emotions or conflict reflecting in his eyes when sleeping with him. Like a going to bed with a statue.

First off, no man can change his level of Masculinity as it is innate. So, it doesn't matter what is ideal, as everyone is working with what they got... unless they start taking hormones or steroids. I'm just trying to communicate to men that most women don't prefer a hyper-Masculine guy... and more average expressions of Masculinity are plenty attractive to women... even more attractive than hyper-Masculinity is in the eyes of most women. Keep in mind, a lot of these young men believe they have to be Rambo for a woman to actually be interested in them as a person. And that any woman who likes them is just settling for them because she "can't land Rambo". That's the narrative they're feeding men now-a-days. And if you were female, you would know how bullshit they really are as you'd have experienced being hyper-attracted to an average guy, and you wouldn't believe the things you currently believe from the blindspot you're in as a straight man. It's just conflating what men respect about men with what women are attracted to in men, which are two very different things. Hyper-Masculinity just isn't very attractive at all. Not to body shame or personality shame, but it's a little bit repellent. And most women will tell you that. (There are also things that are very Feminine and considered unattractive too... like cellulite.) So, clearly I am not as unusual as you think I am... and the study Dr. K stated in the video backs that up... as do the street interviews of women rating the most attractive male body types. Women aren't as attracted to hyper-Masculine guys as they are guys who have a mixture of hard and soft qualities... and that includes body types. You just don't understand female sexuality as well as you think you do... and you don't really get what women really find appealing about men. And I do mean MOST women. it's a shame too... because you're missing out because the attractive things about Masculinity are a lot more subtle. They whisper and they don't scream. And they come across when the man is just being himself, comfortable in his own skin, and isn't even trying to be particularly manly. Imagine women at large were under the impression that they had to garishly exaggerate their Femininity to the degree that they made themselves less attractive. Like if 90% of women thought they needed to look like the lady in the image below to be interesting to men. Then, you tried to tell women (of varying levels of attractiveness) that they don't need to exaggerate their Femininity to the highest degree to be attractive to men, and they said, "No way. That is the very best way to get lots of men interested in sleeping you is to exaggerate your Femininity as much as possible." And you'd be like, "Sure. If that's what you want." But you said so yourself that that isn't what you want... and that you're looking for one partner. And while most men would like to have a promiscuous phase, most men would also eventually like to have women see them as longterm relationship material and don't want to come across like a raging fuckboy on steroids... which most discerning women will filter out of consideration, not just because it's not good... but because it's not very attractive or appealing either. Long story short, Masculinity is most intriguing when it's subtle and unpretended... and when the fierceness of it is mixed with human tenderness enough to where you can actually connect to it intimately.

I said most... not all.

I'm just using the language that Dr. K is using. I know that alpha and beta isn't primarily about physical appearance. But many men believe they have to be these hyper-Masculine alpha-looking guys who are ripped with a 6-pack to have women interested in them. It seems that lots of young men have really internalized the notion that women are preferring the most Masculine guys... and the more Masculine the better. But too much Masculinity tends to decrease the attractiveness of a man in the eyes of most women. And that just isn't the case because very few women prefer the appearance of hyper-Masculine guys... and prefer men with more averagely strong or lean body-types. And also women tend to prefer a mixture of Masculine and Feminine features on a man. Also, "alpha"/player guys don't even give off appealing vibes.... in my opinion. They usually give off sleazy used car salesman vibes... and most women learn this by high school. I've noticed that it's mostly women who have some self-esteem issues that go for them... probably because it mirrors some childhood abandonment or insecure attachment dynamic and makes these men attractive to them.

@UpperMaster That could have played a role for her... the common demographic background. But honestly, it's about the chemistry and the human-to-human connection... and commonality of any kind just helps with that.

I preferred this when I was 20 as well.

Personally, I understand. As someone with a really strong life-purpose myself that I'm working on daily, I need a partner who's not quite as married to their work as I am. So, I know that guys who have a strong life-purpose are not someone that I'd be a good match to because it's more likely to put me in a wishbone situation, where either he or I will have to sacrifice investment in our purpose for the others' purpose if they end up bringing us in opposite directions. It's much better to have a dynamic where both support the household, but that one isn't as purpose-driven as the other. But that's just what I need for my personal relationship dynamic, given the fact that I am a very purpose-driven person and cannot be otherwise without massive amounts of unhappiness and depression. I've been that way since I was about 5 years old, where I'm always aiming for some greater future trajectory which provides a sense that I'm living a meaningful story. It is a bit more common that the man be the purpose-driven one though. And it makes sense that many purpose-driven men would want a supportive partner who isn's as married to their work. But making your significant other your "purpose" is not the same as seeing your significant other as the prize.

Exactly. It's 100% like that. I remember, when I was 13 or 14, I thought that boys found the skinniest girls attractive. And I would be really jealous of girls I went to school with who were rail-thin. And this was the early 2000s, so all of the pop stars and actress were SUPER skinny. Mind you, I was only like 125 lbs at the time, which is smack in the middle of the range of normal weight for my height. But I was jealous of girls who were like 90-100 lbs. So, I felt a lot of pressure to get as skinny as possible. But then, I heard a lot of boys in my grade saying they liked a bit of meat on the bones and curves. And I saw a survey in some magazine where most guys hadn't rated the skinniest woman as the most attractive. So, knowing this enabled me to start leaning into my weight and appreciating my body type.

Why? It's a lot more forgiving than what men tend to believe women want.

I am thinking about it in terms of how it would be to be physical with him (cuddling and otherwise) when making that consideration. And the fleshiness is more inviting than the hardness. It just feels like you can physically connect more if a guy has a layer of fat over the muscle.

No... there really is a PREFERENCE for the "betas". And women just tend to respond better to guys with a strong but not ripped look. Bearing in mind, these are very young women so they're probably going to like the lean look... as that's very laddish and might resemble their male peers more. So, if they were a bit older, they might tend to prefer the dad bod. I personally prefer the dad bod... but would have preferred the leaner body as a younger woman. But notice how very few women choose the ripped body.

Not the same guy. But yes, I find the guy on the left more attractive than the guy on the right... body-wise and face-wise.

Yes... he's definitely an attractive man. Men are attractive when they have a mixture of hard and soft qualities because you can see his inner world reflected in his face and tender intimate moments are possible.

I wish we could test it out because you would definitely be surprised at what women REALLY respond to.

But women themselves tend to have a relationship bias. Most women don't tend to value short-term hookups or get a lot out of them. And many women aren't even interested in short-term hook-ups as the emotional stimulation is low and the risk is high. So, they're not as intrigued by super Masculine guys who might have more of a tendency to want to hit and run. Perhaps women who are more promiscuous and enjoy one-night stands might possibly prefer hyper-Masculine guys though for one-night stands. That would be something that would be of value to study. Like, for me, I've had a few one-night stands in the past. But they were pretty boring compared to the sex with a guy who I'm really interested in that I'm in a longterm relationship with. And my attractions and fantasies are geared towards averagely Masculine guys like 100% of the time.

The guy on the left just has a sexier looking body. And his face looks better with some more meat on it.

I'm trying to communicate to you something about what women are attracted to about men. It isn't about settling for the "beta" guy. It's about PREFERRING the "beta" guy. This is where the disconnect comes from because men tend to find super ripped guys more attractive but women tend to find moderately strong guys more attractive that have a more fatherly appearance.

In my experience, I've always preferred men that other men would call "betas" and never had much interest in the super ripped hyper-Masculine kind of guys. It's about the energy of a guy who has both hard and soft qualities... and their body type is more attractive to me. But "beta" guys can also treat you badly. So, it's not such a rigid dichotomy as that. I'm sure there are total sweethearts that look like Arnold Swartzenegger... and terrible guys that look like Adam Sandler. But I've always been far more likely to be attracted to a guy who looks more like the latter.

Women do tend to develop attractions towards men who are their match looks-wise. But very attractive women also don't tend to go for super ripped guys, as they don't respond as well to it compared to moderately strong guys. Like, the guy in that picture is WAY more attractive before his transformation, imo. And I'm sure that very attractive women would say the same things. And they've done surveys of women (including attractive women) where they rated the male body types they liked, and very few women chose the ripped/jacked guys. So "ripped-ness" is not something that most women (regardless of attractiveness level) prefer. Men tend to have a really strong positive reaction to really jacked guys... as it is something that men respect and admire. And it has a lot of currency in male dominance hierarchies. But women don't value what male dominance hierarchies value... and are less likely to go for a jacked guy compared to a guy who's strong and has a normal or fit body type... or even a bit of a dad bod. Women in general tend to be drawn to men who look more fatherly with a mixture of hard and soft qualities. Men in general tend to appreciate the appearance of men who look physically intimidating and hyper-Masculine... and almost machinelike in their level of hardness and stoicism.

Weren't you just criticizing Vegans for disrespecting and undermining traditional culture?

Men are more attractive in motion, that's for sure. And men are attractive when they're doing something that shows their strength and physical capabilities. Plus, gym girls will tend to be interested in gym guys because of the shared interests. But that is beside the point of this video. The point is that men tend to value hyper-Masculinity in men and believe that women are also attracted to it. But women tend to be more attracted to men who are more average in their level of Masculinity and prefer a guy who has his Masculinity mixed in with traits that aren't typically considered Masculine. I keep trying to communicate this a lot of different ways on this forum because I see lots of men on here who are under the impression that they have to compete in some kind of male dominance hierarchy and be the top alpha male to be preferred by women. Women's preferences are a lot more geared towards the average guy than they are towards some gigachad of a guy.

Like I said, this dynamic is subtle and is one that men and women tend to naturally fall into in a long-term relationship. It's more akin to a husband fixing the sink to help his wife and her appreciating his efforts than it is anything super extreme. The best partnerships are quite eye-to-eye. But the Masculine/Feminine polarity is there when the man is more of the doer/leader and she is more of receiver/appreciator of his doing. So, that's what I mean by the woman being the prize and the man being the leader. It's just the Lover and Beloved archetype playing out in subtle ways in a relationship. But don't imagine anything too crazy or extreme. This has to happen in the context of a relatively equal partnership for it work out well or it won't work out. But for women in particular, it's really important to avoid pedestalizing the guy... and to not stick around in a relationship where the guy isn't as invested as you are. Things should either be equal or the guy should invest a bit more that you. Never stick around with a guy who feels lukewarm about you.

I'm sure your tastes will change and evolve as you age. It would be quite uncommon for a man in his mid-twenties to be attracted to a much older woman. Even most women don't find much older men attractive. So, it's normal that you don't find many women over the age of 30 attractive. As you age, you may still be attracted to younger women. But your upper range will probably continue to be a few years older than you, if it's already that now. I wouldn't worry too much about it.