Steph1988

- discipline,Freedom and time to do what i want whatever that may be - total freedom of speech - selfagency and self reliance, getting the primitive parts of my brain under under control of the higher parts - complete authenticity whatever the circumstance - doing something positive in the world and that may just be being good to my friends,helping family etc just for my small community atleast and wherever i go these are my important things and i've thought a long time about it

Thx for the answers guys appreciated. @aurum Oh i meant compared to my colleagues and parents i see them less, i might see my friends every other week or so but my colleagues/parents every day so their influence is much much stronger and i wanted to take the quote as literately as i could.

I wonder how strong the power of the feedback loop is and i wonder about your experiences with it if you can recall. I will be moving out my parents house again after 2 years of moving back and although i made good progress i would say with a lot of my plans my self development is lagging behind i feel, it has gone to slow for my taste in 2 years and i wonder how big homeostasis played a part in that. Now my plan was since joining this forum to move out ASAP of the house, that was priority nr 1. and that is succeeding now i think it is crucial that i do. But to get to the point you have this quote that goes like this ''you are the average of the 5 people you spend the most time with'' Well that would be my parents and my colleagues at the moment. Now i don't really like this to be honest to describe people i love like this ( because i do love them ) and it almost feels like violating my own privacy but anyway - My mother is extremely caring and sweet but a bit to caring she always kept me out of difficult situations, i did not have to do any chores or anything at all. everything was always taken care off, i was practically raised by her. - My father is a whole different story he seems to be indifferent to anything i do, never asks anything and does't care about anything, he watches sports and sits behind his PC mainly, he is even hostile to me when i'm talking self improvement for example when i began about trying cold showers he said it was all bullshit and the only ever tip i got from him was do good at school so you can get a good job and no kidding that is not exaggerated. - The 3 colleagues i see most are mostly interested in talking about sports ( watching of course ) drinking massive amounts of alcohol and talking about it,cars,winning the lottery etc you know the deal my relation to them is ok and we can joke around which is nice but very superficial, and again. So these are my 5 people and i wonder how powerful of an influence that is because i'm around them practically everyday and of course i can't see my friends as often as them. I will develop myself anyway but it is not easy without encouragement, and i'm not satisfied at all yet Soon i have my own place and i would like to report back about it within 6 months or so. But what are your experiences? how crucial was moving out of the house to you? and did any of you have similar situations?

@SFRL Of course we should, We also should build supercomputers, explore all the ocean's, colonize space, try to extend our lifespan, develop endless energy sources etc, Why? not for improvement whatever that is, but for adventures sake, because it will be incredibly interesting and fun, What else could we be doing? develop the i phone 2000? or build another 10 versions of Facebook? Or develop another 10000 ways to get 6 pack abs? In my opinion one of the biggest sins in our greed driven system if u ask me is one i never heard anyone mention before and that is that it is boring as hell.

So iv'e had success in in the last 10 months i basically worked my ass off to set myself up for success as i define success. 1. i have a good idea of what i want ( maybe not my lifepurpose yet but at least what i among other things want to have in life and what i like ) 2. got decent savings and moving out my parents house within a month or 2 3. have enough knowledge (intellectually) of routines,habits,etc 4. Got all the logistics in place soon ( finishing my house,building my home gym and my job close by) despite all of that thoughts can creep up in between my activities and i mostly don't really know what to do with the time i have noting going on i'm just extremely neurotic and i think until i'm exhausted or i watch self development stuff and documantary's on you tube endlessly, i can't calm my mind and i'm in such a rush to make up for the time i have wasted in my 20's ( almost 30 now ) by playing video games and being depressed for half the time. I almost can't even see my successes since i began self development a few years ago. there is so much still to do and to work on namely dating/getting very fit/mastery in something all things i want to do and be better at. the will is there but this should be a fun relaxed journey. Is this where meditation should step in? and does anyone have experience with this state of mind? anyone else here feeling the rush despite successes?

@Nahm @SOUL Thx for the answers Is contentment in being in the now something u just decided to do, did it come easy to you or was it a struggle? One of the most ironic things is that self development got me going leading an active life but it made me also aware of how behind i was on so many things and that made me more neurotic. I would like to go back to the more timeless state of mind i had when i was a child u know i could be intensely happy from staring into a fishpond for an hour sitting in the garden. reminds me of something Alan watts said about running and art, he said that most people run to improve themselves but u should run because u like the sensation of running. And a lot of people go to art galleries to improve their artistic side but u should just go because u like seeing art and i really like that idea but i tend to get sucked into improving myself again. Maybe this is a logical progression to the next state that is the most positive thing i can think of.

@Wasem Yes true its who i am for a big part, i did it for 15 years or so before i started to replace it with working out for example @cirkussmile i play music and i exercise besides working and social life, meditation is something i put off up to this point i'm still willing to give it a go but it is yet another thing to learn among all the other stuff that is also hard, which is the reason why i put it off probably.

@d0ornokey I kind of know what u feel although i don't know how severe it is. I have had that problem recently as i am busy renovating a house i bought and i have zero skills that area. So i bought it and was extremely happy about it and finally i could learn these skills which is also my goal of developing but then it was time to actually go do it and i felt extremely overwhelmed in spite of the help i got, i realized then how much i had to learn and i didn´t even know where to start. I had a LOT of stress the first few weeks. A few months in now and i can say that the solution to this problem was that first accepting you´re a total noob in this and just start on something, of course u instantly run into problems and from there it is nonstop problem solving of little stuff one at a time, break up the problem into a 1000 small problems that u can handle and don´t be afraid to ask loads of people for help most will gladly help you. Maybe your problem is that you don´t know how to teach yourself that is a frequent problem in this age of comfort and easy entertainment and i suffered so long from it, it also KILLS your self esteem and it is slightly traumatic for me because i was addicted to videogames so long that i did not really know how to teach myself real skills is this true for you too? Probably the only answer to this is to get attain mastery in something of your choosing and to go right through the pain. It helps me i know that for a fact. Do you have experience in mastering a particular skill?

I had this problem for the longest time, i drowned in comfort and i could not really solve it for myself at home with my parents and just take up a routine. So i took another job besides the one i had and working 2 jobs i could afford a house finally for myself and that might be a game changer because i notice when i'm not around my parents i'm far less stifled with everything/way more disciplined and i have no idea of how that works, i don't know the psychology behind it but it seems for me the only thing that worked. So maybe just try to pick up a job and one that is a little bit challenging but one that doesn't require you to make a career out of it, i took up working in kitchens/butchershops, delivering newspapers, carrying stones in construction work, playing guitar in a band. and it at least puts me into motion and it all contributed to moving out my parents house. If you can't do it all by yourself just throw yourself into something that kinda forces you into a routine and combine it with a minimalist lifestyle so you have enough money to be relatively free, it is the best i can come up with and i wish i knew this at age 16 instead of 29.

I would think that with the help of internet and all the knowledge being easily available that would change massively but i don't know of anyone in my life that attempts to want to do some internal work and that makes it harder for me as well i think. I know guys that take up some personal development work mostly on working out really hard and getting ripped, working hard, getting disciplined which is good right? And after that falling victim to ego issue's, i feel the rat race then is still there and nothing is achieved really, i do see that a lot but i think that is doing self development at like 30%. Awareness, value's, introspecting the spiritual work is still missing. @electroBeam Scrolling up as i write this down u beat me to it! that are my thoughts about it too U know eating healthy, exercise discipline is what the Nazi's preached as well so clearly its not enough and the rat race is bad as ever.

Did the test,9% percent darker then average but is it really dark to feel a little grandiose sometimes? it is necessary for the sake of independence i feel.

@Ryan_047 I try to see it more simple as of late there is no need for existential crisis, we are all here and we can do stuff we love and find fun and you pursue that because it feels good and that is enough, why is that not enough? For example i love playing guitar and i really need no explanation why i love that, i love music because i love music, i feel good making music and listening to it. Same for doing stuff with friends, cooking a nice meal, having sex, walking though nature, watching a good movie, reading a good book, having a good workout etc etc. There can be huge struggles in attaining all that stuff but that is also what gives it its meaning, no white without black, no darkness without light and no pleasure without struggle. The good feelings and the dopamine hits are not simple chemical reactions, what can a microscope and a brain scan tell you really ? it shows that something is happening in your head yes but what really? where is the evidence of it being meaningless ? noone knows their deeper meaning now, maybe after a million years of evolution we can tell about the meaning but right now just try to get the good things for the sake of it being good things and that is all we know and good enough for now. once you can see this an existential crisis like that looks completely absurd. If you had major trauma of some sort maybe there are different rules and so if that is case i cannot completely comprehend what that means for you and i want to be humble about that because life can get extremely awesome as well as extremely tragic, ive read enough dark stuff about serial killers, concentration camps, wars, torture, plagues, drugwars etc etc but realizing that life can be that bad it is clear to me that we must try to live for the good much more and knowing the good and the bad it is clear what to strive for. Feeling good,getting dopamine hits, feeling love, humor is all real to me because u can feel it. is in short completely self evident. That is the best conclusion i can come up with and i gave that a LOT of thought because i have had these depressive times myself and i can tell you that you're wrong about it all being meaningless. That is also the reason i'm reacting because i can relate to it a bit and i think you have to lose this attitude as it is a time/energy waste u will realize this sooner or later.

Why would you want that? what about funny thoughts? is there humor without thoughts?

Yes an 80 hour workweek is fine as long as you have a mission that feels important enough to you and that actually is important. What is the definition on work though what about raising your children, visiting your grandparents and taking time for them, caring for animals,planting a garden, reading, thinking,spiritual work, helping out a friend who is moving, etc etc, in my definition this is also work and work that is extremely important. but when you are 80 hours a week at your job you are neglecting this most likely and i have experience with it. Even worse, mainstream society places the following ''productive'' stuff in the ''work'' category, call center marketeers, commercial makers, lobbyists, salespeople,salespeople and more salespeople really everywhere,how many do we need to have as a society, and then of course we buy to much stuff which requires more stores that also need supply so more trucks driving and in turn more roads and people who build them and people who supply the people who build them and so on and on. So the question is this , what justifies my 80h/week time investment what actually is more important, my family/friends/passions/spiritual development/physical fitness or making more money for my boss so he can buy that Maserati/huge house/yacht and then you can have a little bit extra money (but not much) and increased status ( allthough i think status is currency for weak minded people without a soul ) or he forgets you completely. Now Elon musk is actually doing great revolutionary stuff and not all business is bad of course capitalism works to a certain extend but i wish it was working more towards a common good and not to satisfying endless consumption addiction. And as i look around me i see few jobs that are worth working so hard for. There are also jobs that are actually important but they are not interesting enough to work 80 hours a week in really do you want to work 80 hours as a plumber,garbageman,bus driver,window cleaner? these are jobs that are of use but not to work 80 hours for right? In my opinion you have to think it through all the way and then make your choice.

INTJ-T from INTJ-A Self development put some fire into me for certain i'm no longer lazy but extremely hardworking and goal focused but the turbulent trait seems right because i also burn out fast and i'm still outcome dependent in a lot of situations things have to go right otherwise i begin to doubt myself. I got slightly more insane i think, i wish i could be more happy and satisfied because there was a lot of improvement in lots of area's last 2 years.

Yeah i think i do know that feeling and maybe that is a result of getting slightly older, there is more urgency to use time strategically maybe and also because at 29 you've tried some stuff and you know what u like and dislike i for example feel more and more the need to be as independent as possible so i don't want to devote much time on a career i prefer to be a minimalist in my lifestyle to save up money so i have more leverage there. your'e business might become your passion once the money rolls in and u know you did it yourself that is quite a feat already most people have no idea how that works and how to set it up.

Different situation here but some comparisons, 29 as well, just bought a house after 10 years of saving money, working 32 hours (full time sucks), almost no schooling or diploma's because i started working at 18 which means no debt but i'm stuck at a relatively low income. The idea of getting a form of passive income besides a job becomes more and more alluring to me but i have no idea how to go about it if at all, My bold move was buying/renovating the house which was my project for the last years, within a few months it will be finished and i will be having real spare time for the first time in about 6 months because i had to work 2 jobs to do so. If there is one thing that i have learned from this it is that your habit of working hard can be stretched to what u before thought was impossible, you are tougher then u think and if final victory means working 60-80 hours a week for some time it can easily be done as long as you can see the finish line somewhere. I think with this new work ethic ( which i didn't have before i was quite lazy) i will be more successful with other things too. BTW what will your business be about?

I agree i find that vagueness counterproductive and some people here are just unable to say anything concrete, it is a little dissapointing. But luckily there are also some great posts and comments, often great stories keep me coming back.

Hahaha this is so relatable to me. Having too many interests, i once saw a documantary about fighting dogs on TV and the next week i spend about a dozen hours learning everything about guard and war dogs and how to train them,what breeds were the best, etc 2 weeks further i remembered about 20% of it and then the interest faded, And then ofcourse another subject catches my interest. Leo's reply is good i think u just shake yourself awake that works for me although i still now and then waste time on yet another subject .

I do like the show on the on hand because of all the plots it does a lot of things brilliantly, for example the red wedding episode is brilliant and shocking. On the other hand there is no one to root for in this series, almost everyone has evil motives and the few that you can root for are hopelessly naive and powerless, it is a world without any hope there is too much misery incest,betrayal of friends,child murder,exploding heads,torture, and you just almost hope for a god in that universe that destroys the whole world and resets it. granted i did not watch last 2 seasons because again i just found noone to root for. How different is that with for example in lord of the rings now that is a world that is horrible but there is always some hope left you always feel that while GOT is just a spiritually barren wasteland and dead in every way at least that was my feeling about it. I really wonder if some u guys feel that way as well about it.

@Lawrence Damn i read it last year it is indeed mind blowing can confirm!

@Joseph Maynor Schools are not set up to bring about the best in someone, they are set up to process kids to be adapted to society and and be cogs in a big machine you can check out https://archive.org/stream/TheUndergroundHistoryOfAmericanEducation_758/TheUndergroundHistoryOfAmericanEducation#page/n21/mode/2up that gives all the reading u need on why schools are the way they are. They are probably well meaning teachers out there but the system is so inefficient for example think about the bell ringing every 50 mins or so for a new subject and to be in a class with 30 or so kids. On the other hand maybe it is better this way because who decides what Personal development is? in the case of school it would be the state, it is more up to the parents i think and maybe the only solution is to cut some school time and people start working slightly less at their jobs spending more time with there kids and with themselves of course to bring out the best in them it should be up to the individual and all you can do is encourage, u can't force this. This comes back to an extremely tough discussion of who decides what is best and can people be trusted with the raising of their own kids and teaching and encouraging them, it is tempting to say you can't trust most of them but we probably have to. Last thing i would say and this goes against the part above completely is that since i follow all Jordan Peterson's courses i would say yes it is a science and yes it should be taught, listen to what he has to say, it is true self development. So i guess to conclude yes should be taught in my opinion but we should be extremely careful who does it and who is it ultimately for it should be for the individual and you should be learning how to think well which is actually extremely hard. also just a thought by excluding it maybe we are teaching something else, namely that life is about getting a job and buying nice stuff because that is what society is indirectly saying doing the stuff we do now, we need the big questions in our life, we need to learn how to think. excuse the long answer i feel this is to hard to answer without nuance but this is what i think.

@Shin Got it i understand u better now i think. you just accept the situation as it comes no matter how tough your situation is that is the only way to grow and that is also the best of getting stuff done. From a practical perspective i guess i understand. maybe we are in agreement actually but we use different words and that is logical because its all so incredibly nuanced.

@faith Oh completely agreed that we should look at everyone's point of view even the worst criminals in history, but something about mindless conformity and the sassy attitude ( granted is also motivated by willing to conform ) calls up a deep sense of disgust with me. BTW i do think what u said is true about it being a defense mechanism most of the time but not always. Maybe people can get sassy after having achieved a personal victory while everyone said that person would not be able to do it, well what does that do for a person, it be going to the other end and going in against the stream so its the complete opposite reason for being sassy, i can see such a thing happening as well.

@Afonso - more energy - looking prettier - increasing your lifespan - study suggest it makes u smarter or keep you smart longer - keeping deceases away - good for your hart and blood pressure - and yes confidence why not it should just not be a crutch. - it will even be kind of fun after a while and... let me ask you this, if u u are afraid it will just boost your ego? are u not massively acknowledging your ego? Just go ahead and do it regularly, it is doable Currently i'm focused on work and i work 5-6 days a week of 10-12 hours still i do a daily ( ok i skip sometimes but not much ) 50 push up 50 sit up 8 pull up well that is no tough work out but doing it everyday makes me quite fit actually and i even made gains in my shoulders. its not hard if you do it daily after 2 weeks if u are not motivated by all the endless list of benefits science has proven just do because it makes u feel real good and that's it really don't look deeper and just do it !