Valach

I agree that higher stages integrate the healthy aspects of lower stages rather than rejecting them. There's nothing inherently wrong with ambition, business, social media, or building systems—those are valuable Orange capacities. My point is that what you're describing is still primarily an Orange value system. Throughout the thread the emphasis is on optimization, leverage, scaling, status, access to higher-caliber women, and maximizing results. That's a perfectly legitimate perspective, but let's call it what it is. As I've developed, I've found that I care less about whether someone is successful in one domain and more about the values they embody as a whole. Teachers don't just transmit techniques—they also transmit the worldview and priorities behind those techniques. So yes, I can absolutely learn event hosting or social media from someone like Sartain. But if their underlying philosophy revolves around optimizing status, women, and external success, I'm going to be much more selective about how much I model myself after them. Effectiveness is important, but it's no longer the only metric I use.

Yea, which are all stage orange values. That's fine, but let's call it what it is.

Which is precisely a stage orange approach that you are describing. "The end justifies the means".

That's kinda funny. But to be honest at 14, most kids are akward around recieveing affection.

Ofcourse, but they are hanging out with deeply dysfunctional people. Who really cares if they are more succesfull at this domain. You are not gonna build a stable relationships with them anyways. And also it is that inner insecurity (which narcissism tries to cover) that motivates them to get all this success. Healthy people are not really that much driven to get all that ass or money.

@Leo Gura I do not have that experience at all. Sure some woman are going to be drawn to it. But these deeply visible narcissists got rejected a lot by woman because they can see through their shit. I am not saying that dysfunctional men are not attractive ever. But woman are not that stupid in my experience. People in general are stupid around dating, don't get me wrong. Just do not have this almost caricature like experience a lot of redpill/PUA describes. Some chill, fun guy who has normal social skills and level of self esteem is doing way better than Trump level narcissists.

Most people are insecure and resonate with people on their wavelength.

I think you vastly overestimate how many options (and options worth even considering) woman have.

If they would be able to connect to their own feminine side which is repressed, it would be so much easier connecting and understanding woman.

I always liked the quote about leadership from Dune: "A great man doesn't seek to lead. He's called to it. And he answers."

Not gonna watch, I am over my BDSM phase.

Which is like basically most of the people on planet lol.

You can easily respect someone without fearing them. I can respect my 90 year old grandma for the woman she is. I don't have any fear towards her.

@Natasha Tori Maru I would prefer respect. I don't really value love that much as I know what it means to most of people (romantic one). That being said, respect is not something I crave that much. In my country it is not really common to say this to someone (don't think I ever heard it from a woman). What I crave is being seen and being heard. That's the shit. At least for me

Fear has nothing to do with respect. And it is not the opposite of love. At least romantic one.

I don't think scoring as secure on an attachment test really proves someone is securely attached. Self-report questionnaires have limitations, and it's surprisingly easy—for anyone—to answer in a way that reflects how they see themselves rather than how they actually react under stress. Most people also don't have perfect self-awareness. What stands out to me is less the test and more the pattern of behavior. One of the hallmarks of insecure attachment is that close relationships activate a disproportionate amount of anxiety. The OP isn't just thoughtfully weighing the pros and cons of buying a flat. He describes months of avoidance, intense anxiety, inability to plan a vacation because he expected the relationship to end, and rapidly oscillating between wanting to commit and wanting to leave. That doesn't prove he has an insecure attachment style, but it does suggest there's something deeper going on than simply asking, "Is she the right partner?" A securely attached person can absolutely decide to end an eight-year relationship. The difference is that the decision is more likely to come from a relatively grounded evaluation of compatibility and values rather than being driven by intense fear and inner conflict.

No point engaging this. There are places for these abstract discussion but not where a guy is struggling with simple problem like OP.

Sure, if you redefine "food" broadly enough, then everything is food because everything is energy. I was obviously speaking about the psychological analogy. A partner isn't a biological necessity in the same sense that food is, so using food as an analogy for relationships isn't very informative.

Nobody is saying attraction or compatibility don't matter. They obviously do. But in this specific case, the OP has been with a loving, reliable partner for eight years and describes intense anxiety whenever commitment becomes more concrete. That immediately raises the question of whether this is actually about her, or whether it's about his relationship to commitment itself. If someone has an avoidant attachment style, chronic anxiety, or is constantly searching for certainty, a different partner often won't solve the problem. The same doubts simply reappear in the next relationship after the honeymoon phase ends. The important question isn't "Can I find someone hotter?" It's "Am I leaving because this relationship genuinely isn't right for me, or because my nervous system interprets commitment itself as a threat?" Those are two completely different reasons to end a relationship, and confusing them can lead to repeating the same pattern over and over.

It will still want good things. The thing is that what a good thing for good life is might not be the most attractive woman. I've seen it many times. Woman are not food.

Sure but you also need to have deep self awareness on knowing why you are seeking the things you want for yourself in the first place. And that is a very hard thing to have. Eg Do you seek the hottest partner because that is your authentic desire or are you doing so get self worth through them? To compensate for the wounded child within? Even I can not answer that truthfully.

mistake

Passion is a very temporary thing. You can not base your relationships on passion. Any realationship will not feel as passionate after years as it was in the beginning. The seeking of best available partner is precisely the opposite of enlightenment. You are seeking something to compensate for lack within.

Obviously vast majority of woman I dated were insecure because those are the ones I was attracted to and also they were attracted to me. On top of that like 95% of population is insecure in my opinion, so it is hard to find the secure ones.

But how does a secure person decides to stay after some abusive, non-aligned behaviour starts happening in a relationship. I am not saying your friend is not secure, I can't know that. My understanding is that the secure person is a person with high self esteem, somatic feeling of safety in their body who respect other people but primarily respect their own body and emotions and integrity. So my understanding is that such person would leave dysfunctional relationship right after being shown signs of any abuse/disrespect whatsoever. I was and still am probably (not dating at the moment) heavy avoidant. It was always only fairly insecure woman who tolerated my behaviour. The secure ones, the moment I pulled one of my avoidant strategies such as being hot and cold, not knowing what I want, emotionally closed off - they dropped me immediately and rightly so. And I was in no way abusive, just a typical avoidant