Setty

It seems to me that most of the JP bashing here is unjustified. People like to use the term stage blue as if it is something degrating to be and you should strive to get out of it and evolve but evolution has no desirable goal and it is not required for an individual to go through all stages of spiral dynamics in his lifetime. Every stage is suppose to be build on top of the previous one because otherwise the society would be unstable and collapse. JP is trying to figure out what it means to be a true christian and people resonate with his teachings because he elevates them from lower parts of blue to the higher parts. Now tell me how else are stage blue people going to transit to the next stage than through people like Peterson? If you find his teachings wrong then maybe it is because your ego is trying to defend your identification with the higher stages and you can't see the bigger picture.

Well the teachings about enlightement can be pretty dangerous. Ego backslashes can make your life pretty miserable and if you haven't made much reseach it is just too foreign to you to see any benefit of that. When I had my first mystical experiences I had to go through a lot of suffering and confusion to deal with it. Of cource now I am glad I went through with it but I don't really blame people that they are so afraid of it. But I agree that Leo is too hung up on his interpretation of the truth and the right way to approach it but so is every human in existence so it doesn't really discredit him in any major way.

I had peculiar experience this night that have never happened to me before. I mean I had a lot of dreams that were like full-blown trips where I was completely concious and it was freaky as hell but this was totally different. At first it was a dream like any other. I was in some community of very close people. It seemed like the wolrd was at war or something because everything around me was in ruins but the people I knew wanted to make the best of it I guess. I remember a lot of us went to a big hall with a very curous device that people sat in. I know I didn't really know what the device does but I wanted to try it. When I sat there and I couldn't back down anymore the instructor started to tell me what it does. He said I won't be able to move a bit and I will be concious in a delirious state. The device started to move up and down like in a bungee trampoline of some sort. I was very tired and wanted to fall asleep. Then it started to get freaky. The falling down caused me the feeling of waking up to the real world and at the boundary between a dream and a wake state when I was supposed to just wake up from a dream the device pulled me back to the dream fully awake and conscious. I remember that I realized it was not a dream in a bit. I could see and hear normally like I was in a awaken state not sleeping at all. my cognitive abillities were at normal and saying it is just a dream would defy common sense in the same way I would say now this reality is just a dream. Then I remember talking about it with my dearest friends what should we do about it. We knew nobody would trust us and people are occupied with their important worlds trying to find their place in a broken world. Who would even consider the idea that their reality is not really real and there is so much more to it. I also remember right before I finally woke up like I normally should my girlfriend shouted at me that I am just leaving them there running to my safe reality. I remember I wanted to make her understand but she was just very hurt by it then I closed my eyes and I just pictured my room and when I opened them I was awake here. It didn't even felt like waking up to be honest. I just opened my eyes and thats it. My memories faded quicly and I don't remember most of what happened I don't even remember anyone I encountered but I remember the device and how it felt being in it. The situation with the device was very similar to my first trip experience where I was with my friends and I din't know what am I getting myself into and we then just talked how is it possible that nobody really knows about this stuff and that there is a whole new reality in this drug. Has any one of you had something similar happened to them? What other crazy stuff happened to you in a dream state?

There is a lot of activity in our mind we don't regard as thinking but it is. So things like "My mind is empty and it doesn't feel like anything" is a thought or "This is just like going to sleep, so what's the point?" is a thought. So maybe the thing you call not thinking is full of judging and labeling of what you experience that slips through your awareness.

I think the problem is excessive thinking. During the day you need to think about where you go and what you want to do, where to eat and so on but our thoughts don't stop there. We think constantly about everything that doesn't need to be thought about and we miss a lot from our day.

Maybe you should put down spiritual pursuit for a little bit. Spirituality often creates a lot of suffering because people take it too seriously and make it success oriented. They experience these amazing states not realizing that every hill has its valley. The higher you go the lower you fall. Just try to enjoy an ordinary state of consciousness for a few weeks without any spiritual goals in mind. It is not a race and you don't need to rush anything. If spiritual practices create suffering that they are supposed to relieve you from then what's the point really?

Aren't all spiritual practices just traps that are keeping you from realizing the truth? I mean if you are meditating or doing self-inquiry to become something it means you believe you are not it. I think your chance of liberating yourself through meditation is the same as when you are watching cartoons since it has nothing to do with what you do.

Are you on a path of enlightement? If so maybe you are stuck somewhere where you don't really want to be. Enlightenment is wery tricky. All the information about it lead to no place at all. It is a dead end without any reward whatsoever. So all the self-development you have done to get it is essentially pointless. Sounds depressing? Well it's not and that is the beauty of it. It sounds depressing to the ego and the body because when all this is over they are gone but the good news is you are not any of those things. But me saying that is quite pointless because you have heard this thousands of times and it will never go to your true nature because your mind catches it and makes something out of it. Your mind is so powerfull it can create absolutely everything about things that are not happening at all. Realize that everything your mind produces is wrong no matter how convincing it is. It is convincing and true only because you lend it the reality it has. I am one of those people that were trying to get to the truth throught psychedelics but again it leads to nowhere. It just strengthens the minds ability to create stories about reality. That's all it does. It can be beneficial to see that because when you are doing it for the first time it catches your mind off guard and you might see that every story you make about reality is false but as you start doing it as a spiritual practice your clever mind finds a way to make it all about itself especially when you are looking for enlightenment. A few days ago I experienced the "absolute infinity aka god" for myself. It was all clear to me how everything I do is important and it all leads to somewhere. But that is all just interpretation. It's fun to see it for yourself but it isn't stable at all. It colapses immediately because you saw it from a point of an ego and it just can't handle it. I was lucky because I was so convinced that I am god I tried to implement it to the real world. I believed I was chosen do to some important work around here. You know finally be myself (god) and collect my reward. And as you can guess it didn't last long. I had feeling that I can make others do exacly what they should be doing. I never tried using it with real people but I did it with movies and videos on youtube. And it really felt like I can make them to anything I want because I could. And I mean that in a way that you mind can create something out of nothing and it is real for you. So even nothing was happening the mind interpreted it as my doing. So yeah, I was watching some movie and I believed I was this character on the screen. I wanted him to survive because I identified myself with him but in the end he died. I did everthing in my power to prevent that but it was impossible task because it wasn't me I dind't even control it. It was just light on the screen but I believed I really fucking died there! When I saw that happening I sat there completely blank and I finally understood. So yeah you are it. And you have never been not it. These is no need to seek what you are. You are living it.

So I had something you could call enlightenment experience but honestly my rational mind is telling me that I will go insane if I stay on this path. What hapend is that I was meditating and at the same time I was listening to one of the lectures of Alan Watts. I have been on the journey to enlightenment for about a year and I had many what I would call enlightenment experiences using psychedelics but all these experiences compared to what happend this time were close to nothing. I always considered Alan Watts to be enlighntened being and I told myself that if only I could understand what he is actually saying like REALLY undrestand what he is saying I would know the truth and I mean the truth wih the capital T. So I think this is the believe that triggered this event. So what happend? I was meditating and in the video he was talking to his audience as usually. My monkey mind was all over the place ignoring his speech but as the time went all the noises and images in my mind started slowly dissapearing and I was focused only and must emphasize the word ONLY on his voice. Then is started getting weird He said something that I ignored and then he said "Does everyone in this room understand what I am saying?" and I thought "Is he tallking to his audience or me?". You would think that the answer is obvious but as I said at the time there was nothing in my mind but his voice so no thoughts of me watching a youtube video or that he is long dead so it would be impossible to communicate with him anyway none of that. So in my state of mind it was entirely possible that he is taliking to me so I believed it. There was no reason not to since no other thought was oppose to it you see. I don't exactly remember what he was saying but as he was talking it was only more and more obvious that he is talking to me and only me! Everything else in the existence disappeared and there we were only two of us in the entire existence having a conversation. He was using words to communicate and I used thoughts and feelings. It is so bizzare but it happened because I believed it and only because of it. So he started to teach me what it is. The truth about meditation and how to do it properly. How memories work, emotions, thoughts just everything. What is the future and the past and from where they come from and how to control them. And it was so obvious to me. So easy I was like a child just experiencing the whole thing just being. I stopped worrying and I was free. After a few hours in this state I also realized that I am talking to myself. There is no Alan Watts talking to me there is only me and my imagination but the only way to communicate these insights with myself was through the believe that Alan Watts has the answer and the only way to know the truth is that I must listen to him but it was me the whole time I am just it! The big IT. I think I was in this state like for like six hours? But it felt like a minute or so, it wasn't bound by time or space. Anyway I went to sleep and the next morning it wasn't there anymore. I didn't felt like the big IT you know? So the biggest insight I have from this is that you control the reality by believing something will happen and it just will happen. There are no wrong events or good ones it just happens how you want it to happen and it's perfect. The problem is when you try to translate it through words or thoughts it becomes a concept or a thought memory even. Something that isn't grounded in reality and is therefore not true and it stops being true. It's very tricky. So what do you think? Am I going insane doing this or am I onto something? Do you have similar experiences you would share? Also I have these thoughts that I should become a monk or something and get in touch with people with this kind of condition of being so we can figure out what we are. It is a strong desire to do this but I am full of doubts and I am not sure about anything anymore.

It's like repeating a single word over and over again until it loses its meaning and becomes just sound. As you lived your life you felt those sensation in your hand over and over again and then you created a concept that this is your hand and this is how it feels like to have hand. Then you forgot it is a just a group of sensations and you believe it is your hand. It's just like our concept of ourselves got created. We just felt some sensations in our body and parallel to that everyone around us told us this is us so we started to believe this is how it feels to be us. With awareness these concepts can disappear.

Be careful of what your ego is doing right now. On mushrooms you saw some of the truth but as soon as it wear off your ego started to make sense of it. It created concepts that you might consider the truth but it is not. I had this problem when I thought I roughly knew what enlightenment is and during meditative session a was trying to go that direction but it was a dead end. So what I am trying to say is that never think you got any part of enlightenment. Never stop questioning everything in your direct awareness. Once you think you got it you stop seeking and you start to live in a illusion again.

Well there is a lot of horrid things but you are ignoring all the beautifull things that we have in this world you are taking for granted. With this attitude we can solve any number of worlds problems, cure as many diseases as we want but it won't ever enough. A lot of suffering is created because we don't see all the beautiful things we already have.

Isn't earth already pretty cool?

These kinds of trips are dangerous for people that are at the beginning of the journey. Try to understand that the ego loses control over reality so quickly that you don't even realize there is still a little bit left of it and it still distorts the reality. Any negative feelings you have exist because the ego is desperately trying to make reason out of it all but it can't so it makes you feel like shit. Try to focus on the truth without creating any labels you could attach to it. Without labels there is no suffering. It comes down to what you want to believe. If you believe life is meaningless it will be. You have the power to choose if you want to live in suffering or eternal bliss but the only problem is that you don't know how to control your believes that is all.

I had enlightenment experience yesterday and I would like to share it with anyone that is interested. It started when I was explaining to a friend how to meditate. And as I was explaning to him what to do during meditation I realized I am not doing the things I am saying to him myself. That was a little insight I had. So when we started meditating I was determined to follow my own advice without exceptions. And there I was sitting thinking about absolutely nothing alongside the sensentions of the pressure between my eyebrows which was always normal for me during meditative sessions but now when it got worst I did not do anything about it. The pressure started to spread through the upper side of the brain and with each extention the pressure felt more and more like pain. Once the sensation started to drop along the sides of the brain I cound not call it a pressure it was genuine pain. It was freezing, burning, stinging you name it. But the pain wasn't the only thing that was there. There was also this fear of death. Quite litteral fear of death like when you are in a car crash or when you almost fall from a high place. At this point I wanted to quit because this was some heavy shit. But then I remembered something Sadhguru said. Something along the lines: "To make this jump you either must be crazy or have absolute trust of somebody else's words" after that insight I continued. At this point the sensation reached the bottom of my brain and something peculiar happened. I cound not say if the pain is bad or good. It was just there doing no harm just like any other sensation. And when I started to observe other sensations in my body they were doing the same thing. They weren't bad or good they just were. It was a lot like on LSD trip but with more clarity. As I continued I started to have enormous amounts of insights. There were dozends of them flowing throughout my body like it was nothing. I was ecstatic I cound't wait to tell everybody about everything I found about it was so clear! Then I realized that everything I see has been already communicated. Either by Leo or any other guru I listened to. The infomation was always there I just cound't make sense of it because I wasn't aware enough. Then I realized that all the insights I had were being conceptualized. The ego started to put labels on all the insights and it was the most interesting thing I wittnessed in my life. I was able to see the contrast between the labels and the truth! Just by focusing a little bit more I could make the label turn into the truth. And by lowering my focus the truth turned into a label. It was so bizarre it was just oscillating by my will. And this was probably the reason I didn't stay enlightened. The truth was dimmer and dimmer and only the concepts remained. I did fight against it but the ego got the upper hand. I tried to make the distinction between the higher and lower self but that endeavor ended up just in splitting my personality in two. The "higher self" and the "lower self" that were arguing between each other why we should or shoudn't get enlightened but I knew both of these entities were the same ego playing with it self to distract me from the truth so the split of my personality disappeared quite quicly. So here I am not enlightened without the truth or the insights I had they are all gone. The only thing that remained is the pain in the brain area so I think now it will be quite easy to get into that state again but I don't want to get ahead of myself. Also sorry for the grammar mistakes I don't usually post and english is my second language so forgive me that.