ardacigin

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Posts posted by ardacigin

  1. Posted · Edited by ardacigin

    This following video is for people who try to understand the difference between 'experiential insights', theories and beliefs. Prior to understanding this, one needs to understand how we know what we know to be true. Here is a VERY short but high-quality video about what epistemology is all about.

    As described in the video, all human beings have implicit assumptions about what is considered as valid knowledge. What knowledge 'is' is already biased by our implicit assumptions about how we perceive language-based knowledge.

    Do you see language-based truth as relativistic social constructs? That is an epistemological claim. This mindset will make you curious about how non-language perception can be possible. This directly leads to investigation within spiritual methods like psychedelics and meditation.

    Do you see language-based truth and/or knowledge as something that is waiting to be discovered in the world out there? As an absolute? That is an epistemological claim. And this will turn into disdain of any method which doesn't involve scientific measurements. Because of this implicit assumption, many scientific people make fun of spiritual methods denying they can be valid ways of investigating reality.

     Hope this was a good intro to epistemology from a spiritual understanding.

    Let me know your thoughts down below. 

     

  2. Posted · Edited by ardacigin

    18 minutes ago, Esoteric said:

    I don't see the point of this at all. If you start sharing your experiences with other people you will set yourself up for trouble. You will hear about experiences you didn't have etc. You will start to wonder and think, especially newbies. You have a chance to speak with the teacher once everyday, and you have a contact person for practical stuff. This is enough, imo.

    I can see its distracting side while talking to other meditators but at least people should get more private help from the teachers. Also, we should stop thinking about the 'community' as bad in any way.

    You can make dharma friends there. As long as you keep these interactions optional and brief, It will only add to the enjoyment of the practice. No social interaction can be VERY challenging, demotivating and isolating for beginners. We are not talking about one day, but 10 consecutive days. 

    This advice doesn't apply to anyone else besides beginners.  An advanced meditator won't have a problem with this. But I think it would do more good than harm to create a more loving, sharing and talkative communities in retreat environments. 

    I find this a little autistic. You can easily turn this into 'meditation in daily life' practice where the meditator is expected to maintain samadhi while conversing with another meditator. Even advanced meditators can benefit from that.

    As long as how to do this is explained formally by the organization, people will learn a VERY crucial skill to help them develop the integration of mindfulness in daily life.

  3. Posted · Edited by ardacigin

    6 minutes ago, Viking said:

    good post, though 2 points:

    1. from my experience most people who go there never meditated before, so what theyre actually doing there is learning to meditate. its kinda an introduction to meditation which they will do in daily life. i met a few people who really liked anapana and i think they stuck with it in daily life.
    2. vipassana for me i feel is not about the achievement of high consciousness states, but rather an environment to clear my mind of daily distractions and let emotional trauma come to the surface. i cried a ton during my first vipassana retreat. that might not be for everyone though
    3. in the article they say that silent retreats are bad. i think the opposite, if retreats are not silent all u will think about during meditation is about your conversations. it will be harder to meditate

    About the silent retreats, I think it is good to be silent but there must be periods of time when people can converse and share their experiences. Not only that teachers should speak to their students and ask for their problems. A full on silent retreat is an autistic and dogmatic rule practiced on vipassana retreat.

    It is valuable but I think there must be short periods of time for students to interact within themselves and also with teachers in a more meaningful way. Again, this can be optional and brief. No need to force it on people who wants to go full on silent.

  4. Posted · Edited by ardacigin

    9 minutes ago, SunnyNewDay said:

     

    Most people don't start taking their faith or spirit seriously until they quite literally have something that shatters their reality and gives them a new perspective like a life threatening disease or a problem in life that compels them to meditate for ten days.

    You are putting the cart before the horse.

    I mean I suppose some people would benefit from what you're saying but many also benefit from diving in the deep end.

    Yes. I agree with you. But there are more effective ways like psychedelics if the purpose is to get 'interested' in spirituality. Taking a psychologically and physically demanding 10 day retreat is not the best method to get 'interested'.

    The opposite is more likely to happen. People tend to break down and experience challenging traumatic experiences, dark night of the souls more often than experiencing this impermanent 'bliss' sporadically in a 10 day retreat which motivates them to meditate every hour from then on.

    Skill is required to deal with the challenge of retreats and beginners are not well equipped to deal with them.

    Again, we should think of a 10-day retreat as a serious mental marathon. Just as you wouldn't recommend a fat person to do a marathon, nor should you recommend a beginner meditator to do 10+ sits a day. They won't get the essence of spirituality that way.

    Ease down on the intensity. Focus on daily practice, consistency, fundamentals, and strategy. These should be the core values for a beginner.

     

     

  5. Posted · Edited by ardacigin

    31 minutes ago, SunnyNewDay said:

    So what do you reccomend instead to a newbie? You give a whole bunch of advice to avoid something that has helped thousands of people but give no alternative approaches. 

    Good question. For the first 1-2 years of practice, focusing on daily mindfulness integration with stability of attention are one of the most fruitful things a beginner can do. 

    The question must not be: 'How can I run away from my hectic daily life, save up money and go to a monestary to develop fundamental skills?' 

    but rather: 'How can I practice smart, integrate the ethos of practice to daily life and develop the foundations RIGHT NOW, ALL THE TIME before I take on the challenge of a retreat?'

    Admittedly this requires more effort and strategic thinking. But that is why this mindset would be WAY more effective for a newbie than the mainstream value system. 

    In the former mindset, the beginner meditator will be like:

    'Well, this meditation is really hard and I can't really focus. Maybe this retreat I'll take a few months from now will help me get skilled and after that my daily practice and life integration will be silky smooth.'

    Well, it doesn't really work that way, does it? The peak samadhi states one experiences in retreat don't drip down into daily life 'silky smooth'. It takes diligent, intense and strategic practice to get there.

    That is why asking questions like:

    'How can I turn my current life into a monastery feedback loop RIGHT NOW?'

    'What is the reason why I can't easily meditate for long periods of time?'
    'How many minutes do I spend in a 20 mins sit in monkey mind vs concentration?'

    'Do I feel sleepy in meditation? How can I increase alertness once the dullness sets in?'

    'What meditation technique suits me best? Am I a samadhi or insight-oriented individual? What are my weaknesses?'

    are better questions to ask for the first 1-2 years of practice. 

    That is what I'd call deliberate practice.

    I've now updated the original post with these conclusions. Thanks for asking.

  6. Posted · Edited by ardacigin

    I've recently read a fantastic article on the reasons for not doing a vipassana retreat if you are not a skilled meditator. This article really condensed my opinions on the matter.

    https://medium.com/@maxmarmer/what-is-the-point-of-meditation-and-why-you-should-not-do-a-vipassana-retreat-920edb8aaf22

    In my vocabulary, a skilled meditation practitioner is someone who can access Stage 7 levels of concentration and awareness in Culadasa's model with relative ease.  You don't have to be perfect at it but you need to consistently access such levels of mindfulness when you apply yourself. 

    Also, physical and mental pliancy of the nervous system has to be developed to a high level so that you can go through grueling 60 mins long sessions back to back with little to no break. These are things a 1-2 year long meditator can't do. Even 3-5 year long meditators may really struggle with this schedule. But 3-5 year long meditators can generally take on the challenge of a retreat if they have practiced skillfully and diligently.

    These skills require time to develop as the article eludes to.

    I want you to think of these hardcore retreats as serious marathon challenges. This includes solo retreats Leo does with 10+ hours of daily sittings. In fact, what Leo does is harder than a mainstream vipassana retreat.

     If a runner doesn't assess their skills to be sufficient to survive a long marathon, they take more time to develop their skills. They don't go balls to the wall and say: 'Let's see what happens'. You should be careful before taking on such challenges. Leo can do it, but that doesn't necessarily mean you can. (yet)

    Doing 10+ hours of sits back to back in a day is going to result in frustration and waste of precious time/energy as a beginner practitioner. You might say: Can I learn from such an experience even if I'm a beginner?

    Yes. Of course, you can. But imagine how much growth you'd have if you could actually follow the meditation instructions as they were designed by master meditators.

    A beginner tends to experience monkey mind for about 70-80% of the time in a 60 mins sit. These people also experience distracted moving attention, non-clear sensory sensitivity, little to no equanimity and weak awareness. Imagine doing 10 more of these in a day. Your meditation quality, patience, concentration and awareness will all take a SIGNIFICANT hit after 2-3 sessions back to back. Considering you didn't have much of these in the first place (as a baseline) really makes the problem worse.

    A skilled practitioner tends to experience deepening of concentration, sensory clarity, awareness and equanimity %80 of the time in a 60 mins sit. The exact opposite of a beginner meditator. After back to back sessions, even skilled meditators will get fatigued. But at this level, the nervous system is prepared to work with these sensations skillfully. You are expected to reliably do this in a vipassana retreat. 

    At the end of the day, this person has a way higher chance of penetrating reality compared to the unskilled meditator.

    So these are my condensed thoughts on why it is a bad idea to go to a vipassana retreat as a beginner. Read that article as well and let me know your thoughts down below.

    Just to clarify, I take into account the time and energy one wastes as an opportunity cost while saying this. If you really have time to take 4-5 retreats like this in a year, then by all means, go for it. 

    But the majority of the people tend to go to these retreats by making sacrifices. Expecting growth from it. Leaving their careers, friends and families. Maybe only taking a hardcore retreat once a year or two due to financial reasons. And as you continue to have bad experiences with these retreats, the less likely it gets to attend one the next year. I don't want beginners to develop an aversion to 10-day retreats.

    Here is a better alternative than retreats:

    For the first 1-2 years of practice, focusing on daily mindfulness integration with the stability of attention are one of the most fruitful things a beginner can do. 

    The question must not be: 'How can I run away from my hectic daily life, save up money and go to a monastery to develop fundamental skills?' 

    but rather: 'How can I practice smart, integrate the ethos of practice to daily life and develop the foundations RIGHT NOW, ALL THE TIME before I take on the challenge of a retreat?'

    Admittedly this requires more effort and strategic thinking. But that is why this mindset would be WAY more effective for a newbie than the mainstream value system. 

    In the former mindset, the beginner meditator will be like:

    'Well, this meditation is really hard and I can't really focus. Maybe this retreat I'll take a few months from now will help me get skilled and after that my daily practice and life integration will be silky smooth.'

    Well, it doesn't really work that way, does it? The peak samadhi states one experiences in retreat don't drip down into daily life 'silky smooth'. It takes diligent, intense and strategic practice to get there.

    That is why asking questions like:

    'How can I turn my current life into a monastery feedback loop RIGHT NOW?'

    'What is the reason why I can't easily meditate for long periods of time?'
    'How many minutes do I spend in a 20 mins sit in monkey mind vs concentration?'

    'Do I feel sleepy in meditation? How can I increase alertness once the dullness sets in?'

    'What meditation technique suits me best? Am I a samadhi or insight-oriented individual? What are my weaknesses?'

    are better questions to ask for the first 1-2 years of practice. 

    That is what I'd call deliberate practice.

    This is the primary reason I wanted to write this post. Hope it helps a little :)

     

     

     

     

     

  7. Posted

    9 hours ago, Pure Imagination said:

    Thank you for this! I’m personally very triggered by movies/shows where a character suffers immense physical pain. So much so that I pass out sometimes. I’ll give this a shot and maybe I’ll be able to work through those fears ❤️

    Yes. Give it a go and let me know your experiences. It is not easy but this is a very important training method for life integration.

  8. Posted · Edited by ardacigin

    Media induced trigger practice is a way to develop your meditation skills in challenging sensory experiences. 

    Our inner subjective experience can be described as various interactions of these three modalities:

    1- Mental Thought

    2- Mental Image

    3- Emotional Body Sensations

    All hell and bliss in a human being's life will occur in these 3 sensory modalities. Regardless of the intensity of the experience, if you get a handle on dealing with these modalities, you'll have the master key to life.

    Now for formal sessions, strong determination sits are great. And for most people, these sits involve rest in these 3 modalities for a significant portion of the session. Generally, as time goes on, challenging material tends to arise. 

    But the problem is, we are already rather expecting them. In formal meditation, we are also ready to work with them. We are also neurologically in a state of equanimity prior to the extreme sensations.

    This helps us develop skills but not necessarily help us apply them in daily life.

    We don't always have time to focus on our breaths for 20 mins and then have that challenging talk with our partner. Sometimes we need to work with the arising sensory experience with very little concentration, awareness and equanimity. 

    You develop these skills in trigger practice. This practice tends to evoke intermediate-advanced levels of extremities in sensory experience. Mostly painful emotional sensations.

    Here is how to do the technique:

    1- Pick an emotionally difficult media content of your choice. You can pick ANY kind of media that tends to induce fear, terror, anger, sadness, frustration, boredom, loneliness or anxiety. 

    I'm personally HIGHLY triggered in sadness inducing TV Shows. Show me any drama, where I connect with the characters, start crying, having traffic accidents, going through break ups and experiencing misfortune. I immediately start to feel challenging emotional sensations. It tends to affect my emotional circuits. 

    So for this practice, pick a media you are triggered by. Most people tend to choose the news as well.

    2- Wait until the challenging content arises in these 3 modalities in subjective experience.

    This probably won't be a long wait. If it is, then you haven't chosen media that triggers challenging sensations in you. In that case, pick a different media content.

    3- Develop sensory clarity and equanimity with your existing levels of concentration/awareness.

    This is not a practice to develop concentration and awareness per se. You want to master a different skill set. You want to do 2 main things here:

    - Sensory clarity: Clarify what is going on these 3 inner sensory modalities as you watch the media content. Don't miss anything and be as precise as you can.

    - Equanimity: Regardless of the type or kind of experiences, apply equanimity as much as possible. Equanimity is non-reactivity to pleasure and pain.

    4- After it is over, do few minutes of formal session before wrapping up.

    This is important. Now you want to force the vulnerable nervous system which is already challenged to do one final push. Do a high quality formal meditation sit for about 5 mins. Do this closed eyes.

    Make sure to emphasize concentration and awareness with body relaxation. Really apply yourself and see how you can deal with the drip down effect of trigger practice. 

    You are done!

    Great work.

    ------

    After doing this practice, you can gauge your meditation level expertise. I'd say that even advanced practitioners will feel VERY challenging sensations with this technique. Not the usual bliss, jhana and absorption states Samatha meditators tend to talk about in formal sessions.

    But if you are truly a master, then you'll definitely work with these sensations much more effectively. You'll actually experience these 'challenging' circumstances in a state of bliss.

    That is when you know if you are a committed practitioner or a dabbler. 

    So if you want to work smart and have faster progress, this should be your go-to technique for daily life practice. 

    Let me know your comments down below.

     

  9. Posted

    5 hours ago, Jordan94 said:

    Thanks that was really helpful and really what I needed actually

    I think I was definitly going on the trap of over focusing on the attention and not puting enough emphasis on awareness

     

    Now on the past few sessions I've put way more emphasis on awareness

    By having some short moment of extrospective attention to the sounds and physical sensations, and by having some short moments of introspective attention checkin in and labelling

    It feels like I have less amount of time of continuous attention on my breath though, because my attention is going around introspective and extrospective awareness (and distractions obviously) as well, but I guess it's normal ? and it feels like I have more control of my attention, and less risks of falling into mind wandering/forgetting

    Jordan, I really understand your current predicament. It is tricky where to really focus on to get the benefits. 

    Here is what worked for me at the start.

    Even though awareness is REALLY important, if you have bad concentration on the breath, just do some practices to focus on the breath as consistently as you can. You gotta develop that stable attention ASAP.

    Seriously make an effort to not lose the breath. Keep it clear and bright.

    Don't worry about awareness just yet because in the beginning, our conscious power of awareness is not enough to maintain both exclusive attention to the breath and extrospective awareness of the external world. 

    The only cue must be dullness at the beginning. When you feel sleepy, ease your attention on the breath and focus on sounds, bodily sensations, straighten the spine and open the eyes. Re-energize the mind. And as soon as the breath gets clearer, gently but firmly return to the breath.

    Eventually, you'll get there by fusing attention and awareness. At that moment, the practice will become awareness and sensory clarity oriented and you'll stop emphasizing the breath concentration so much. But until then, you gotta make an effort with pig headed determination.

    Hope it works out for you, friend :) Just keep it up and you'll get there.

     

  11. Posted · Edited by ardacigin

    7 hours ago, PenguinPablo said:

    99% of that pain is your mind's aversion. All this stretching, and aversive subconscioud thought patterns literally create the knots in your body while you sit, which shift from small discomforts to excruciating pain. Eventually once the mind understands this, it stops this aversive attitude and tensions stop being msde in the body.

    Right, and there is a stage of insight called 'equanimity' where this gets VERY pronounced. Not the average equanimity you have in meditation but as an experiential and profound equanimity towards both pleasure and pain. 

    Most meditators mistake the subtle dullness in Culadasa's stages to the development of equanimity. Equanimity as a watershed experiential moment is WAAY deeper than that. People go through days and weeks of dark night type of experiences before reaching tranquility and equanimity. It is stage 9-10 in Culadasa's model.

    It is tend to be the insight stage right before stream entry.

    I'm only recently tapping into equanimity after having 2 of these insights. I've used to down-play equanimity now I see how important it is.

    The equanimity Shinzen experienced in that retreat is qualitatively different than what a 2-3 year long meditator experiences in 60- 90 mins SDS. (Like I am :) )

    Just because we use the same word 'equanimity' to describe 'reductions in suffering' doesn't mean that equanimity as an insight don't have radically different degrees and depths. Kind of like how enlightenment is multi-layered.

     He probably had mindblowing levels of purification out of that experience. 

     

  12. Posted

    2 hours ago, Jordan94 said:

    Yea I was quite unprecise with what I meant

    What i mean is not replace or change the main practice, but do a warmup of like 2-20 minutes of pranayama (or controling/slowing the breath or whatever) to slow the mind and get a little boost to the concentration, and then start the normal practice following culadasa's book

    Especially for earlier stages for people like me who struggle with maintaining attention to the breath

    Here is Culadasa's quote on concentration only practices: https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMindIlluminated/comments/9iosse/culadasa_i_strongly_discourage_concentrationonly/

    Definitely give it a go if you are interested. But the moment you get dullness in the mind (due to concentration), expand the awareness and re-energize the mind.

  13. Posted · Edited by ardacigin

    11 minutes ago, Jordan94 said:

    That's really interesting too

    I've already been thinking about doing some breath work prior to meditation to ease and improve concentration but never went deep to it

    What's your thoughts on that @ardacigin and others ?

    First of all, breath work is the meditation.

    And pranayama sort of yogic practices (as explained by Arnold666) is definitely powerful. But these instructions would not allow the meditator to develop metacognitive, introspective and extrospective awareness. And those are how you experience deep and transformative insights.

    Exclusive attention to the breath is a dead end as Culadasa talks about. The insight potential is limited and your awareness training takes a hit. Concentration-only practices can be dangerous. In fact, Culadasa warns people against these sort of practices.

    Also, concentration only practices get mechanical after a while. In the beginning, strict instructions like these help develop skills, but once it restricts the meditator too much, it gets in the way of deeper jhanas and practices. 

    Overall, it is good advice for people who wants to develop exclusive attention to the breath. But it is too mechanical and devoid of awareness practices to become a comprehensive guide for awakening.

     

  14. Posted

    7 hours ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

    @ardaciginThanks again for the insights ! I read the post a couple of times and it convinced me definitely to buy the book of Culadasa I never watched or read anything from him. I have heard of the book though.

    Also, about thinking to replicate how a state of absorption was reached is very interesting ! I'd love to respond more, yet I am unsure if it would be helpful, also to others in this thread.

    I know that it is possible from one "case" that in 5 years a no-self  steady state is possible becoming a stream-enterer, shinzen told me via the life pratice programm, that there are lots of them, so I was a bit disappointed but happy, that there is a way to achieve no-self. A couple of days later a guy who joins the life pratice program regulary talked with shinzen about some stuff, he achieved no-self IIRC with a 90 min practice in 5 years. That seems like it is stable. There was no talk around a peak experience anymore he daily life sounded quite intense I could imagine a bodhisattvalives like this. ( I think I saw some bodhisattva's when I lived in China)

    I am now 4 years in with a 1h meditation pratice for the majority of the time (3 1/2 years). I had some off days after 3 years, yet I praticed everyday for 3 years. But between the 3 and 4 year I missed a whole month+ because I was just mad at the practice and life in general. So, that was not so good. Anyway, hope this gives some clarity for your path in some way. (In total I have about 25-30 days of retreat practice, this year alone 6 days). Mostly the home pratice programm from shinzen, as well as  zen retreats in a soto zen tradition. Which was shinzen approved that it is not a cult. So.... I still want to be wary of all of this. It's not that easy imo, a bit more easy when it there are sexual scandals or suciceds etc. 

    After reading the post of yours it reminded me that I had a couple more of these high-states of relaxation I went into the white light and my boundary of my perceived internal self disappered and everything felt vast, as if I observe with a pasive stance in shinzens paradigm. So, I'll just take in with open eyes for e.g what ever happens, but I don't focus for e.g with see out on a single point, but more on the vastness of the area. So, the dynamics of input streams worked differently and the object and stance of focus is different.

    So, I went into these and I was also not sure if I feel asleep or if I am in a high-state of relaxation, I saw the white light at least 4-5 times or more, before I drifted off into sleepiness because I was very tired, yet it felt so amazingly fking good. Like I just marched 50km and had a enlightenment experience, the example is a bit over the top, but I hope it explains the experience a bit more. I was forced into rest because of exhaustion for some reason. Not sure if this was in a retreat. 

    If I may be so free and voice my opinion, if you have a lot of free time currently ( which I wasted in the past) and this is your favorite thing to do, I would shoot for a 7-10 day home retreat a couple of times, if you can do that. I did one over a weekend but it was more reactionary because of a kriya experience and I wanted to validate things and went a bit cray.... Yet, with such an intense pratice you can build a nice structure and potentially reach no-self very fast. In 4 - 3 years. I don't doubt it, yet I don't know anyone else who has done it faster than 5 years besides that one case. So, wish you the best and much success !

    Wow. These are great insights. From what you've written, it definitely seems like you've experienced serious insights similar to mine. Great work!

    Now continue deepening them with samadhi development. And I think Culadasa will be a great mentor for you.

    And you are right. I'll definitely be planning some serious retreat time in the near future. Also I know how Shinzen accessed full-on permanent stream entry in his 4th year of practice.

    Considering that most of us (including myself) are householders, we might limit ourselves and say: ' Well, if it took Shinzen 4 years, then who am I to make it in less than that time frame? I'm nowhere near meditating as much as or as intensely as monastics.'

    This path is unpredictable and we should be open to anything. There are examples from non-meditators like Eckhart Tolle all of a sudden going from depression to enlightenment. And on the other hand, meditators who have their stream entry in their 30th year of meditation. 

    Any period of time is a potential for deep transformation. I'm very much open for anything and I think every meditator should shift their mindset to 'Enlightenment is doable and It can happen at any moment as long as I do the practices. I just need to systematically train my nervous system and be open to whatever occurs.'

    I think after the development of stable and sustained concentration, every meditator must SERIOUSLY set their intentions on awakening :) 

  15. Posted · Edited by ardacigin

    5 hours ago, Sev said:

    Thank you for the post. I see many people has given credit to Culadasa's system. 

    I practised SDS a year ago and didnt make any progress basically. My experience was that it felt like it strained my nervous system so much that after sitting I felt always exhausted. It felt more like it strained me more than purify. Shinzen says in his sds video that if you sit long enough with the intense pain, it finally starts flowing and suffering suddenly vanishes. He tell that he had this kind of experience in his first zen retreat. Have you ever experienced that kind of thing? 

    I too agree that do nothing sort of practices are more effective after having good concentration skills. SDS is similar. If you don't have a good technique to supplement SDS with, then it won't be that effective. The main reason I've been so successful is thanks to Culadasa's system.

    I also see the same problem in noting and labeling practices. Post stage 7, noting is FANTASTIC. The breath is already effortlessly attended and now one can develop extraordinary levels of sensory clarity while noting with introspective awareness. 

    But for a beginner, maybe Mahasi Sayadaw style of full body awareness noting may not be the best way to develop sensory clarity.

    As to Shinzen's experience, I definitely experienced intense pain all of a sudden no longer being a problem. I did experience it more than a few times. However, it wasn't a watershed insight moment for me. But it is definitely possible since I suspect that my nervous system changes its mode of understanding towards physical pain in those periods of time.

    It tends to happen after 75 mins of SDS for me. (If I'm experiencing a lot of pain).

  16. Posted · Edited by ardacigin

    Okay, so my perspective on Stage 7 beyond practice has deepened. Now I understand why Culadasa said that and why stages 8-9-10 are full of practices to facilitate insight. This is the point of developing all these skills. 

    The insight experiences which only happened once pre-stage 7 (for me), are becoming more frequent AND deeper post-stage 7. 

    In fact, that is a good way to know whether you've above stage 6: If you are having profound insight penetrations, then you are going in the right direction. And you are probably somewhere above stage 7. 

    I don't drink alcohol normally. But I did drink a little bit around 10 months ago and experienced a cool state of deep samadhi with it. The only commonality I observed between drinking and samatha practice is this sense of outer boundaries disappearing with both states. Otherwise, I don't recommend alcohol usage for insight practice.

    Time slowing down occurs definitely post-stage7. You'll probably have these effects much more frequently post-stage 7. I haven't experienced extreme states of 4x slower perception of time. But it is definitely possible since time is relative, mentally constructed and illusory :) 

    I don't have any consciousness in deep sleep. I don't quite understand how that works yet.

    But I do have some level of awareness in what is called the 'hypnagogic state'.

    In fact, some might argue that I've taken advantage of these states to experience these insights. Maybe that 'profound relaxation' prior to insight occurred just in that transitional stage from wakefulness to sleep. 

  17. Posted · Edited by ardacigin

    3 hours ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

    @ardacigin

    Thanks for sharing this. I have some issues around what constitutes as a no-self experience I read the four stages of enlightenment on wikipedia. I also know which pratices or pattern in shinzen youngs system works for reaching a no-self stage.

    Otherwise, I had a similar experience, yet I was so exhausted and I praticed some compassionate meditation techniques such as tong-leng or shinzen youngs feel good and at the beginning some body sweeping exercises, that I decided okay it's time to accept that I can't deal with this pain anymore. I can keep pushing, yet alone it's difficult sometimes and I would rather rely on flexibility instead of pure willpower. 

    Therefore, I laid down and I had a 0.5 - 1 second experience of seeing and entering the countours of white light and I went into it but, did not make it very far... So I snapped out of it. It was definitely caused by relaxation this is one technique from shinzen that I use the least. I don't think many people... realize that rest is a steady state. 


    Also, I had some weird experiences with "no-self" which makes it difficult for me to distinguish of what no-self is. For e.g did I fall asleep or did I go deep, I asked shinzen he told me I went deep, I asked the zen master I did the retreat with he was making sure if I did not fall asleep I assured him I did not. He said nothing. Soto zen....


    So, I am quite sure I went deep, yet ordinary consciouness wanted me back and my self was scared in that moment. Not, sure if anyone reads these comments but fine. I can't really tell how advanced or not advanced I am, since I apparently have to work with energies too, which makes it a bit culty. But, well. Better than exorcism. It seems similar, yet fine. 


     

    Okay so the profound relaxation I've experienced was almost DEFINITELY the catalyst for this experience I had 4 days ago lying down. I've validated it for myself yesterday.

     I thought to myself yesterday: 'Let me do the same insight practice again'.

    As Culadasa says whenever one finds an entry point to insight, repeat the process prior to insight exactly as as it occured and try to replicate the same openness, awareness and equanimity. 

    So yesterday, I sat down. Meditated for about 30 mins again. Felt some discomfort. Not as much as 4 days ago but I was quite tired overall due to taxing SDS sits I do in the mornings. 

    So I laid down again. Listening to some meditation related interview. Closed my eyes. Slowly I'm feeling sleepy just like 4 days ago. When I was just about to sleep, I've felt the exact quality of 'profound relaxation' and then it happened.

    The same thing happened with slightly less intensity but more permanency. In fact, I've experienced a few hours of 'significant reduction in self'. (not a full-blown no-self)  

    The no-self insight wasn't dramatic like 4 days ago but it still happened. It had the same EXACT quality to it. My external boundaries disappeared. This time I didn't fall asleep and spent the rest of the day in an elevated state of samadhi where my boundaries was VERY shaky and in touch with outside. I felt weird sensations at the top of my head (where I don't normally feel anything in meditation).

    It is similar to how Leo says psychedelics are purifying his neurological circuits. He said how 5 meo Dmt creates moving and morphing sensations in his brain. I've experienced moving sensation at the top of my head for a few hours in daily life. (where crown chakra is said to be).

    I felt like this was a VERY strong and deep purification. In fact, I was going to write another article today explaining this partial insight penetration but I wanted to wait until some more dramatical insight occurs. It took hours for it to die down slightly. And today, I still feel its 'no-boundary' open awareness effects. But the concentration quality of this experience is mostly over. 

    And I'm pretty sure this is not stream entry. I'll know when this realization gets permanent and radical. But so far so good, hopefully, I'll have another cool insight in a few days. :) 

    I'm shocked to experience such dramatic openings happening almost on a daily basis. Stage 7 and beyond practice is insane. It is like I'm seriously tripping. Not some access concentration. 

    Culadasa said that when you are in Stage 7-8-9, it is VERY unlikely to go through these stages without any profound insight experiences. He basically says that a meditator will at least have one partial but dramatic insight penetration on these stages.

    I didn't think that I was going to have these insights. I didn't think that my concentration and awareness was enough. I was also a little worried.

    I thought: 'Well, maybe I'll experience them once. Or maybe not. But it doesn't feel like I will. Some people just get stream entry right away. Maybe I'll be one of them. Or maybe I'll never get enlightened.'

    And to my surprise, I've experienced 2 insights in the last 5 days. (With relatively replicable processes).

    My mind is blown. Everything is going too smoothly. I'm pretty sure I'll hit a frustrating dead end really soon. Or maybe stream entry is coming.

    My practice is getting really interesting at this point. I've mostly stopped spending time doing hobbies and whatnot. Just full on meditation as much as I can. :) 

  18. Posted · Edited by ardacigin

    2 hours ago, Space said:

    @ardacigin I read TMI sometime last year and spent a good 3 or 4 months working with the breath technique in the book. I literally saw no improvements whatsoever in my level of concentration. For some reason i've always struggled with breath meditation. Even if I was counting the breath I couldn't stay concentrated on it. I always fall asleep with breath meditation as well. Maybe because I use the breath to help me go to sleep at night. I can see the TMI technique being extremely effective for some people, though. It's a really excellent book for beginners who want to start serious meditation.

    Conversely, if it sit down and do something like Do Nothing or even if I do the type of 'dry' self-inquiry that Leo has talked about in the past, my mind gets very very quiet, especially with self-inquiry! 

    Thanks for sharing your progress and insights :)

    Yes. I have a few friends like you who can't get into TMI. Interesting how you've experienced no development of concentration. Also, sleepiness is normal since you've probably conditioned for it before going to sleep every night. 

    It is great if 'do nothing' approach works for you :) These 'call of the search' type of practices are definitely powerful and I use it a lot more nowadays post Stage 7 practice. Thanks for sharing your practice.

  19. Posted · Edited by ardacigin

    30 minutes ago, noselfnofun said:

    @ardacigin  Thanks great insights I'm currently aiming for about 2x 2 hour SDS a day and I am reading Culadasa's book. Have you ever tried a retreat? After my 4th retreat my sensitivity to pain decreased dramatically and I could do SDS alot easier after.

    Also I had an insight once where I completely vanished from experience, just pure nothingness, completely beyond anything is this shamadhi? Sounds similar to what you are describing?

    I can describe my sense of self as 'vanished' from experience for about 5 seconds but I don't have a clear insight into 'nothingness' yet. I don't think that my latest insight was that multi-layered. It was a profund insight experience into no-self. But that was it. Nothingness is a slightly different insight. Another important facet of awakening. I haven't penetrated to it yet. 

    Nothingness or emptiness is basically the insight into how everything in our conscious perceptive reality is a mental construct (which includes the sense of being a self). This is basically what Leo means by 'everything is imagination'.

    I'm sure Leo also points to other nuanced insights with this but this is what I understand.

    Now I know the spiritual theory. I also had some solid insights into no-self. I can get a 'sense' of how this might be true intuitively. But this insight into mental construction of reality is very deep. It is deeper than a single no-self insight. It also includes a deep insight into impermanence as well. 

    I've recently started the path of insight so I can't comment a lot on some of the deeper insights due to lack of direct experience :) 

    Hopefully this was useful.

  20. Posted · Edited by ardacigin

    18 minutes ago, Esoteric said:

    @ardacigin Very cool. Thanks for sharing and for the effort you put into this. I incorporate some of Shinzen's techniques in my everyday life, like "hear in, feel in, see in". I had such a flow with that technique for many days straight that my ego backlashed for months. He is great. Never heard of Culadasa actually. Will definitely check him out. Sounds like he is a consciousness nerd just like Shinzen :)

    Culadasa is a spiritual beast. You must read his book as soon as possible :) Here is a video from him: 

     

  21. Posted · Edited by ardacigin

    32 minutes ago, Tetcher said:

    @ardacigin crazy stuff. When you say that you experience samhadhi is this a tangible experience, are you really able to come back to an existential experience reliably ? How do you describe it, is it a matter of understanding/realization, a configuration of mind, existential coordinates of your witnessing point ? Because you see my problem is that I tried practices but no realization ever crystalized in a way it became self sustaining. So now I'm taking refuge in the knowledge that I will never access deeper levels of realization, I just want to abide in my compulsions so I can live peacefully, striving being such a hassle. But if you are reliably able to get to a deeper experience of existence it means that some realization or understanding crystalized and is self sustaining. How did it happen ?

    Deep Samadhi is a high degree of concentration, sensory clarity, introspective/extrospective awareness and equanimity. You know intuitively that your experience of reality changes. The thoughts significantly subside. The mind is energized. The distinction between the skin where the outside world begins gets blurrier. Pain sensitivity goes down. And you are in a state of flow.

    This samadhi is NOT permanent. But it is a tangible experience. It is caused by my daily practice and conditioned to deepen as long as I continue the practice. Culadasa himself said that even an adept Stage 10 meditator can go all the way down to Stage 1-2 practice if they completely stop training the mind for a long period of time. 

    I've personally tried a 7 day no meditation challenge and experienced fixated monkey mind, but my skills are still intact. You don't lose all of your hard earned equanimity and concentration. You just lose some muscle memory. So keep that in mind. Here is my 7 day no meditation report: 

     

    As to permanent realization pertaining to insight experiences, you do insight practices like self-inquiry, a meditation on the mind and various other techniques to penetrate reality.

    I've only experienced a few temporary insight experiences of no-self. The latest one happened 3-4 days ago. It was just like losing the boundary between skin and the outside world. Literally, this is how I've experienced reality for about 5 seconds before I fell asleep. 

    Prior to this, I've meditated for about 30 mins, experienced A LOT of extreme sensations in the body like boredom, sweating, aversion to practice, dullness etc. Everything just came on with full force. Then I said: 'I can't do this anymore. Let me lie down for a while.I think I'm gonna sleep'

    Then I got really sleepy, I was very tired and my body got unusually relaxed. I was just about to fall asleep and this no boundary insight experience occurred for 5 seconds.

    Maybe if I didn't fall asleep afterward, I would've experienced it as a more permanent realization. I also can't remember exactly how I fell asleep after those 5 seconds. I was definitely sleepy but that transition phase is still blurry for me. I've no idea what happened there.

     

  23. Posted · Edited by ardacigin

    1 hour ago, Enlightenment said:

    @Leo Gura Natural talent is one thing, but learning on the intuitive level how to train your mind is crucial. Some people just seem to have very good intuition on how to practice properly. I was stuck in stage 5 subtle dullness for about 10 months not making any progress, not knowing why. Then something clicked in me and I finally understood what I was doing wrong this whole time. Since then I've been making steady progress. Without experimenting I would never move past stage 5, no matter how much I would meditate.

    My biggest advice for people that are stuck somewhere in stages 1-5 and don't make progress is - don't be afraid to experiment with different ways of engaging your attention, level of alertness (in fact up to stage 4/5 it's preferable to meditate in a state of subtle dullness because it's easier to calm the monkey mind), awareness, amount of effort (maybe you're under or over efforting) etc.

    How much time an individual will need to progress through 10 stages will depend on his natural talent, knowing how to meditate, diligence, how long per day he sits, how many purifications he need to undergo, amount of stress and external triggers that disunify the mind. There was one guy on The Mind Illuminated sub claiming he has reached stage 10 in 6 weeks. Of course, that would be extreme but I think stage 10 is doable within a 3-month retreat or 3 -5 years of daily practice.

    Yeah, I agree that the 10 stages can be accessed in a 3-month retreat if the meditator REALLY knows what they are doing. Also, 3-5 years of daily practice is definitely a good time frame for people who commit. 

    But I don't know if I buy that 'I've accessed stage 10 in 6 weeks' business. Unless he had a semi-permanent insight realization like 'Arising and Passing Away', a beginner meditator can't go that deep, that fast.  He is either already skilled in meditation or he is mistaking the concentration in subtle dullness as stage 10 practice. 

     Maybe the single most effective way to validate these sort of claims is to ask:

    'Can you meditate for 3-4 hours in SDS consistently with minimal suffering?'

    For a matured Stage 10 practitioner, that must be more than doable. 

  24. Posted

    1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

    Obviously Culadasa is supernaturally gifted. That's the trick these masters never tell their students about. They act as though it's pure practice and skill. No, they largely coast off their supernatural concentration abilities.

    I understand your point Leo. But the notion of talent is much more pronounced in insight training rather than samadhi development.

    In fact, I'd argue that these 10 stages of samatha described in this book are mostly practice and skill based. It doesn't require extraordinary talent and/or fluke luck like dry self enquiry and 'just sit' sort of approaches. 

     My mind is very conceptual. Similar to yours. That is why I'm drawn to slightly more systematic spiritual approaches.

    I'm also not a naturally gifted meditator when it comes to concentration. I'm maybe slightly more talented in concentration than the average meditator.  I definitely do know some meditators who really struggle with Culadasa's breath instructions. I'm not like that. 

    But that is not a talent problem in my opinion. I observe that all these people have spiritual arrogance and limiting beliefs coming from different traditions. They have this lack of willingness to learn new sets of exercise regimens.

     The biggest reason I've experienced the effortlessness is making A LOT of effort.  One's initial talent level doesn't make a significant enough difference in one's ability to access these states in samatha practice.

    But I think spiritual talent matters more when it comes to consistently having insight experiences and permanent awakening experiences. Some people are MUCH more likely to have these experiences naturally (and even without any meditation background).

    And I don't know why that happens :) 

     

     

  25. Posted · Edited by ardacigin

    2 hours ago, Jordan94 said:

    Thanks again for the great posts man, same as before really inspiring and interesting

     

    Which advices would you give to improve and move up the early stages of Culadasa's model ? I'm still kind of stuck between stages 2 and 4 depending on the sessions and periods, I wonder also how long it took you to move up the stages initially ?

    I'm gonna put more enphasis on your meditate in slightly cold environement's advice, that seems pretty good, I kinda already knew it but still didn't use it that much, so now i'm just gonna put the aircon so it's cold when I sit

    But yea if you have any other advices to move up the stages from stage 2/3 ?

    I've been meditating for about 3 years now. Daily. And I've spent 2 years really only working with Culadasa's techniques. Also adding Shinzen Young's noting in there as well.  If you are stage 2 and 4, the attention is getting stabilized. You are still experiencing a lot of monkey mind and dullness I presume.

    Cold environment is king for dullness. And persistence to find the breath is king for stability development. Earlier stages occured with a lot of dullness for me. I think this is normal considering that our 'ordinary' state of consciousness is actually a form of subtle dullness (the breath is never clearly perceived in non-meditators). Culadasa talks about this and you really experience the validity of this stage 5 and beyond.

    It took me about 2 years of intense training to get to stage 7.

    It took me about 14 months to get to stage 6. I was also moving back and forth between stages. The samadhi was not stable at all. And I've spent close to a year figuring out how to solidify in Stage 7: effortlessness. Samadhi is now stable and effortless. So 2 years in total. 

    I've heard Culadasa doing the 10 stages in 1 year. I might be wrong on that. And some people say these stages can be experienced in a year.

    Yeah. Maybe you can hit all 10 stages. But embodying the stages and turning them into your baseline can't happen in 1 year in my experience.  I don't see how a householder can experience that much growth in 12 months. Maybe spiritual geniuses like Buddha can do it :D 

    It'll probably take me around 3-4 years to fully master the 10 stages. And I think that is a good time frame for anyone who is committed to the path.  Just keep practicing and don't get distracted trying to do this or that technique.

    Master samadhi and then go for self-enquiry.