SOUL

I find it interesting that on a forum which the creator of it is such a proponent of the self is an illusion idea would allow positive feedback to be called reputation since it echoes of self identity. Maybe the forum software doesn't permit to change that word to something else but if it can then I would welcome it.

@zazed I know this might not make any sense but I understand a person's message from how they use their words, not which words they use. The enlightening process is mysterious enough.

We need to? That's an impossible task. I can barely understand my own perspective after countless hours of meditation and contemplation but I need to understand the perspective of others from a little discussion? Sure I am open to hearing how others express their ideas and hope to gain an understanding of their perspective but I'm not sure I can even begin to communicate my own if I am trying to translate into their words as I'm doing it......without knowing their definitions... or context.....or symbology.....and if there's more than one I'm speaking with... for all of them at once. If your perspective and the words you use to represent it works for you in achieving what you seek then celebrate that, you are further along the path than so many others even of them that have taken on the journey. I prefer to look past the words and hear the message a person is communicating because as we both have agreed that words can be limiting, like a limiting belief of language. I don't care about the words, I'll throw all of my words out and use any of them, I'll use yours, it doesn't matter. Then the next person comes along and i have to rewrite my dictionary with their words, then again for the next person, then if there's more than one I will have a different dictionary for all of them. I"m not so hung up on my words as if i think there's something "right" about them. Although to give you some insight into my perspective if i can do so, I approach it in a pragmatic manner so I can have a practical framing to do my inner work. I have very little to no "magical" aspects to it which sometimes can be challenging since so many of the ideas and concepts about it are so abstract including consciousness itself. This leads me to be agnostic so to speak about a number popular ideas and concepts within spiritual and self-whatevering communities. I don't really embrace the need to spend too much time parsing words and definitions, that's just my perspective I guess.

Every moment is part of the enlightening process, as cliche as it is, it's not a destination, it's a journey.

Most definitely using words to describe abstract ideas and concepts has it's limitations and challenges. Unfortunately, it appears I haven't done that well in describing the concepts behind the words because those descriptions of what you think are mine on those words aren't what the represent to me. So I'm not sure if more words will be able to clarify my ideas. Although i have to wonder why it is you think that "consciousness can't express itself". Maybe this is just another instance that language falls short in describing the abstract but I would be open to hearing more of an explanation of that. What most teachers equate doesn't matter to me, either, I'm not here trying to emulate anyone else, I share from my own experience and if it differs, so be it. Our body has different methods of expressing the stored experience and how it contextualizes the present moment for our awareness, some of them may fall under the general word of thoughts that happen in the mind but there are many distinct varieties of mental, emotional and physical impulses in how we become aware of them. It may just be beyond words to clarify, though.

A body has different parts that work in their own way to create the whole, so it is with consciousness.

So you say you're tired of questions, then ask a few more. Hmm

You didn't quote a comment of mine so I'm not sure what you are disagreeing with since I have replied a number of times in this thread. Although if I were to take a guess from your comment I would think you are referring to my initial reply when I asked "why tell anyone". I wasn't trying to be critical of them or undermining their experience at all, my apologies if anyone thought I was, it was really just a tongue in cheek question reflecting the paradox of the idea in losing one's ego and speaking about it. As the thread continued it actually opened up some interesting discussion and exchange of ideas. We use words to communicate and yes, these are simply representations of ideas and concepts which can be a challenge to define and know if another has the same representations but I in no way intended to play with words to confuse or disrupt the discussion. I am open to all ideas but I explore and examine them all, especially my own. While I appreciate your gesture to defend the individual in expressing their own experiences and sharing it with others you may be misunderstanding my intent here.

Oh hah, that last line is just a joke about hipsters and their esoteric culture mindset.

There is much made about control...do we or don't we? Can we or can't we? This is dichotomy thinking. I avoid opposition mindset like hipsters avoid gluten. I prefer optional viewpoints but you probably haven't heard of them anyway.

Emotions are physical stimuli that don't have good/bad or even positive/negative inherent about them and they are meant to be used to guide us in the present moment but they come from our associations of the past. How they influence us in the present, sure, can have beneficial, detrimental or no effects in how we react to them. It can be without ever viewing it as good or bad, positive or negative... it just is Or not.... you can see it any way you wish to.

It did have a great impact in my teenage years, it gave me a way to vent my angst but now it has too much impact on my ears. I've moved on to other styles to impact my consciousness.

It's very kind of you to say that but I'm just a fellow seeker who speaks from my experience and if anyone does learn something from it, it is not me teaching them, it's them recognizing something in their own being they are made aware of by looking for it.

Well, I don't view the mind as being just ego or the ego being all the mind is. I see the mind as the canvas that consciousness expresses itself on in my being, while ego is a facet of the self which my mind can be aware of.

Through contemplation.

I wouldn't know how to define ego either but I am well aware of how it moves in me. It attempts to tie everything from the past together in an identity and offers it to my in the moment awareness for endorsing to influence my present perspective. Although, I am not forced to accept it's offer to identify with the past, my awareness is free to create the present moment perspective in any way I seek. How is it defined? Who knows and it's not my concern to define it.

When we have an experience and everything associated with that experience like our intentions, thoughts, feelings as well as the actual happenings that take place get recorded, so to speak, in our self, both on conscious and unconscious levels. Our ego has access to all of this self "stuff" and uses it to construct it's identity.

I guess that would only be known to us whether the humbleness is mock or genuine. The ego by nature isn't just negative, it's a facet of the self and a reflection of our experience by unifying it as an identity, although by this natural manifestation it can identify in ways that negatively influence our consciousness. That's where self awareness becomes a valuable exercise in recognizing the ego's influence in us.

@Barna The self is a lifetime of experience that has it's associations and influences which create an "our survival manual" within our mind. This is the natural expression of self for us as human beings. The ego is the liaison between this subconscious manual and the observer, our in the moment awareness, using it's access to the subconscious manual to impress in our consciousness it's importance to us as it's justification. As you continue to awaken, your ego will reflect your "awaken-ness" to your awareness. The ego only is what you give the self through intentional living, as that will enlighten so will what the ego identifies with.

We all have biases and they can cause negative thoughts and feelings in us. When we allow the negativity to cultivate animosity or hatred of others rooted in this bias it results in one of the "isms" or "phobias". Although, you are aware of these biases in you, if you aren't letting it become a hatred you aren't an "ist", it's just a simple bias and we all have them from our experiences in life. If you would like to change that bias you need to have other experiences that counter the bias and provide evidence for a different bias to it, a positive one. I know you got some love for being honest in admitting it but I would say you aren't one to begin with, you are just a human being trying to manage the bias conditioned in you that may not even be of your own doing, they rarely are with stuff like this. You are working to change this in you, that shows you aren't one, just another work in progress of healing.

When the influence of why you sing outweighs the influence of others opinions of it you will joyfully sing no matter who hears it or what they have to say about it. Oh... and I'm a terrible singer, no amount of practice could change it, I don't even want to subject my steering wheel or shower curtains to the cat screech coming out of my mouth. So sing if it brings you joy, just sing.

It was a rhetorical question but your answer did reveal quite a bit. The ego wants to be justified so it moved you to tell others of it's own "disappearance" to justify it's existence as "non-existent" using the identity of the wider reality you say you are now seeing your self as being and the happiness for all in it as it's reasoning. Even "higher self" realizations can be used as ego desire for justification and can be seeds for it growing back in influence in us. Then when we accept, agree and act in accordance with the ego's desire it gets it's justification so the ego finds it's place comfortably nestled within our being cloaked in it's new clothes(identity) by representing what we seek in our spiritual pursuits. The ego is crafty. I appreciate you answering my question, it's enlightened my perspective greatly.

Since duality is a fabrication of the mind in removing that paradigm it allows for a non-duality perspective.to exist.

i have just one question. If the ego disappears, why tell anyone?

This is where I started the process decades ago, to end the misery and to just be happy. Though in time the goal shifted from what my young mind was thinking of, what I later understood as situational happiness, to seeking out being at peace and in joy. Enlightenment is not my intent then or even now, it is a byproduct of the process of my healing which came with awakening.