SOUL

I really do appreciate your contributions here and the 'know it' trap is a very common one but I hope you would consider more the denial of the natural consciousness, it's not an enemy or a trap unless we make it one. Too often people on the 'enlightenment path' set it up to be just that, a boogeyman, so it becomes a game of whack-a-mole and an ever present stumbling block to their inner work. Make friends with the ego so when we ask it to step aside for the benefit of our whole being it will do it embracing that role as an active participant and significant contributor in the process. Yes, the ego will gleefully leap into the fire of it's own destruction like the sacrifice in the ritual of liberation from it's own suffering setting free awareness to awaken to the infinite.... in fact, it will want to, it will beg to!

I do see, I see a repetitive denial. The most curious part is the denying of the natural consciousness, a wholly dismissing of it with no accepting of it let alone any embracing of it. The natural expression of consciousness in the manifest has it's role in our life as a being, the work we do can be so much more effective if we work with it, not to be dominated or distracted by it and not against it but in harmony with it. So you think you're right about not getting to be right? Do you think you are right others don't understand the mind? I do see, I see the trap, I wonder if you see it...... do you see it?

So you are a slave to your thoughts especially when others confirm the bias you already have. If it comes from the mind that's part of the so-called illusion why would you even trust these thoughts? Wouldn't that means they are false? You are so sure you know how most people think of what free will is why would you assume that? From your own mind's thoughts again? Plus you think they are wrong about them from your own assumptions? How can we decide to do anything if we have no choice, we are just forced to do it by causes, right? Then you contradict yourself and say nothing is true but again it's only other people's ideas about free will that are wrong, the ones you assume they are having. It appears you may consider revisiting these things in your contemplation, there remains some conflict in them.

I stand corrected, Tolle is your master and you worship at his thought temple with the dualism belief in the either-or of the will. It's fascinating the complexity of the story people create in their mind about it then tell others it also applies to them, who believe it and tell others who write books and make videos about it telling others it's their truth who believe it, too. I accept what is and am at peace with being..... whatever you want to call it or believe about it.

So you don't have any choice to tell others they don't have one either? You don't have any answers, you are a thought slave and dualism is your master.

Well, reality isn't always as it appears and an illusion is exactly what it is.

Yup, and even if you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

Blasphemer! You will call it nothing and like it or be kicked out of the club!

It's all really just 'bullshit', it just depends on where one draws the line between the bull and the shit, if one draws it at all.

This is the issue with trying to use words for abstract spiritual concepts, everybody has different interpretations and concepts in which nearly everyone thinks their own is accurate.

I'm amazed by the people who 'think' they are thought slaves that are really nothing that are 'forced' to tell everyone else they are thought slaves of nothing, too.....those sure are some interesting beliefs but they are your own personal truth and they are not universal 'truth' or reality at all, just yours.

The self conscious is self aware from a self preservation perspective biologically and is causal which includes all involuntary actions, the ego is the 'interface' between the self conscious and our present moment awareness, which is the 'voluntary' part of our consciousness and the ego's job is to convince us to behave voluntarily on behalf of the self conscious impulses. This is where the freedom in willful action comes in, we can either act on what the ego influences us to or we can not.The ego creates a compelling narrative, a story to influence us into action. When we were simple primitive creatures it was primitive but as we evolved into complex social creatures it's devices evolved into a complex narrative along with it. Although we can bypass the story altogether and act on primitive impulse or not, what is voluntary is still voluntary.

I don't understand how an individual can simultaneously hold the belief that enlightenment exists and free will doesn't. Also, 'influence' isn't the same thing as 'force' but it seems some people think they are.

With one eye open.... the third eye.

Pay no mind to what the naysayers say for they say their nay because they know no other way. Beyond the histrionics of your post there is wisdom in your message.... Embracing the simplicity of just being in the present is rarely 'enough' to entertain the ego's need for validation but if you can be at peace and fulfilled in just being present in life you experience an awakening that transcends all the "enlightenment" rhetoric.

@spicy_pickles Your healing is right now, your peace(happiness/joy/fulfillment) is right now. As long as you don't intend to hurt anyone else even though you can't control whether someone feels hurt, it's not really a matter of what's right or wrong. Do what you have to do to realize that healing, to be that peace. It's not all that beneficial to see yourself as broken, that's the healing that I refer to, it's not broken, just evolving and being at peace with where you are at presently even if you are working on yourself. It's kind of a paradox to be contented with present state of being and working on ourselves simultaneously but that's the way it is. We cannot cease to change, it's inevitable, although we can have influence with the change that happens, that's the work we do. I also found myself in a relationship I realized wasn't one to last too much longer but I stayed in it because I thought that the peace I had could be part of the process that they needed to heal their own suffering. Not saying that's like your situation but what I learned is that I cannot help someone do something they didn't want for themselves and in the mean time the peace I had was tested. I still had the peace in mind but the stress manifested in other ways in my body, I wasn't as healthy, all sorts of nagging ailments. My finances and home life were hindered, too. At the time I thought this was just a way to see if I really could be at peace regardless of the ups and downs of life, it's inner peace after all, not dependent on external circumstance but eventually I had to move on, it just wasn't healthy. I cannot advise you to stay or go, how long or soon or what to do about it but will say do keep to your inner work and find peace now... be at peace right now in this moment, every moment. The details of the how it works out will reveal themselves in time and if you are doing the inner work you will recognize them in that moment. Peace.

@LaucherJunge The middle way isn't just an alternative to the two sides, it's all three of them and also none of them by not perceiving them as separate, so is unity.

Yes, it is called riding the bus.

When I didn't have peace I sought it, now I am at peace with life, so "seek" is just a word I chose to describe the inner process of letting go of the self created suffering caused by chasing knowledge and instead just be at peace. Awareness is an inner observer so when I use 'seek' it is in the spirit of awareness observing this change in my being. You shouldn't let one word distract you as much as it did, I could pick apart your words but they are just words and I understand how words often fall short of expressing the experience of awareness. You chose "realize", maybe I should tell you that you don't have to realize anything, that your realizing is keeping you from it so stop it, you should just "be" it. Then you will find another word to tell me I shouldn't "be" it, that my "being" it is keeping me from it so I should stop "being" it..... then another word....and another word...... and another word completely missing the point of the experience in awareness we are referring instead getting distracted by words. Or how about stop stopping it and start starting it... or stop starting it and just be it! We can read anything we want into words even if it's more of a reflection of our own perception than it is the other's experience. Is that enough words for you? Did I choose the 'right' ones?

@Nahm Yes and as soon as it is filtered through the mind in any way, shape or form of idea, concept or word in an attempt to understand or know it is belief and ceases to be it's genuine nature.

.@Nahm All these concepts and words being used are filtered through the prism of the mind. So even to know it is still the mind trying to grasp it in understanding. This is the mind trusting it's own perception which is why as soon as it changes from pure experience in awareness to 'knowing' it becomes belief.

@Nahm It sure does because it goes from experience into a concept that forms a paradigm which is believed by the mind then told to another. We experience in awareness without concepts or words but the mind tries to understand through concepts and communicate with words so it falls from the genuine nature.

... but it moves back into belief when it's told to someone else.

Inner peace isn't about being calm, it's contentment, as in being at peace regardless of the amount of activity going on in life. A lack of inner peace is the source of turmoil that leads to the self caused suffering. The truth with a capital T is just another religion right next to all the others that claim to bring the capital T.

Does does any of this bring Inner Peace, fulfillment and the presence of being now?