hundreth

And yet, everything he said is also true. Which makes it especially toxic. This is amazingly insightful, but shows how hopeless the situation is. At the end of the day neither side will accept a two state solution and this is a war between two people who believe the land is theirs.

I watched that and agree. I wonder how many lives will be lost in the name of Israeli expansionist policies. Yet I also wonder, how many lives will be lost in the name of justice? A quest for revenge and justice can be self destructive. There are many instances in our own lives where we must experience a loss and move on for our own well being. This has happened to me in scorned relationships, business partnerships, etc. If I were to go on a quest of revenge, I would harm myself in the process. Israel will have to face its own karma for its actions. This will likely be in the form of the nation being run by far right extremists, war hawks, and religious fundamentalists who drag down the culture and prosperity of the nation. Watching the video Leo posted about the origins of Zionism was very interesting because it really highlighted just how rooted it is in anti-semitism. This idea that Jews can never assimilate into another nation, and this was adopted and utilized by both Christians and Jews to advance this. In a response to anti-semitism, Herzl commented that "might makes right" - and this is the policy we still adopt to this day.

I think if you followed the chain it was acknowledged both are wrong. Your evolution on this topic has been interesting. A few weeks ago you wrote that Pro Palestinians needed a "smack to the head with a broomstick." Now you've gone past them in your anti Israel fervor.

Oh I agree with you, just saying even if that's the interpretation you take and want to blame it all on Israel it doesn't make it those Jews fault who were living in Iraq and all the other surrounding Arab countries. But of course, it was never that simple.

This may be a cynical viewpoint, but the current status quo is destroying both Israel and the Palestinians. Israel on it's current course is destroying both the Palestinians and their international standing, well being, and future. It will take at least a generation before this reality results in tangible consequences. By that time, Gaza will be unlivable and the West Bank will be further expanded on and hopes for a two state solution will be dead. I actually feel the most practical step now can be to take these billions in aid money, as well as the billions in military funds fighting this war from Israel and the U.S. and give it to the Palestinians as reparations along with a path to placement outside of Israel. Unfortunately this seems like the best of the worst outcomes. Sometimes, it just is that way. My family is from Iraq. They were all kicked out of Iraq and forced to emigrate to Israel. Now you can point fingers and say that's because of Israel, but my family did nothing wrong. All their valuables and money were stolen. They had prosperous businesses and homes in Baghdad, and it is all gone forever. They will never have their homes back. But ok, we move on and start lives elsewhere.

Yes, but more than that there was an agreement between these British Jewish military personnel and the British government to grant them land in Palestine for helping them win WW2. Add to that the historical ties and the fact that much of Palestine really was uninhabited and not developed, it was by far the most sensible place.

They did immigrate and this caused a ton of conflict. The Arabs were against more Jewish immigration. Obviously given everything going on around that time in Europe, Jews felt it was necessary to have a Jewish state to avoid persecution. They were right in a sense, given that a few years after Zionism began the holocaust was started. In fact, Jews were not allowed to emigrate almost anywhere and in very small numbers. Even the United States blocked the immigration of Jews during this time. Why in a terroristic way, you act like these Jews get their jollies off harming others. They had a goal, unfortunately they had to resort to any means necessary to make it happen. Is it right? No. But given the context you can see how European Jews from that era weren't operating with fairness as their primary concern.

That's true, though it feels like the same (Atrocity propaganda) is being done in reverse to Israelis and sometimes Jews in general. It was frustrating seeing how very shortly after Oct 7 the beheaded babies rumor showed up, and then instantly the hostages and real carnage that took place was forgotten in place of shifted goalposts. Meanwhile, actions by the IDF or certain members of Israeli society are cherry picked and used to dehumanize all Israelis as "evil zionists" where any harm to them is justified. You can see it here, where forum members call Oct 7th atrocities "glorious." This can only be a result of the same kind of dehumanization.

Glorious? You are sick man.

He also said: I think he had some ideals but ultimately put his cause first. Given he was European during some of the worst atrocities and wars, I imagine he was under no illusions that the world is fair. Unfortunate, but now we have to reckon with the current reality.

Lol have fun jerking off to this propaganda. Delusional.

Good thing you're so multi dimensional.

It was blurry which side of the fence Leo was on, but it seems more like he's oscillating between extremes depending on which book he's read most recently. Now he's on his satanic zionists grind. This too shall pass

I'm against the invasion of Iran and regime change if you haven't noticed. Just stating realities. I think there are other ways to prevent this from happening.

If you combine all the territories including west bank, gaza, and mainland israel it is close but Jews still eek out a majority now @ 7 million. Decimate who's population? Iran's? Not sure I get this rational plan. I mean I think the most reasonable interpretation is that they want to install new leadership in Iran which will be less likely to nuke or attack Israel. But then, we know what regime change entails. We've seen it play out too many times. I think Iran will eventually have nukes, and there is a chance they would actually use them. If they did, it would be catastrophic for everyone. Israel has many looming issues in the next 50 years. Iran and their pending nuclear capabilities, and more importantly the next generations of youth completely against them. This will eventually lead to the weakening of their military capabilities. What will the landscape look like then? I don't know. The Palestinians are also screwed. They've both dragged each other down.

The last time Jews had a majority in that region is now. It's not a fairytale if it's real. Now we have to live with that reality and find the best path forward instead of continuously litigating the past.

Two things can be true at once. Iran is crazy and the west's strategy might not be rational.

It does seem like only a matter of time until Iran eventually does get nuclear weapons. It seems Netanyahu and some higher up U.S. officials are pushing for regime change in Iran. This is what I think they are banking on. If they can delay nukes until a new regime is in place, it may not be as looming of a threat. Do I think this will work? Not really. We've seen what regime change entails. Rarely does it end well.

Unclear, I'm trying to find out. So far the only source for this is "Military Watch Magazine"... which as it turns out appears to be an Iranian publication. If they did pull it off, it would indeed be a big deal.

I don't know who's plan this is. I know not one Israeli who cares about grabbing land in Jordan / Lebanon.

What exactly is the threat from Israel? Israel has no territorial aims on Lebanon, they never have. The only time Israel becomes involved in Lebanon are when there are groups firing at them from the south of Lebanon. In the past, it was the PLO. Now, it is Hezbollah. How come Jordan and Egypt don't need an anti Israel terrorist group hijacking their borders?

Well, I hope you're right. Because there are many quotes of Palestinian leaders expressing as much.

The issue is that the majority of both Palestinians and Israelis won't accept anything but 100% of the land. How do you solve an issue where either side won't accept any compromise?

Also keep in mind that Hezbollah began firing rockets at Israel on October 8th. One day after the massacre, and before any Israeli response. This is what they signed up for.

There is a side of this we aren't mentioning. Hezbollah hijacked Lebanon. They were considered a necessary evil because of their so called protection capabilities. Now, it is clear they have had their state enlisted in a war for a cause they did not choose. Even more, they have not been protected. This has been a wake up call for many Lebanese, who are already facing many challenges outside of Israel - that it may be time to take their nation back.