SOUL

@Serotoninluv Self suffering is the first layer of imaginary self identity experience and without liberation from that I see no other benefit to transcending all the other imaginary absolutes, it's like fancy wheels and stereo system on a car that doesn't run imho.

@Serotoninluv All those conceptual absolute states are imaginary, they exist in the imagination. I have transcended all them to where even truth, capital T and all, doesn't exist, I have observed the origins of the manifest existence and transcended even those. They don't necessarily help the people who are self suffering and can be a distraction. To use game terminology they are bonus rounds but if someone is chasing after those they can spend a lifetime looking for deep transcendent states and self suffer their whole life. I'm more interested in pointing to liberation because without that then those deep transcendent states are just another life purpose that they may or may not achieve and can cause self suffering if one is dependent on them to justify their self identity.

@Serotoninluv You are conflating life purpose with liberation.... these are different but obviously not separate in the manifest. If someone is in liberation and plays games all day who are you to say they aren't? I'm sure there was someone who pointed at the Buddha and said he was lazy for not meeting their expectations. In liberation we bring 'nirvana' to our life purpose not derive nirvana from it because then we are dependent on the physical world to supply it..... is that what you are suggesting to do?....hmmm

Self development is a different focus than liberation but not separate. We can endlessly develop the self, continue to find life purpose and always evolve in infinite ways. There will always be a yearning for more and any satisfaction will experience will be tied to that development and can be taken away with it. In liberation we can also self develop but it is from a place where the yearning has been quenched and the self suffering has ceased. In this well being our development is manifested from our existing fulfillment and not done in an attempt to fulfill so it cannot be taken away by the path of development or lack of it. The type of harmony with well being that our life purpose's form takes in this state can feel magical. Even if the circumstances of our life don't appeal to our concept of what we think makes us 'happy' or what we 'want' we can still find joy in it because we are in joy..... we en-joy life just because, it's in liberation from the struggle.

Slapping capital letters and the word absolute onto things doesn't change what it is...liberation is liberation, cessation of self suffering is what it is. It's also called 'nirvana'. Billions of people across the millennia would love to be it for even a moment and I wish as many that can experience it will be. @Raptorsin7 I'm not here for you to believe my typed words, I'm simply pointing to the liberation that is at hand for any who allow it to be. The 'work' is often needed for healing and preparing just to do nothing, like you said. If the ego mind sucks us back into reacting and struggling then the self suffering will accompany that because we are behaving as if what we are isn't enough, that there is something unfulfilled. An ego mind going apeshiat within us is difficult to not react to, to not struggle with so we meditate and do all of the 'work' to calm it, to quiet it.... but the calm, quiet mind isn't liberation in itself. A calm, quiet mind is more conducive to ceasing the struggle with the self for sure. If we are dependent on the mind being this way to be at 'peace' we are just in a temporal expression of 'peace' and the ego mind will use that to instigate the struggle with self. It will attempt to disturb the peace so we go back to work making it still. It's like trying to still a pool of water by physically trying to stop the turbulence, each movement causes more waves. Cease moving, stop the work and the water stills itself but to transcend the dependency on a still pool is ultimately to be the still pool regardless of the tsunami that may be going on around us. Don't believe my typed words..... they are just stories I tell.

@Raptorsin7 yes.

Leo said in a video that everything is bullshit..... that is conditional, there is also unconditional absolute bullshit.

This is why you're still on the path....you believe there's work to do. The ego wants you to work because it needs to justify itself through it. I lived that working path for years until one day I just ceased struggling and the self suffering ceased along with it. Sure the ego mind continued to entice and cajole me into struggling with it, it pushed all the buttons it had at it's disposal to instigate a reaction to it....and there were times I fell back into the struggle only to recognize the self suffering came back with that. Some, well, many, yes even all may need to go through a process of healing before they can be sufficiently aware of the suffering that is being generated through the struggle with the self but the ego mind will continue to stir up reasons to react to it and cause more suffering. As long as we are alive in the body it has urges and desires that the ego mind will use to lure us back into the struggle..... we're not just hungry so need nourishment.... we have to eat a certain food to be 'satisfied'. Our lives have to be arranged just a certain way for us to be 'happy'. Instead in liberation no matter the circumstances or situations I live in well being... it's like you alluded to in one of your videos that you were chided for by some guy.... I could be confined to a box and be in well being.... well, paraphrased. Why am I still here? You are aware of what a bodhisattva is, right? I remain in the manifest to let others know that liberation exists and they can also experience the cessation of self suffering. So this forum can serve as a way to express this to others. Will you ban me for this?

@Raptorsin7 The other day I had a clear description of the feeling that could be easily understood even by someone unawakened. You know that euphoric feeling of getting something you desperately want whether it be something material or a circumstance? Just feeling that way for no reason whatsoever....just because.... and the mind may be searching for the reason but there isn't one. It just is.

@Derek White What do you consider 'enlightenment' to be?

@Raptorsin7 Yea, one of the other facets of 'feeling' could be described as unattached connectedness.... connected to all without being attached to any.

@Raptorsin7 There are many facets including peace, joy, fulfillment but if it could be said in a word......Bliss.

I'm not doing the 'work' because decades ago I have awakened to the realization there is nothing to do, no work, no accomplishment to achieve and no truth to attain. Working to have no ego is like trying to ban your own self from the forum of your own being which attempting to do often is just fodder for more self suffering. Liberation is presence of being in the moment free of self suffering....everything else is story telling so just tell a joyful story if one must tell one.

But wait...... didn't Leo say everything is bullshit? Hm....

at least once in a while remind yourself illusion is often mistakenly interpreted as 'does not exist' instead of 'not as it appears'.

External bullies are the same as internal bullies..... wait, what? Internal bully? Yes, the ego is an inner bully that puts pressures on us to behave in ways to justify it's identity.... just like external bullies pressure us to react in a way to justify them. So with all bullies, inner and otherwise, don't react. This takes what powers the identity away because without you feeding them through your behavior they appear powerless and will go away. Well, the inner bully, the ego, takes much longer to go away but it will eventually weaken in it's ability to pressure us into acting in ways to justify it.

The whole 'eye can't see itself' framing of the 'observe the observer' only makes sense to people who haven't realized that their own self conscious is a manifest example of 'the eye seeing itself' without them having to do anything to achieve it... it's just happens naturally. All of manifest existence is driven by self survival which is proving it's conscious of it's own existence even on the most primordial level. The 'eye can't see itself' perspective is born out of the illusion of separation the physical world appears to us as but isn't reflective of the genuine nature of oneness.

So Leo is saying he had a complete awakening 15mins prior, that he in the video is describing as him currently being omniscient and aware of everything happening in the universe........but didn't know who was knocking at the door and what they were there for. Then he isn't even self aware enough to recognize the display of how unaware this is. Oh haha...self owned...or should I say no-self owned! But I'm not going to watch all this....

You are believing that it's truth a story is shared with no one and is completely incomprehensible and wild.... this is in your imagination.

...and in your story what you believe in your perception is the 'truth'.

Then you go on to create a story shared by many on this forum The type of conditioning on this forum is typically of the 'non-dual' variety Or as 'truth' and 'illusion' which is the conditioning of this forum but derived from eastern religious teaching ...which you dutifully did nonetheless.

There are dynamics with the brain and our minds that will limit the degree of awareness we have of the infinite perspectives that are present simultaneously because of it's focus on just one or few of them. We are the objective and subjective, the finite and infinite simultaneously. Consciousness work can allow us to increase our experience of unattached awareness so we aren't attached to just one or a few of the separate perspectives which ironically brings on a sense of 'connectedness' to all views that exists in the oneness perspective.

I'm not really sure what you are trying to say here but if I'm not mistaken your point I will say yes all perspectives are present in the holistic awareness as 'oneness' perspective.

Please allow me to offer a conceptual understanding that differs from many on this forum..... don't separate the objective and subjective as if they are not one perspective, ultimately they are one. To be in awareness from the so called 'objective' observer one will 'subjectively' view themselves through that 'objective' perspective. We are 'subjectively' viewing the attached subjective experience from an unattached subjective perspective which we call 'objective' observation. So then to observe the 'objective' observation we will 'subjectively' view from a point that is unattached to the 'objective' observation. As we continue to view from a point increasingly unattached to any one specific point we view them from all points and become aware of our presence in all perspectives. So the difference between the conceptual perspective of 'objective' and 'subjective' ceases to be obstacle to genuine unified perspective. This is what some call non-dual awareness.... I would call it holistic awareness.

What Jesus taught is very useful, quite insightful and potentially powerful inner work to cease self suffering but what the Christian religion teaches about Jesus... not so much, in fact, their beliefs quite often increase self suffering.