Steph1988

@Sahil Pandit But there seems to be an upper limit to me and that is the time and energy you have at your disposal and perhaps your amount of inborn will to do stuff and live the best life you can think off, these seem like real limits to me and also give life some urgency.

Japan, Egypt and a trip through the USA top my list.

@Shin Yes that is why it is interesting, the whole thing requires a clear goal otherwise its potential is wasted.

Is this working out for you guys? It seems very useful but have you put the excess energy to good use in concrete ways? or is this a way to get enough motivation to get more of the real thing somehow? seems to me it is only useful if either or both of those are true otherwise you're just torturing yourself and the extra energy might be wasted on other bad habits. I know the list of benefits speaks for itself but health benefits never motivate me i always need a very clear goal by which it might help. For example i never workout to get healthier really it is just too boring ,health bores me it is something old people could say, when i lift weights i do it for the kick, for the rush and to get stronger,faster,bigger,looking better ( yes looking better for woman as well i admit ) So what do you guys really want out of this? or is the list of benefits enough for you? maybe it is but maybe it requires some more introspection. Just a little thought i had. any thoughts on this?

@General 2 i picked up the guitar at 22 which is quite late i suppose expecting almost nothing from it but a few years later i was playing sweet child of mine with a band, improvement keeps coming and coming now almost 30 i plan to get in 10000 hours more in the next 10 years and by then i want to be a master level guitarist by age 40 lets say. And seeing from my own progress that is not even an unrealistic goal as long as i get the hours in. I think with enough will almost nothing is impossible except maybe in sports if u want to become a world champion in u need to start young, other then that i don't know. But u need to get your habits in order absolutely i do believe that, u need total control and agency and maximize your energy and time available, work less if u can, cut off people that contribute nothing to your well being, get your finances under control and become financially independent. Without all that in place i cannot see myself completing my goals either. Besides that dive into the theory of mastery i think that is extremely important because if u never accomplished something extraordinary when u were younger u might not know the mechanics of mastery the whole concept of it might be alien to you, most adult people i know can't comprehend this, they just have the idea that there are talented people and they themselves are not talented and they are dead wrong, our whole culture is anti mastery, so this book might help ive read it twice now its really good. http://index-of.co.uk/Social-Interactions/Mastery - The Keys To Success And Long-Term Fulfillment - George Leonard.pdf

- discipline,Freedom and time to do what i want whatever that may be - total freedom of speech - selfagency and self reliance, getting the primitive parts of my brain under under control of the higher parts - complete authenticity whatever the circumstance - doing something positive in the world and that may just be being good to my friends,helping family etc just for my small community atleast and wherever i go these are my important things and i've thought a long time about it

Thx for the answers guys appreciated. @aurum Oh i meant compared to my colleagues and parents i see them less, i might see my friends every other week or so but my colleagues/parents every day so their influence is much much stronger and i wanted to take the quote as literately as i could.

I wonder how strong the power of the feedback loop is and i wonder about your experiences with it if you can recall. I will be moving out my parents house again after 2 years of moving back and although i made good progress i would say with a lot of my plans my self development is lagging behind i feel, it has gone to slow for my taste in 2 years and i wonder how big homeostasis played a part in that. Now my plan was since joining this forum to move out ASAP of the house, that was priority nr 1. and that is succeeding now i think it is crucial that i do. But to get to the point you have this quote that goes like this ''you are the average of the 5 people you spend the most time with'' Well that would be my parents and my colleagues at the moment. Now i don't really like this to be honest to describe people i love like this ( because i do love them ) and it almost feels like violating my own privacy but anyway - My mother is extremely caring and sweet but a bit to caring she always kept me out of difficult situations, i did not have to do any chores or anything at all. everything was always taken care off, i was practically raised by her. - My father is a whole different story he seems to be indifferent to anything i do, never asks anything and does't care about anything, he watches sports and sits behind his PC mainly, he is even hostile to me when i'm talking self improvement for example when i began about trying cold showers he said it was all bullshit and the only ever tip i got from him was do good at school so you can get a good job and no kidding that is not exaggerated. - The 3 colleagues i see most are mostly interested in talking about sports ( watching of course ) drinking massive amounts of alcohol and talking about it,cars,winning the lottery etc you know the deal my relation to them is ok and we can joke around which is nice but very superficial, and again. So these are my 5 people and i wonder how powerful of an influence that is because i'm around them practically everyday and of course i can't see my friends as often as them. I will develop myself anyway but it is not easy without encouragement, and i'm not satisfied at all yet Soon i have my own place and i would like to report back about it within 6 months or so. But what are your experiences? how crucial was moving out of the house to you? and did any of you have similar situations?

@SFRL Of course we should, We also should build supercomputers, explore all the ocean's, colonize space, try to extend our lifespan, develop endless energy sources etc, Why? not for improvement whatever that is, but for adventures sake, because it will be incredibly interesting and fun, What else could we be doing? develop the i phone 2000? or build another 10 versions of Facebook? Or develop another 10000 ways to get 6 pack abs? In my opinion one of the biggest sins in our greed driven system if u ask me is one i never heard anyone mention before and that is that it is boring as hell.

So iv'e had success in in the last 10 months i basically worked my ass off to set myself up for success as i define success. 1. i have a good idea of what i want ( maybe not my lifepurpose yet but at least what i among other things want to have in life and what i like ) 2. got decent savings and moving out my parents house within a month or 2 3. have enough knowledge (intellectually) of routines,habits,etc 4. Got all the logistics in place soon ( finishing my house,building my home gym and my job close by) despite all of that thoughts can creep up in between my activities and i mostly don't really know what to do with the time i have noting going on i'm just extremely neurotic and i think until i'm exhausted or i watch self development stuff and documantary's on you tube endlessly, i can't calm my mind and i'm in such a rush to make up for the time i have wasted in my 20's ( almost 30 now ) by playing video games and being depressed for half the time. I almost can't even see my successes since i began self development a few years ago. there is so much still to do and to work on namely dating/getting very fit/mastery in something all things i want to do and be better at. the will is there but this should be a fun relaxed journey. Is this where meditation should step in? and does anyone have experience with this state of mind? anyone else here feeling the rush despite successes?

@Nahm @SOUL Thx for the answers Is contentment in being in the now something u just decided to do, did it come easy to you or was it a struggle? One of the most ironic things is that self development got me going leading an active life but it made me also aware of how behind i was on so many things and that made me more neurotic. I would like to go back to the more timeless state of mind i had when i was a child u know i could be intensely happy from staring into a fishpond for an hour sitting in the garden. reminds me of something Alan watts said about running and art, he said that most people run to improve themselves but u should run because u like the sensation of running. And a lot of people go to art galleries to improve their artistic side but u should just go because u like seeing art and i really like that idea but i tend to get sucked into improving myself again. Maybe this is a logical progression to the next state that is the most positive thing i can think of.

@Wasem Yes true its who i am for a big part, i did it for 15 years or so before i started to replace it with working out for example @cirkussmile i play music and i exercise besides working and social life, meditation is something i put off up to this point i'm still willing to give it a go but it is yet another thing to learn among all the other stuff that is also hard, which is the reason why i put it off probably.

@d0ornokey I kind of know what u feel although i don't know how severe it is. I have had that problem recently as i am busy renovating a house i bought and i have zero skills that area. So i bought it and was extremely happy about it and finally i could learn these skills which is also my goal of developing but then it was time to actually go do it and i felt extremely overwhelmed in spite of the help i got, i realized then how much i had to learn and i didn´t even know where to start. I had a LOT of stress the first few weeks. A few months in now and i can say that the solution to this problem was that first accepting you´re a total noob in this and just start on something, of course u instantly run into problems and from there it is nonstop problem solving of little stuff one at a time, break up the problem into a 1000 small problems that u can handle and don´t be afraid to ask loads of people for help most will gladly help you. Maybe your problem is that you don´t know how to teach yourself that is a frequent problem in this age of comfort and easy entertainment and i suffered so long from it, it also KILLS your self esteem and it is slightly traumatic for me because i was addicted to videogames so long that i did not really know how to teach myself real skills is this true for you too? Probably the only answer to this is to get attain mastery in something of your choosing and to go right through the pain. It helps me i know that for a fact. Do you have experience in mastering a particular skill?

I had this problem for the longest time, i drowned in comfort and i could not really solve it for myself at home with my parents and just take up a routine. So i took another job besides the one i had and working 2 jobs i could afford a house finally for myself and that might be a game changer because i notice when i'm not around my parents i'm far less stifled with everything/way more disciplined and i have no idea of how that works, i don't know the psychology behind it but it seems for me the only thing that worked. So maybe just try to pick up a job and one that is a little bit challenging but one that doesn't require you to make a career out of it, i took up working in kitchens/butchershops, delivering newspapers, carrying stones in construction work, playing guitar in a band. and it at least puts me into motion and it all contributed to moving out my parents house. If you can't do it all by yourself just throw yourself into something that kinda forces you into a routine and combine it with a minimalist lifestyle so you have enough money to be relatively free, it is the best i can come up with and i wish i knew this at age 16 instead of 29.

I would think that with the help of internet and all the knowledge being easily available that would change massively but i don't know of anyone in my life that attempts to want to do some internal work and that makes it harder for me as well i think. I know guys that take up some personal development work mostly on working out really hard and getting ripped, working hard, getting disciplined which is good right? And after that falling victim to ego issue's, i feel the rat race then is still there and nothing is achieved really, i do see that a lot but i think that is doing self development at like 30%. Awareness, value's, introspecting the spiritual work is still missing. @electroBeam Scrolling up as i write this down u beat me to it! that are my thoughts about it too U know eating healthy, exercise discipline is what the Nazi's preached as well so clearly its not enough and the rat race is bad as ever.

Did the test,9% percent darker then average but is it really dark to feel a little grandiose sometimes? it is necessary for the sake of independence i feel.

@Ryan_047 I try to see it more simple as of late there is no need for existential crisis, we are all here and we can do stuff we love and find fun and you pursue that because it feels good and that is enough, why is that not enough? For example i love playing guitar and i really need no explanation why i love that, i love music because i love music, i feel good making music and listening to it. Same for doing stuff with friends, cooking a nice meal, having sex, walking though nature, watching a good movie, reading a good book, having a good workout etc etc. There can be huge struggles in attaining all that stuff but that is also what gives it its meaning, no white without black, no darkness without light and no pleasure without struggle. The good feelings and the dopamine hits are not simple chemical reactions, what can a microscope and a brain scan tell you really ? it shows that something is happening in your head yes but what really? where is the evidence of it being meaningless ? noone knows their deeper meaning now, maybe after a million years of evolution we can tell about the meaning but right now just try to get the good things for the sake of it being good things and that is all we know and good enough for now. once you can see this an existential crisis like that looks completely absurd. If you had major trauma of some sort maybe there are different rules and so if that is case i cannot completely comprehend what that means for you and i want to be humble about that because life can get extremely awesome as well as extremely tragic, ive read enough dark stuff about serial killers, concentration camps, wars, torture, plagues, drugwars etc etc but realizing that life can be that bad it is clear to me that we must try to live for the good much more and knowing the good and the bad it is clear what to strive for. Feeling good,getting dopamine hits, feeling love, humor is all real to me because u can feel it. is in short completely self evident. That is the best conclusion i can come up with and i gave that a LOT of thought because i have had these depressive times myself and i can tell you that you're wrong about it all being meaningless. That is also the reason i'm reacting because i can relate to it a bit and i think you have to lose this attitude as it is a time/energy waste u will realize this sooner or later.

Why would you want that? what about funny thoughts? is there humor without thoughts?

Yes an 80 hour workweek is fine as long as you have a mission that feels important enough to you and that actually is important. What is the definition on work though what about raising your children, visiting your grandparents and taking time for them, caring for animals,planting a garden, reading, thinking,spiritual work, helping out a friend who is moving, etc etc, in my definition this is also work and work that is extremely important. but when you are 80 hours a week at your job you are neglecting this most likely and i have experience with it. Even worse, mainstream society places the following ''productive'' stuff in the ''work'' category, call center marketeers, commercial makers, lobbyists, salespeople,salespeople and more salespeople really everywhere,how many do we need to have as a society, and then of course we buy to much stuff which requires more stores that also need supply so more trucks driving and in turn more roads and people who build them and people who supply the people who build them and so on and on. So the question is this , what justifies my 80h/week time investment what actually is more important, my family/friends/passions/spiritual development/physical fitness or making more money for my boss so he can buy that Maserati/huge house/yacht and then you can have a little bit extra money (but not much) and increased status ( allthough i think status is currency for weak minded people without a soul ) or he forgets you completely. Now Elon musk is actually doing great revolutionary stuff and not all business is bad of course capitalism works to a certain extend but i wish it was working more towards a common good and not to satisfying endless consumption addiction. And as i look around me i see few jobs that are worth working so hard for. There are also jobs that are actually important but they are not interesting enough to work 80 hours a week in really do you want to work 80 hours as a plumber,garbageman,bus driver,window cleaner? these are jobs that are of use but not to work 80 hours for right? In my opinion you have to think it through all the way and then make your choice.

sounds like a plan!

@Emerald That sounds like a much better strategy. I want to leave competition behind as much as possible it drives you mad and i also think you are incapable of loving someone while in that state at least seems that way for me.

@Emerald Thx love your explanation, certainly a more positive outlook and honestly i hope i was wrong here because the world i described depresses me a bit i don't feel like competing all the time i want to lift people up but if i am completely honest i don't want most people doing way better then me either. I won't drag anyone down because i am too aware for that and i want to live by principles but it would still hurt seeing people my age doing way better then me even if i am not doing that bad myself and of course it does not help but its still there, it is very subtle sometimes but it is there. I really love to see my friends doing well but not doing better like 10 times as well. I think this is the competition a lot of guys feel and maybe you can't relate at all (that would be interesting actually) Its really stupid i know, my day can be perfect and everything can go right but if for example i would be challenged to an arm wrestling match a by guy as big as me and i would lose that means depression for the rest of the day i kid you not. This is me being as honest as possible self esteem is relatively good for me actually most of the time but never unconditional. Can we ever lose this completely i have no idea i can only imagine how relaxed that would feel like. I take your advice with me tho it sounds very logical to me maybe it is not as bad as i think .

@Emerald I wonder what you think about @Mad Max his comment further to the top. What if woman are unconsciously attracted to such men and have no control over it, and you really don't have control over that. that would mean it is still necessary you would simply leave us no choice but to compete in dominance hierarchies. And what a dominance hierarchy is well it used to be the best hunter or the most powerful warrior. today we may have the luxury that the possibilities are nearly endless, maybe there is a dominance hierarchy for being the most spiritual guy as well who knows well that would be kinda cynical maybe there may just be such a competition going on here and the players don't even know it. This is just a little thought i don't know this its just a feeling that this might be a possibility that it is all a hugely complicated incredibly elaborate mating ritual. some things seem crystal clear to me those are that guy's need something in their life that they are really good at, they need some responsibility, they need challenges and that is what self esteem seems to be based on for me at least and that is what becoming a man seems to be about. And maybe for girls there is some overlap in that i'm male so i don't really know but i say it from a male perspective. To me it looks like something that is (still) necessary, what do you think?

INTJ-T from INTJ-A Self development put some fire into me for certain i'm no longer lazy but extremely hardworking and goal focused but the turbulent trait seems right because i also burn out fast and i'm still outcome dependent in a lot of situations things have to go right otherwise i begin to doubt myself. I got slightly more insane i think, i wish i could be more happy and satisfied because there was a lot of improvement in lots of area's last 2 years.

Yeah i think i do know that feeling and maybe that is a result of getting slightly older, there is more urgency to use time strategically maybe and also because at 29 you've tried some stuff and you know what u like and dislike i for example feel more and more the need to be as independent as possible so i don't want to devote much time on a career i prefer to be a minimalist in my lifestyle to save up money so i have more leverage there. your'e business might become your passion once the money rolls in and u know you did it yourself that is quite a feat already most people have no idea how that works and how to set it up.