kieranperez

@Adam M great dolphin analogy. You actually think you’re invented distinctions are real without noticing that you in fact were the very one who invented them.

Any distinction you come up with is not fundamental. It is a relative distinction you came up with. In other words... you literally made up 2+2=4. You invented that entire world for there to even be that distinction. Anything that you invent and create is not fundamental. If it is not fundamental, it is not Absolute by definition. However, at the same time it is included in the Absolute. It existence is the illusion... and you created it. When you taste the Absolute for the first time, you’ll know. That right there is a truth lol... just an Absolute one. You’re conflating Absolute and relative as the same. All relative truths are illusions (they exist as the illusion). Absolute transcends all of that yet includes that. Because you can become conscious that you invented that. You invented “right” and “wrong”. You were programmed with that distinction. You can become aware that you, this silly character you think you are is an entire fake molding built of indoctrination, programmed beliefs, values, emotional triggers, dogmas, character traits, preferences that you pretty much had no awareness of as it happened. You can become aware that the “other” that programmed you to believe “right” and “wrong” are none other than you and you will have no one else to look to other than of course, yourself. Right and wrong are not fundamental. They are fabrications for a purpose. By reading your questions. Your questions and responses says it all.

I demand your marathon PR sir! Btw I totally agree with this. The development and growth from a bad trip also helps puts the difficulty of the Sunday long run into perspective

This is a great talk and video series given from Ken Wilber on www.integrallife.com In this talk series (each video about 30 min) Wilber covers the following topics: A more in depth explanation of how and why his stages of development is more nuanced in order to include more lines of development and be more comprehensive (why he doesn't stick with the same Spiral Dynamics color theme) Cognitive Development Moral Development Ego/Self-Identity Development (this forum needs better understanding of this) Values Development Needs Development Ethics Development Emotional Development (EQ) Interpersonal, Intrapersonal, Kinesthetic, and Spiritual Lines Aesthetic & Volitional Lines Cognitive, Self-Reltated, and Talent Lines Talents, Gifts, and Capacities Values & Cognition and MORE! You do have to be a member to watch the full series and I HIGHLY recommend you join Integral LIfe. It's free for an account but you can also get a premium account which for the price, I think is fucking worth it. It's $1 the first month and $10 p/month... However, this isn't supposed to be some sponsor plug or anything. It's a great talk and thought I'd share

Towards?... and I don’t just mean God... don’t play coy

@Leo Gura I think people underestimate the degree to which they can shift. I’ll give a simple example of my own backstory: I’ve always had the body of a runner. Though I used to be a lot shorter (relative to my classmates I was usually always one of the smallest), I’m now 6’0”. I’ve always been very skinny yet athletic with a borderline freakish metabolism. However I always was one of the slowest. I always admired fast people as a kid. Looked cool they way they moved. However when i was a on team sport when it was time to run, I lost to all the fat kids. I was already tried in school when it came to PE and in 6th grade we ran the mile and I ran 12ish minutes trying with everything. I remember being dead. I can’t explain what happened but I remember all of a sudden something changed in my running. All of a sudden something in my form/experience changed. It was more doable. I was getting faster. So much so that by the end of 7th grade I was under 6 for the mile and I was then one of the fastest in my county and then a year later I was beating kids who have now gone on to be professional athletes, state champs, and national class runners. The talent I have in running (which if you look at my times I’m really not that special - I’m definitely not up there at all) stayed the same. Though sometimes it takes a fortunate change in experience, you can also do that consciously - which is just what we call personal development. I personally don’t know much about the deep science of the brain and nervous system as far as talent. I have though met and have friends who are Olympic medal winners, met Zen masters, etc. and I’ve also had those moments where I’ve fallen short of my goal but in doing so still give what I had... and man. You don’t need to be an Olympian, Enlightened Jesus that’s at whatever “idea” stage of development that can read minds and walk on water, etc. to get the satisfaction of giving everything you had. You don’t need to be a freak of nature to have that satisfaction. Consciousness work and mastery beyond spirituality (in - your - art, philosophy, your impact - small or big - etc.) to me just seems like the area most worth doing that in. I think people, and I fall into this too, fall into this trap of needing to reach this mythical perfection across all boards because they really struggle with the fact that they can’t accept their limitations and thus try to overcompensate. I did that with my running for years as my buddies got better and started winning and I still was going nowhere and I just lived in my fantasies trying to compensate because I couldn’t cope with the reality that I’m just not as good as those guys despite how hard I worked and how much I loved the sport. When you can disregard all of that and walk your path, that’s how you know you’re on the right path... and that’s just fine.

It’s a habit you pick up. I really realized this when I looked into the background of my own avoidance when it comes to money. I realized money was never part of my self/character as something that was ever really that important. I investigsged this and within a matter of less than a minute realized that I invented avoidance tactics to cope with my dysfunctional household because my mom sabotaged our family’s finances due to her mental illness. Not only that (going into identification and the source of how one accurate their character) my dad pointed out all these tendencies in me because I had mental health stuff so avoidance went beyond an overlooked avoidance/coping tactic but sneakily invented this part in my self that didn’t have much concern for money and that I didn’t want to be involved with such matters... and that’s just one aspect. When you realize just how deep your “social self” runs your life and how false it is.. it’s shocking. That’s the number one thing I’m noticing right now for me. I dont know about anybody else but for me I’ve become completely clueless about how to relate to my own experience, myself, and to other people authentically since the notion of self still is deeply embedded and I still have a lot of neurosis and trauma to work through. Emotions are like the circuitry that keep that running and changing that is beyond mediation. It’s fucking hard and extremely confusing. Especially if you’re not that far along. Ralston is gold when it comes to this stuff. I will say though, as far as talent... I’m noticing the more open I become the more I’ve experienced more paranormal stuff happening in terms of random astral projections as I sleep, chakras firing off before I go to bed, 3rd eye openings, etc. and also just a bigger motivation for Truth.

How do YOU find out about these people? Just balls deep in research? Where do you even tend to find these people geographically at least? My intent for near the end of this year and 2020 is to meet these people but I don’t get how you find out about these people.

I’m noticing just how much my entire emotional system is built around keeping me from being conscious of what is. When I’m running, I’m not conscious and aware of actually running where I’m aware of my landing, the ground, the technical trail I’m running down where I need to watch my footing, etc. I’m conscious of the emotional stimulus that I’m used to being governed by day-day and I’m lost in my head which will lead to me tripping or (come close to) busting an ankle. I feel a deep seeded neuroses and emotional block that I can just feel is there from the bottom of my throat through the center of my chest (surrounding the 4th chakra) and also in my head. When I feel hurt by a situation (let’s say my bus drives past me and I chase it down but eventually it zooms off or I made some mistake) and I feel this anger, I recognize automatically that I’m actually hurt how defeated I feel, I don’t know how to respond and relate to that in an honest yet practical way to. When I start becoming aware that I’m literally holding this feeling of being depressed as I walk around as a habit or when I’m feeling dominated by my mind when I try and sit and I’m twitching and squirming because I’m so anxious and can’t concentrate and I feel so frustrated in yet I know this is something I’m doing... this system just fights back. I might have a straight face and I’ll counter that with a lighter smile by seeing the beauty at say a view and I’ll literally feel this psychological force that “taints” it and my lips are literally shaking like an a fatigued bicep doing curls till failure, trying to get back into that straight dead face... I really don’t know what to do about this. I could really use advice. This egoic structure is so deep I have no idea how to conquer this. Sitting in meditation is fucking hard. Being authentic feels impossible. Even running. There’s no area of day-day experience that this problem does not infect. I’m currently considering learning and taking up Hatha Yoga to get more back in touch with my body and also because I think it will help my studies in general + loosen up more. Despite all the mobility work I’ve done in conjunction to my running, I’m now extrodinarily stiff. all over. I want to take Shamanic breathing more seriously too but the question I have on that front is when the patterns come back.

I'm dying LOL

@still_no_satori lol I love your username

I’m going to start a restaurant that sells BBQ Devils. Freshly caught by @Leo Gura My specials are the ones in churches, universities, and country clubs. Homemade BBQ sauce that goes great on the side.

What is meant by this exactly?

A perfect metaphor for @Leo Gura catching devils. ”I catch epistemic blunders, deep insights, devils, and gar... lots of gar.”

Moral of the story... standing on the edge of the Golden Gate Bridge about to jump isn’t the best path enlightenment. These odd cases are prevalent among all domains of mastery. For example, Michael Jordan is 6’6” and the next tallest person down from him is his dad whose 5’7”. There will always be those odd cases. You also have to consider past lives and past karma and man that can make it even hairier. Sadhguru in his biography and many YouTube video for example refers to his extreme clarity and recollection of past lives of hardcore spiritual work where he spent multiple lifetimes of work. Of course, none of his past life times were within his immediate family tree as far as blood relatives go in the conventional sense. So it makes sense as to how Sadhguru at 25 with no work at all in this current life time sit on a rock after work and then be fully enlightened... and there was still time spent integrating his past lives and so forth but basically was done and has been living in this constant God consciousness ever since and is able to run organizations and stuff. To model one’s path off these freaks of nature and downright anomalies just isn’t smart. All because you’re very accomplished doesn’t make you a great teacher. You can be a great athlete and have accomplished a lot but that doesn’t mean you understand and can relate to everyone else. If you want to know how to ride a horse, don’t talk to the horse. Which is not to say don’t learn from these people but these guys still can lack an accurate frame of reference.

Emotions fundamentally are thoughts. Emotions and they’re reactions are wired ways of trying to keep your familiar character in tact. Emotions need to be questioned. Thi whole “it cant be described” thing has its limits. Yeah I can’t really accurately convey in any sense certain aspects of when my 3rd eye opens. But to say I can’t describe any of it is bullshit. I can feel a massive energetic sensation opening in my forehead. I feel the point from where my spine ends and skull meet sending massive energy to that point and interconnecting with other points along my skull. When it opens I can (I’m using this as a hypothetical example, I’m not saying this happens to me) read a book without opening it but by merely holding it in my hands. That I can describe. If someone can go as far as to say I got a direct download from God and it was a massive epiphany that causes me to change some action or make a new decision or something (pick your causal effect), they clearly have enough to cognition to interpret that. Sure it may not be 100% accurate but that doesn’t diminish the value of attempting to communicate it beyond mere contrasting analogy (it’s like this...)..

Concrete example? I get what you’re saying as abstract example but what might be a practical example (as best as you can reasonably describe it with words).

@Harikrishnan Same in Greece. You can have them anywhere in the world. I think people get too hung up on how India is the only place for that sort of stuff and that somehow their culture is the best as far as spiritual practices and cultures go.

I wouldn’t get too hung up on the India part. You can have temples in other places too.

Share any and all you got on this. I've been wanting to study and learn this very deeply. Awesome! Yeah that's why I really want to study it. I love how Sadhguru hammers that point home.

100% agree. The way you know you’re integrating and owning your shadow material, conquerring uour own neuroses, purifying yourself emotionally is the degree to which you live authentically.

I’m so glad there’s finally a down to earth discussion on this forum about this matter. So for one, thank you @Matt8800. Does the occult sciences relate to say how say certain temples were consecrated? Particularly with things like lingams and what not? I’ve heard Sadhguru talk about this a lot but of course, keeps tight lipped when it comes to what that process entails and what that science actually is but he’s said things like lingas and temples and what not are all about transferring energy into an object and keeping it locked in there. Does this relate to what you’re talking about? How can I learn more about this? Do you think books are sufficient? Here’s a great video on Breaking Convention

I am grateful for all the bizarre GIFs @Sahil Pandit texts me.

Good eye. I’ve said this before. Ralston is so clear and precise that people often overlook what he’s saying. Those books need to really be read so slowly in order to even somewhat grasp what he’s even trying to convey. As @Leo Gura says that I find true, “Ralston is a sneaky one”.

Chapter 1 I love that book and Ralston's work.