Emerald

Trust me when I say, I've known MANY guys who "suck" across the board. But these guys who suck were also part of my wider social circle and had their own wider social circle. And thus, they were able to get girlfriends. For example, there was this guy that I used to know when I was a teenager that everyone called Walrus Boy because he looked like a walrus (sparse white mustache and all). And he was super awkward and not a very nice guy. And foremost, he was very creepy. He was the type of guy that most girls would specifically avoid interacting with. And yet... he had a wide social circle. And he had plenty of girlfriends over the years I was acquainted with him... though I was perplexed about that. Trust me when I say that I'm shocked that anyone is an incel. I've seen absolute trainwrecks of guys get girlfriends. But the thing that differentiates these guys is just that they were out socializing with a bunch of people.

Honestly, up until the later years of high school when I found myself, I was definitely someone who was on the bottom of the barrel in terms of social status in most social contexts. And so my friends (male and female) have usually also been people who would be considered nerds or social outcasts. People who, in school, would be part of the unpopular crowd. And so, a high number of the guys I dated in middle and early high school were nerd guys who were seen as unpopular. And I still have quite a lot of friends who are awkward nerdy guys. And of course, it's a bit harder for them to meet women and start relationships. But you know what, EVERY SINGLE ONE of those guys that I know have had girlfriends. Some of them now have wives. And so, the ONLY factor that I can see that's different between an Incel and my nerdy guy friends is that Incels have a shitty ideology and my friends don't... and that my nerdy guy friends regularly interact socially with both men and women and Incels don't. My nerdy guy friends have male friends and they have female friends. They have a rich social circle of accepting like-minded people around them. These Incel guys are guys who just don't socialize and who are bogged down in victim's mentality and low self-esteem. If they did socialize and resolve their self-esteem issues, they would eventually find a lady who's into them. But they have to stop playing that hierarchical game and trying to match up to some unrealistic standard of masculinity.

What I mostly glean from the article is that patriarchy sets up a power structure where a significant chunk of men never reproduce. That's surprising to me personally. I had assumed a relative parity in terms of the ratio of men and women who reproduce. And this means that the more patriarchal a society is the more that female sexuality will be controlled, commodified, and have a false sense of scarcity applied to it. This is done by applying all kinds of psychological control mechanisms around sexual shame and chastity for women. Hence, why slut shaming has been so prevalent. It keeps women and society at large policing their sexual desires... hence keeping the "commodity" safe. And then, the men who get the shittier end of the stick reproductively speaking, will have a high probability of being culled in a truly patriarchal society because they will be sent to war or to toil away to serve some rich guy. But these men, if they're kept around (as they are now) will keep trying the play the patriachal game that fucks them over in hopes of flipping the power structures in their favor... which requires a nearly revolutionary effort as you're fighting against the powers that be. So it is difficult for them to buck the patriarchal narrative that fucks them, because they see a glimmer of hope to become the top dog. But there is no real freedom there. It's just a very vicious power structure where women are commodified and men are constantly being ranked (with the possibility of being culled for ranking low). Ultimately, I see the solution being already set in motion. In my experience, my attractions don't have an extreme amount do with status and are very intuitive. It's about how I feel. They are also very monogamously oriented and love oriented. I can absolutely only have eyes for someone who is not objectively high status. And my guess is that this is not just me. I think it's how feminine sexuality actually is. I can see that, if women had things more their way and feminine principled traits like socialization and emotional intelligence were encouraged, then there would likely be a less hierarchical relationship set-up. It seems that the facts bear that out. Egalitarian hunter gather societies were 3 to 1 in terms of men and women who reproduced respectively. Where patriarchal societies (with hierarchical ranking and strong control over female sexuality) were 17 to 1 in terms of men and women who reproduced respectively. So, in a similar way to how (because of the way government serves corporations) there is extreme wealth inequality where it is rigged to where the rich get richer and poor get poorer... in an extreme patriarchy (which is not the situation we're in currently even though we still have many patriarchal elements in the system) you have very wealthy men having multiple wives where the bottom 95% of men don't reproduce at all. But overall, I see the solution for the individual Incel or man struggling with hierarchy, being to buck this deeply ingrained patriarchal narrative that tells them that they have to compete on this hierarchy to realize that the game is built so that there are a large number of men who lose it. Within that game, the weak ones are only there to justify the strong. And of course someone's self-esteem will be shit if they're attached to that game. To stop playing that game, all you need to do is be social and meet people... including women. There is a nearly equal number of women to men on the planet. There is no reason for that reproduction disparity to be there at all... especially since women tend to be very aversive to men having mistresses and other wives.

Yes exactly

Without emotions, there is nothing that tells you not to do the things that are harmful to yourself and others. So, if you truly had ZERO emotions at all, you probably wouldn't last very long. It would feel just the same to you to walk up to a bear as to walk into a phone booth.

Get more in touch with the body. Emotions arise as sensations in the body. So, emotional numbness can come about because we're too up in our heads and not connecting to the rest of the body.

Emotion is a human thing. It's what underlies all of our motivations. That would be like saying "Breathing is a female thing. So men shouldn't do it."

Yep!

@ertopolice Here are some really good resources for dating/relationships as a woman. It will help you better understand how certain male/female dynamics in dating works... The channels are by Adrienne Everheart, Helena Hart, and Brian Nox. So, I'll give you a few videos that could be relevant for you.

I wouldn't worry about any of this. Just hang around in spaces where people have a deeper orientation to life and you'll eventually find a woman who appreciates you as you are. Stage Orange women will be very interested in social status, that's true. And for all women, social status will be AN attraction factor in the same way that being tall, fit, or charismatic would be. It is attractive when a man has a certain social status. But most women don't seek out a man who's maxed out in terms of his social status because other factors are more important. A woman who is worth your time, will love you for you. And the social status thing will be more of a compatibility thing than the criterion for attraction. For example, a woman who's worth your time will seek a man at around her level of social status... mostly because that's who will be most compatible. So, a woman who is a college professor would likely be interested in a man who has taken a similar education path. So, she may opt not to date a man who hasn't gotten a degree. And a woman who is a grocery bagger will be okay with dating a guy in similar circumstances to her.

From what she wrote, she seems to be caught up in her masculine side. I honestly questioned at first if this was written by a man who was pretending to be a woman online. But I realized that it actually was a real woman once I got about half-way through. But if a woman is thinking about power and "Is this guy the best I can get?", then she's not really choosing from her heart. She's in a space of logic-mind and hierarchical understanding and superiority/inferiority. And the sex to her is seemingly a way for her to systematically prove her own value to herself. It's a mind game that she's playing with herself. If she were in her feminine side, she would not be in this mindset. She would be more attuned to her emotions and how a guy makes her feel. Usually, when women get caught up in their masculine side like this, it happens because they've had to numb themselves out and create a hard shell. And power becomes very important for safety and for grappling with feelings of low self-esteem and inferiority. There are certain things within this post she made that reminds me of certain coping mechanisms that I've employed at earlier times in my life. And trying to get power this way, unfortunately ends up robbing a woman of her power because she is deriving her power by playing a certain role in the masculine empowerment story. And so she won't be able to find her own empowerment that way, because the story isn't written with her empowerment in mind. My advice to her would be to ask herself why she wants that power? What is that power a currency for? What does it mean to be superior? What does it mean to be inferior?

I make my romantic decisions more off of the feelings that I have for the person. So, I don't specifically search for particular virtues. But I do have some dealbreakers... - The man has to be my equal in terms of intelligence and thoughtfulness - The man has to be a good person - The man has to be on a similar life-path to me. Other than that, I don't specifically try to seek out a man with "x,y, and z" traits. I let my heart make the decision.

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I recommend just touching base with your feelings. This might drive you crazy but... To be up in the head about things and to be worried about whether something is categorically masculine or feminine, is to be stuck in the masculine. Just feel. There's no wrong way to do it.

That's just not going to work.

I see

Many men do like it when women approach. Just look through the thread if you don’t believe me. Why wouldn’t they? It makes it easier for them. But as I’ve said before, it usually isn’t the best idea. Many men may like when a woman approaches, but they don’t usually respond to it with a desire to go deeper.

What emotions were you trying to experience by spending that money on that? Is it just the sexual feelings? Or is there some other emotional experience that you’re seeking?

It can work out sometimes. But overall, it’s far less likely to. So, it isn’t anything I’d recommend to a woman. Mind you, men do like it when women approach because it makes in easier for them. But with the way that male sexuality generally works, it’s not such a good idea. A man’s attraction begins in the lions, then goes to the heart, and then eventually ends up in the head. Women generally go the opposite way where that attraction begins in the mind, then to the heart, and then to the loins. So, approaching a man and making it easy for him, makes it far more likely that his attraction won’t go past the loins. There usually has to be some challenge to slow things down, so that the attraction can rise for him to the heart and mind.

The point is that Leo (as an influencer) is really unwise to just say a one-word “lol” at someone’s post about suicidal ideation. And he did change his post shortly afterwards because he probably realized the same thing. Really, anybody would be unwise to do that... but especially someone with influence. Also, you don’t know this person and what they’re going through. For all you know, the person has attempted suicide before. People commit suicide ALL the time. So, don’t be so sure that a person won’t actually do it.

Leo had just written “lol” at first. And since Leo has a lot of influence on certain members of his audience, he would be wise to orient to people’s suicidal ideation in a more sensitive way. Really anybody should... but especially Leo within this context. But I firmly disagree with you about laughing at someone’s body dysmorphia, self-esteem issues, and suicidal ideation as an effective way to deal with that. Tough love can and often does backfire in these cases... most cases actually. There are people out there who are thin as a toothpick and starve themselves to death because they genuinely believe that they’re fat. Why wouldn’t there also be men of average height that believe they’re short?

My husband is 5’8” and I’m 5’2”. To me, he is very tall. He’s like half a head taller than me. You have to understand that, while most women have a general preference for taller men, short women will have a different way of defining tall. Honestly, most women don’t get too hung up on that, as long as you’re taller than they are. But even some women will date shorter guys. So honestly, you just have to work on self-esteem stuff and just keep trying. You’ll have success eventually.

Don’t just lol him. He’s considering suicide. Obviously you’re loling him because you know that he can be successful. But that’s not how a suicidal person will interpret that.

He misread the chart, I'm sure.

It's a chart about who is more likely to be vaccinated. It isn't a chart about men and women. That's just one of the demographics they tested. But it's structured in a confusing way. It's saying that the average Biden voter is 20% more likely than average to get vaccinated. And concurrently it shows that the average Trump voter is 10% less likely than average to get vaccinated. So, the average Biden voter is 30% more likely than the average Trump voter to get vaccinated. So, the statistics about men and women are the women tend to get the vaccine at a rate that reflects the national average (no more, no less), whereas men are 5% more likely than average to get the vaccine. This means, that men are statistically 5% more likely to get vaccinated than women. Honestly, it's kind of a margin of error thing. That means, the chart is probably pretty accurate... albeit structured in a confusing way. But the meaning that the OP derived from the chart is coming from a misunderstanding of the chart. I think he read it to mean that women don't get the vaccine at all because there's no arrow on their statistic. But the arrow just shows deviation from the average.