ValiantSalvatore

@kieranperez Is the adaptation not better as when stuff is normal or baseline? Or is it better without any kind of nootropic add. Meditation for 1h definitely helped, I broke my schedule to two times 30 min a day which is somehow not that effective for monkey mind. Did you ever try a do-nothing technique for some time? I bet this soudn stupid when reading.

@kieranperez Sounds legit. In case you have not tried bacopa you could give it a shot. Potentially it can help since it is not a synthetic component and would not mix as much with the synthetic stuff, it's an adaptogen. So, it also reduced stress and or rather increases stress resistance. Also, effects of adaptogens can overlap which nullifies the effect one specific effect other effects do work. ( lions mane, bacopa, ginseng most likely etc. are adaptogens) Bacopa definitely can/could help be an aid, and the effects are long term even without bacopa? Not sure if IIRC. Yet, the hold long if you take them for longer then 8-12 weeks. I do not recall the study/paper anymore. Yes, I did read that, I know someone who took addreal or how this stuff is written and he is the best person in our courses, even though he played video games in class etc. He often worked at night and he was industrious, I don't know him well though. So, I don't know if it bothers him. Yet, I assume it does not. He is also dyslexic. Still, very intelligent guy. Our crazy performance prof hired him lol. Would be very cool if you find an affordable device, I looked into the topic yesterday. I also heard the very good devices are just not affordable. Also, yoga sounds very cool. I would love to get into yoga, but this small town here is just horrendous. Does yoga help against add? If yes why?

@kieranperez Lion's mane and bacopa moonerie are supposed to help. I don't have ADHD, my teacher who had ADHD once asked me if I had it, because I seemed to be so inattentive. I tried both, in case you forget a lot bacopa can definitely help, it takes a while though before the effects kick in 8-12 weeks, and the baccosid percentage has to be somewhere of 35% to 55%. I read through the studies. As well as I can. Lions mane can work immediately, it was not very effective for me, l-theanine a bit more. Yet, I don't know if it works with dealing with ADHD, Lions mane most likely can't hurt. Here is also a different perspective of ADD and do-nothing meditation. I did a retreat for 14 days last year in the soto-zen lineage. After that I felt processes were more streamlined and I was not so troubled by monkey mind. I tried the technique also at home, for some time. I had the deepest experiences with this technique so far, even during LSD trips, so it could aid both, a path to enlightenment and dealing with ADD. It is supposed to also be the quick and dirty way to enlightenment. According to this teacher. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNV6Y_JlhoA I bought a stack of nootropics that seem high quality but are cheap price wise. To deal with inattentiveness, I will write a report when I am done testing them, yet this is mostly for the inattentive type of ADHD, and has caffeine in it.

@universe What kind of meditation do you practice? I looked into the Sedona method, it's not what I meant, it seems more a self-inquiry technique, yet not a fundamental principle of a visualization technique.

@now is forever Sure, I won't I often find that creativity shines there. It should be somewhere on the 4 charts where the motivations are described of each vMeme.

@now is forever This is mainly what I have in mind after reading the chart yesterday and all the audiobooks. I ordered the older version of spiral dynamics from don beck. The audiobook version is quite unsatisfying if you want to have some juicy details, the author even mentions that in the audiobook. What are hybrids? Theory and practicality combined? Sure, purposefully driven stage red drives for creative means can be nice. Yet, I really would like to know what creativity is in that regard. When I see musicians it or I just listen to instrumentals of music, I can see and feel stage red often. Same for sports, or when I listen to people talk/explain. It's quite funny when stage blue get's mad at stage red during a soccer game.

@now is forever I can see why, stage red is associated with unconstrained creativity. Or with creativity. Spiral Dynamics in Action presents that as that. In one chart.

@Charlotte https://integrallife.com/the-3-2-1-shadow-process/ The video explains the process very well. Also, it shows the talking chair method. Which the 3-2-1 method is based on with a partner even. The sign-up for 30 days only is worth it. I used to do it and was cheap, now I am a member of the forum there. https://integralchurch.wordpress.com/2013/10/05/3-2-1-shadow-process/ Explains the process very well. This is what I started with. I still anticipate that psychedelics and shamanic breathing are the best way, yet the 3-2-1 process most likely is the safest. @now is forever I'd love to give a more elaborate answer, I have to go soon. I notice this tendency of being perfect is especially, in Germany now a bit more common under millennials. Near my city, a military base is stationed with 50k Americans largest base outside of u.s. So, I see a lot of orange/green, blue/orange people in "my" region from the American culture. Which explains a bit the perfect, excellence, discipline paradigm for me. Especially, with Instagram nowadays and the internet. What I meant to say is I have similar tendencies, about perfection you see something perfect a couple, a financial situation, intelligence you name it literally. Shadow work can unearth some of these tendencies, especially with loving-kindness it helps. I used to be very jealous of other people with very cool cars, even if I do not like cars that much. I did tong-leng and whished them happiness, and was happy instead for them. Only for 5-10 minutes a day for 1 and a half years or so. This worked wonders. / quite well. What is the book about? I watched a couple of series from Ken Wilber about shadow and other YouTubers. + Audiobooks where it is often mentioned

@Joseph Maynor From watching a videos and listening to audiobooks and series where shadow work is mentioned or a topic. Using the 3-2-1 process which is similar to Fritz Pearls technique or a basically a derivate of gestalt therapy. The link to the exact extraction of the technique from wilber from the original work. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestalt_therapy#The_empty_chair_technique. I'd have to read the whole thing to give a technical/detailed analysis. Reading through the original wiki clears things up. imo What I notice is when I project that I am denying qualities and tiny treasures inside myself, behaviors, world views, "stages" in terms of spiral dynamics, situational relating, and so forth. Projection largely for me is the denial of qualities in oneself which have been denied or repressed, as a means of ego survival. Seeing all this in relation shadow work, projection and shadow. As an example in your journal, you posted your big 5 aspects ... so, for instance, I score in the 41 percentile of assertiveness which is below average for a male. Now when I meet people who are very extroverted and assertive, this used to trigger me in the past, I always felt it is disrespectful and cold. But, I admired the audacity and how unabashed extroverted people are. So, I immediately used this in shadow work because it was a trigger from the unconscious and noticed that I project my own unabashed, cold-hearted nature on to them and their way of anger and conflict management, was more of a healthy ego measurement to stand up for one's SELF. Now, when I am being more assertive now after doing shadow work, I am not fearful anymore of saying what I want, saying no, saying yes I care, no I do not care, and basically stopped being a victim, yet my own non-caring attitude or low pivotal point of assertiveness still remains. It's like I have the means to the end, but I have to stick through it through the end with a healthy more integrated low assertive assertiveness mean/s. Which is not always easy, yet helps to resolve conflict with assertive people more easily. Another example is Vulnerability, very emotional people who are vulnerable used to trigger me immensely, and push my own emotional buttons, even in a healthy manner hurts and still hurts today. Depending on how sensitive the person is. I projected my own denied qualities of caring and caretaking on to them, seeing them as irrational, weak or unable to assess competence since they are so fluffy. Now, I found my own fluffiness through shadow work and the projected qualities of being irrational and weak, and unable to assess competence even comes in handy. For instance consider the dunning-krugger effect the most sensitive person has the most potential to see this IMO, see any INFP. Being irrational gives me more leeway to talk crap and not feel the need to be the expert 24/7 and felt like I am able to chisel concepts in a free-floating manner more easily. It's like building sky castles. It does not exist, yet it was constructed somewhere, even if not real. This won't really make sense, or IT! TOTALLY does.

Would love to see this. Especially Joe hitting Leo's processor rather vice-versa. Would be interesting to see what ideas both of them craft, and the unfoldment of a discussion of a myriad of topics.

@MM1988 I enjoy and enjoyed listening and watching david deida. He is the author of the way of superior men. Which cuts all this alpha beta crap thinking. I never practiced any of this, besides taking the advice and looking for cues. From audiobooks mostly. Or one YouTube Series.

@Jj13 This is what I found during. Googling for it. http://integralacademy.eu/about/ken-wilber In September 2006 JFK University in California and Fielding Institute of the East Coast were the first universities offering an MA level graduate programs on Integral Theory. In addition, Integral Institute continues to offer a wide range of workshops and seminars in the field. https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/california-institute-of-integral-studies-12154 The description looks very "yellow" considering the quadrants from Ken Wilber. The page looks very green from the official university.

1. Meditation 2. Journaling 3. Attending retreats 4. Going abroad to China for half a year 5. Going to uni/college

@universe I like it that you name the obvious! I was still a bit confused though. I want to visualize positive emotions, or scenery, change behaviors and use that as an aid, to be more effective and affective in the outside world.

@kieranperez For limiting believes I tired the exercise from Leo and also from one of his books from the booklist, which were a major game changer for me. The most secular approach without reading much from any tradition besides like the bible when I was young and a bit of the bahavagita and the complete Dao de Jing. Is from Shinzen Young, the loving-kindness practice that he teaches and describes, which includes body emotions, for e.g imagining ideals, visualizing positive emotional states and retraining cognition through mantras, also through feeling and thinking. Can be a nice addition to shadow work, retraining behavior or even the nervous system, from what I've watched now from Paul Check on YouTube. I am trying this since I've heard from Ken Wilber that Vipassana blocks the shadow and I wanted to integrate it. I can recommend Shinzens approach to loving-kindness, yet I don't know what more devotion oriented traditions to practice. So, potentially it could be to cognitive, yet in this technique fundamentally you decide. So, you can keep in mind that even cognition influences emotions, yet I am not a pro, so take all of this with a grain of salt. I would definitely try a shadow work technique longer than 3-4 months. Most likely are psychedelics the most effective, but radical way, and it will also depend on the substance.

@kieranperez First of all yes I like the technique a lot, yet because I like writing and I loved journaling at the beginning of my meditation journey/self-actualization journey. Since then it is a valid tool for exercises for PD and just mental health aspects, like constant rumination etc. I used and still use a physical journal. Ken or some other author mentions that it takes some time and one is supposed to observe his behavior, in the description about shadow work. I started in 2017 with shadow work regularly and wrote, like each fking day longer than the recommended time. Because of emotional triggers like for me... intelligence, arrogance, hate, resentment, emotional pain and a lot of situational triggers plagued me. Which brought insight into the emotional state. It clearly helped me describing emotions in a more granular manner + I felt I was integrating a "shadow". Or the unconscious self. I still sometimes wonder that new behaviors and interaction paradigms show up, yet they are small, yet big inside. Also, I found lost identities and tendencies have been unearthed, I feel more healthy in that regard to most people who triggered me for instance. (family members, classmates etc. romantic interests ) I find the 3-2-1 process is a vanilla version of shadow work from what I have a presentiment about what could work more effectively. I really like this technique since I can't afford to go crazy, which I feel breathing practices could make me do. I used to smoke weed and had a heavy emotional body load then and I keep feeling this pain inside my chest solar plexus where I feel my "shadow" or energy lingers and had a couple of breakthroughs now with meditation and the shadow work always made me feel the spot. One is supposed to take in the feelings of what one wrote down, if you are an emotional type, you can use that to your advantage I turned on music and wrote what I felt, also not and wrote what I felt. To the degree where I wanted to cry, cried, or was mad, or surprised at the end, also that I integrate that feeling, identity (persona or alter-ego) so I sit for a couple of seconds not long. After a 10-20min session of figuring out and going through the process, in my opinion, that is fine. I also tried psychedelics (LSD) more than a handful of times and wrote down emotional triggers and insights I had which I could do shadow work about. The psychedelic experiences themselves helped more than the practice that is why I want to try shrooms. This changed me more than shadow work, although shadow work at least the 3-2-1 process changed me gradually over time. I was, for instance, the one who is arrogant and hubristic, wanted to express intelligence (be smart), and anger has decreased, yet I still struggler with this one, also to be expressive or even feminine and masculine. I can see what you mean I felt the same too, yet in the description from Ken he says to watch one's behavior for weeks, days and months to come. So, I stuck with it and I feel a changed definitely, a major changed. Depending on what is major, but behavior and interaction change is sort of major. Integration happens (for me) naturally, you unearthed the belief, emotion, situation, or alter-ego and are free to express it. It is a bit odd to express it, for instance, a new persona. But some are just fun. TBH I am going to be an arrogant prick, but unearthing intelligence and arrogance were madly fun and it is fun, yet it is not TOXIC anymore or at least not that TOXIC anymore. Sometimes it hurts in a pissy sort of feeling. Ken Wilber also mentions Shadow Work never ends in his Audiobook Integral Transformation and some shadow traits are inherently biological. So, cleaning up never ends apparently. BTW: you posted the same post about Wilber as me,(Multiple Intelligence video series last week or so) in case you want to know more about the 3-2-1 process, you can click on integral life on community my username is once3800. I wrote a question about shadow work and received an answer from a lady who has 38 years experience in yoga and now did the 3-2-1 process. For a different take on the issue. I also really enjoy the video series of Dr.Keith and Corey. Here is one about shame I took some notes on the video over one weekend. https://integrallife.com/integral-mindfulness-and-the-evolution-of-shame/ Besides that if the approach is to rational, I would try the breathing techniques like shamanic breathing, I feel I penetrate the core and can't go fully crazy atm. When things are more save yes, I will try it, but for now vanilla version. Testing them for more than 3-4 months, ideally, half a year is a good approach IMO. Others might think otherwise.

@kieranperez I currently use an app that tracks my sleep and when it wakes me up, prompts me to write down my dreams. I try to look for emotional content or strong impressions and incorporate that with shadow work (3-2-1 process from Wilber). I do not have a lot of theoretical background in shadow work and don't dream that much lately. Sometimes I google the dream l had, and search for the meaning in symbols or interactions. http://www.dreammoods.com/ But, this was just done for fun in my past, no real analysis. Not sure dreams happen in REM sleep? That is 20 min long, yet why do we have dreams? I forgot all these questions...

@universe This rather seems to be a very basic tip. I appreciate it, yet from what I've learned from the micro-retreats it is important to imagine one long picture, not multiple sequences building on sequences, so it is one process not multiple chopped versions of an imagination exercise. Also, to imagine that whatever you imagine is happening right now / experienced by you, like Leo mentions in his video how to be funny a comprehensive guide or so. So, yes a flavor of having the thing right now like ultimate compassion works. Yet, I always imagined things in sequences that build on sequences so, it was quite fragmented. I stopped doing that and now imagine only one large process picture. But only for 2 months, so I can't tell how effective it is yet, still this is what I learned during the micro-retreat. Did you ever practice any kind of visualization practice in regards to meditation or the life purpose course?

@Joseph Maynor Where did you find an accountability partner? I asked two friends for some online courses but they declined both.

@Joseph Maynor FreeConferenceCallHD FreeConferenceCall TeamSpeak (Not sure if anyone uses it anymore). Or even WhatsApp. I assume discord is the best version. Note sure if Slack/Evernote etc. has some face to face call or serves the purpose.

A classic

What I use/used Bacopa Lions Mane L-Theanine Iron supplements Vitamin C / E + Magnesium. Vitamin B complex. Small report: I currently don't use bacopa and l-theanine, l-theanine was good but it did not produce the effect I expected. Lion's mane I tested a 20:1 dual extract from whole fruiting bodies, which is the part of the mushroom which is above ground. I found I seller which sells high-quality products and even explains how to test certain products like lions mane with iodine, to test its starch content. The sellers on amazon sometimes seemed dubious I bought one bacopa product which seemed to have a legit brand behind it. They only had a baccoside percentage of 5% which what I read from the studies 25% at least is needed IIRC. I also tested 5-htp but, after reading on the forum Leo recommended and testing it, some people received tinnitus, so I stopped as I heard high pitched tones, which scared the living sh*t out of me. Bacopa weirdly helped with nofap since they reduce testosterone levels, I took bacopa for 4 months. The effects are supposed to kick in after 8-12 weeks. Lion's mane mushrooms worked well my brain fog is mostly gone thanks to meditation though yet this could help someone starting meditation imo and also lions mane helps with studying I can even sometimes hear neurons firing as retarded as this might sound, l-theanine definitely helped while learning and studying also it is supposed to help with sleep taken at higher dosages of 500 mg. I did not test this. I only took it in the morning so, I was alert for classes and studying seemed to have a more mellow quality to it when I took 400 mg with 200mg it was a nice aid. Also, they don't seem to last that long for 3-4 h. They increase alpha brain waves. I made sure to follow the guidelines and not mix nootropics which have a similar effect and are from the same category, for instance, adaptogens. I bought cordycepts which are adaptogens and mixed them with lions mane and bacopa which are both adaptogens IIRC. I did not notice any changes while mixing, yet they seemed to help when taken over a couple of hours to maintain the effects or to prolong them. Vitamin c in the morning helps surprisingly with tiredness for me it also helps with the intake of iron and increases its availability inside the body, so more iron can be absorbed from foods. I notice the effects of iron it in the gym not feeling that worn-out afterward and putting out more energy, I can be more consistent with the routine without feeling weak in between sets. I did a blood test ( a small haemogram ) so, the doctor verified that I am deficient in iron. Mostly because I lived vegetarian and ate tofu and rice, nuts and noodles with pesto or I ate potatoes. Now I changed things up a bit. Questions: Where do you buy nootropics from? Preferred amazon sellers or shops. Which nootropic helped the most for ADHD like symptoms (besides modafinil)? I specifically tested bacopa and lions mane since they are supposed to help with that, modafinil is illegal here. I found a way to buy it, yet it seems tedious. Other great sources for information? Ideally for people living in the EU. This seller has the best information I found so far. Another site was German. https://mindnutrition.com/blog/identify-quality-effective-nootropic-supplement-blends https://mindnutrition.com/blog/medicinal-benefits-of-lions-mane-mushroom-extract

@kieranperez I thought so. Looks too good/juciy to be in a book.

@kieranperez Which book is this from?