SOUL

@Nivsch A reference point is just imaginary

According to the belief system of this forum you are god and created all of this, you are alone and it's all in your imagination. You imagined the incident, you imagined the terror, imagined the attacker, imagined the victims running, screaming and the violence, imagining the conflict between cultures. Why would imagine all of that? You are even imagining me asking you why are you imagining all of this? I know it sounds foolish and detached from the reality but it's only imaginary that it may sound that way because it's only you who exist and everything is just your imagination, real reality is imagined. Don't believe it? Just read the forum and all the imagined members will tell you in post after post, thread after thread... that is until the imagined Leo has a new imagined deepest awakening on drugs and then they will start to preach that new imagined belief. I will now sit back and await the imagined backlash for them imagining me saying this.

@CaptainBobbyOlsen Thinking one is has the 'absolute truth' isn't the same as thinking one has reached 'the end'. Sure, some may think if they have found the 'truth' they are 'done' but the belief about having the 'truth' is a continual 'trap' of the ongoing process of awakening, not the end of it.

@CaptainBobbyOlsen The one that is the constant and persistent 'trap' if we are going to use this word to describe the phenomena of attachment which entraps within the experience of awakening is believing our perception is the 'truth'. As we are freed from the attachment of self perception so transcend to more unified perception of oneness quite often there is a revelatory experience of 'this is the true' reality. People will call it absolute truth, they will capitalize it as 'Truth' and they will dismiss everything else as false, an illusion and not real in favor of their mystical experience of awakening. They will shout from the metaphorical rooftops about how they have awakened to the universal truth that applies to everyone, not just their own experience, it's everyone;s truth... it is THE TRUTH! This is a 'trap' as you would call it. Every new and deeper awakening no matter who the awakener is seems to always be the most truest truth to ever be seen whether it's someone newly on the path or years into it like the venerable host of this forum believes they are seeing the absolute truth and their experience is pure in perception. It's DIRECT EXPERIENCE! How can it be wrong or an illusion? So be aware of this 'trap' if this is what we are to call it.

It has nothing to do with making compelling arguments, it's about well being which is about the cessation of self suffering. Once there is well being there is nothing left to argue about.

@DrugsBunny People who are magical minded, whether it be the new age mystic or the religious adherent, takes what is a kernel of fact and exaggerates it to the extreme degree then declares their exaggerated belief is the truth because the kernel is. Don't let their exaggerated belief disturb your peace.

@Carl-Richard The commas don't need to be in there because 'describe to define' is communicating the point well enough but a comma can be in there if desired but not required. Although, ironically, the comma separates just like the ego separates haha.

A statement about an observation.

@Julian gabriel There is an evolutionary habituation in the human psychology to seek out accurate information and understanding for our physical survival but the ego will use this as a means to preserve self identity as well so..... it's quite a challenge to transcend this so that it won't habitually do it in the mind.

I have noticed how people are always trying to describe 'god' to define it the same way the ego describes the self to define itself as if it can draw a line between what it is or isn't.... it's pretty humorous.

In total omniscience it includes all, it does not exclude any so for it to be omniscient it adds the limited existence, all forms and variations of limited existence, it does not give up or 'forfeit' it. Transcending the limited experience may appear to the ego to be 'giving up' it's limited experience because it defines itself and it's justifies itself through the limitations. The ego's identity is the limitations of experience because it cannot be be something if there is no other thing to separate from. Although, if one were to experience omniscient perspective one would know that it includes all experience, unlimited and limited alike, it comprises all experience even the transcendence of experience itself.

@selfvalley If one clears up their own misery by ceasing the inner conflict of their own self there is no angst generated so there is nothing that will be turned onto others. Being at peace robs the dynamic of it's pain so it doesn't express the emotional behavior with personal animosity into the story of the experience. In peace there is an ability to coexist without the malice that intolerance breeds.

It seems the issue stems from that they don't want to accept that there is a changing society. They want to stay attached to what they perceive in their imagination to be the 'roles' of a century ago but society doesn't ever stay the same, society is always changing. If they had an open perspective they would see how they have been freed up from having to adhere to strict roles imposed on them by others under the guise of 'tradition'. Yet the changing society isn't requiring them to change if they don't want to. They can be whatever they want even a hybrid and there are plenty of potential partners who are seeking those supposed traditional roles or hybrids of them, Let's be honest, most people are hybrids. They are just upset that everyone doesn't want to accept the traditional roles because they do. Of course, you will probably respond as if you think I don't understand them which is only you failing to understand that I do more than you can understand. I'm old enough to be raised seeing the shift happening real time and can appreciate that it's actually better for those who aren't attached to an imposed 'traditional' role, it's actually more free now. The regressive mindset that has gripped many conservative causing them to thrash around in a frenzy of culture war histrionics has infected what was just normal disaffected young men struggling to find their way that has always happened. Yet now they have turned it into some ideological zealotry and waging a jihad against an imagined enemy... which is simply change. How can anyone hope to defeat change? it's impossible. Oh... and everything is politics.

Don't be silly, this is the anti-universe, that other one is the real one where humans aren't screwing it up.

Sounds like identity politics to me.... what's their pronouns?

...and it's so important to figure and understand if your beeeyyyyyytaahhhhh! HAHA

Yea... trying to figure out whether they are alpha makes them what stage in spiral dynamics? BWAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAAAAA

@Preety_India Always remember how much I appreciate and care about you...if you are going to remember something.

You got caught in the trap of your imagination. I didn't say the words 'good and bad', why did you bring them up? Because it seems you are contending with your imagination and not having a discussion with me. Consider this when talking with others so you can understand them for what they are saying and won't find yourself talking past them or injecting in things not being said. I thought there was no separation between infinite and finite? At least that is what you communicated to me in another thread. Why the different 'rules' for infinite and finite? If 'god' loves creation does 'god' also fear and hate it? If there is no value in the infinite why would 'god' value creation and have love for it but not the others? You didn't respond to the other questions, any particular reason? "Let me also ask if you believe everybody chose their life, maybe even before they were born, and everything that happens to them? Do you believe the 'law of attraction'? That people can and do bring everything that happens to them into their life?"

Neutral huh? Every event in life is neutral and only 'preferences' is why someone would think it's other than neutral? Let me also ask if you believe everybody chose their life, maybe even before they were born, and everything that happens to them? Do you believe the 'law of attraction'? That people can and do bring everything that happens to them into their life? I'm not talking just about the perception based on belief, preference or opinion about what happens, you think everything is actually 'neutral', has no positive or negative effect however one might characterize it, it's completely neutral?

@Razard86 This line seemed incomplete when I wrote it but I was typing stream of consciousness right through it all and forgot to go back to edit it as I was distracted by other things. Such is the nature of the finite mind...haha. I really do sense it's a insightful distinction that shouldn't be overlooked so will make an extra post pointing it out. I would edit it to 'Finite is limited, infinite is unlimited, this is a description of quantitative and qualitative characteristics.'

To be honest I'm not very well read on these things, I have read pretty much nothing about it and my exposure comes through others sharing it. I'm more of an autodidact that had certain amount of awakening before I even heard others talk about spirituality. So I did a quick search and found 10 quotes from him and I can say it resonates with what of what we hear in the new age thought. It could even be said he laid the some of the foundational concepts for what the new age became. While I really like what those quotes said and can agree with much of it I am cautious about some of the 'law of' ideas because while it is true we create our perspective in the imagination there are some things in life it is difficult to attribute to it. I'm not going to go into detail here as it's not my place to be critical of what works for others in how their inner work is. If those ideas bring well being and cessation of self suffering who am I to say anything to hinder that? So be it.

@Razard86 I didn't create a duality between wave and function, physics did, I was merely pointing to the difference that physics creates and that's the label in scientific understanding it was given. Of course it's not a duality in reality because there is also the observer, which is another element of the process and the environment which is another element as well. So that makes four elements required for the nature of 'wave-particle' physics. Yes, the wave is an unbroken aspect that is undefined and the particle is defined, it has a beginning and an end. This is a description of how the universe manifests itself into actually being a physical existence. Of course, this doesn't account for the observer, which is a finite example of awareness and the environment which is a finite example of the void. Those four elements are finite, they are not infinite in that they aren't unlimited. Finite is limited, infinite in unlimited, this is a description of quantity, there is no line between them but they can be described as what they are. Actually we can observe the infinite with a variation of that experiment. In a delayed observer variation the recording is delayed and it appeared as if the particle was retroactively created to account for the delayed observer. So they were able to show how quantum doesn't respect time in physics. They showed how time is merely a construct of physics and that what we would call 'now' transcends the 'time' of physics. They also can demonstrate how the 'space' of physics can also be transcended with the entanglement experiments. Showing how what we call 'now' and 'void' are outside of physics, they are even outside of what we would call 'infinite' in the physics sense because they are timeless and spaceless. 'Awareness' and 'being' we say are infinite in physics since they are unlimited but in reality they are like 'now' and 'void' as they are outside of what we would call infinite because they transcend infinite even if we call them that. These are elements that are the basis of the quantum which produces classical physics and exist as the root of what we understand as wave. In a physics sense they existed 'before' the big bang and are what could be called absolute elements. I'm not drawing lines between these things as if they separate, this is a description of them and I can continue to describe it all the way until it's unified as one that some would call 'god'. The more manifest in the physical it is the more appearance of separation exists the closer to unity it is the less the appearance of separation exists. Though, yes, this is only an appearance of separation because, yes, it's all one. Language isn't effective in describing the abstract and formless but I'm glad we can try to clarify even if it's not always adequate.

The mystical mind seems to misinterpret what this experiment shows us. The double slit experiment reveals to us that a photon behaves like a wave when unobserved and behaves like a particle when observed. These are two different finite states that the photon behaves with, an infinite state wouldn't behave in finite ways. This has brought on many mistaken understandings about the nature of the universe that plays out in many of the 'quantum consciousness' ideas of the modern mystics. 'Observation' in the context of the environment of physics also has finite behavior. So, we cannot glean much useful infinite understanding from examining the finite. Although, we can use awareness to transcend finite behavior, awareness is consciousness that isn't bound by the observer and observed finite behavior model so isn't bound by the wave-particle duality. Contemplate that and you may find new awakenings will blossom that aren't bound by the finite 'quantum consciousness' understanding Desire works in the finite world, it manifests in the urges and impulses that behaves in productive ways for the body to survive. It has has uses in the wave-particle duality for the physical manifest we live in. Although, in awareness desire's duality is a hindrance because it is finite so behaves with finite effect. We have to do things in the physical world to 'create' the things we want for us so desire has a function. Yet, in consciousness this duality 'creates' self suffering so to not allow desire to 'create' the separation by transcending it brings us liberation. It doesn't do the work to 'create' things, we still chop wood and carry water, it ceases the self suffering in consciousness. Seeking ultimate understanding of all is something the mind attempts to 'create' through desire. Awareness can transcend this desire to understand and then all is revealed because it was never anything we are separated from anyway. Awareness is infinite, understanding is finite so the mind would have us seek to understand because it is finite.

I'm not sure I know what you mean when you use those two terms, conscious creation and quantum physics, so I ask you to explain a little bit more if you would be kind enough to.