Nahm

Whoever tries to keep their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life will preserve it. Imagine that was Horton’s quote... ”If I (Horton) as an apparent “Who” believe, claim, hold, ‘keep’ this life as mine (aka my consciousness), then all experience is through the lens of the separate self, and there is birth, death, survival, fear, doubt, etc, and “ I “ (Horton) have lost truly ‘living’, have lost the entire point of experience and seemingly in feeling ‘lost’ myself / ‘our’ infinite being (Horton?). But when I see and ‘lose’ these delusions, I am eternal ‘life’, aka, what ‘life’ literally actually is. TLDR: Swap ‘life’ w ‘love’. Give you (love) away...and there is only more present. “Be as children”...”gather in My name”, etc.

Some editing & a different perspective just for your consideration...maybe useful, maybe not... This category of your life is not currently resonating. What are some other things you like doing, some other categories you easily love? Something expressive, like any kind of art...or creating of any sort perhaps? My intention is not to make you feel bad, but for you to have unbelievably awesome future trips. I would give some consideration to the doubt expressed there. Technically, you aren’t doubting her, you’re doubting meditation. To assess what meditation is, by confusing it with what someone says it is, would be a most grave path error (imo). You said she helped you a lot but there is a feeling of ‘not being here’. Could it be that not feeling, is contributing to the “feeling not being there”? Similar to the sneaky nature of a belief being that the holder of it thinks it’s true, and therefore can not readily recognize their belief...one can grow so accustomed to suppressing feeling with labels and beliefs in ideas of ‘myself’ that one does not readily know one is doing so. Again, I have your trips & your aim of well being & happiness in mind. If there are some feelings to release, a case could be made that it is easier to do so sober than while tripping. I’d suggest meditation, feeling, and expressing how you feel in activities that you enjoy. I think this would clear some emotion out and make for really beautiful tripping. Down the road, psych’s can help clear out some deeper more nuanced stuff, but there is something to be said for ‘slow & steady wins the race’, as the trips proceed enjoyable, fascinatingly, chalked full of healing & insight - without a rush, expectations, or any objectives. Meditation in a sense is the not-doing something other than relaxing and thus inherently - feeling. There may be some hesitance to feel, and a heavy perspective which is labelling that as feeling. It is highly likely some dynamics of past & family arise via feeling, and understanding & forgiveness as well. Yes. Very wise. That something else might be feeling, because this is already existence, and it is not “yours”, but is you. Notice in the simplest sense, you are existing already, and thus your existence could never be ‘found’. I get what you meant...and hope you get what I mean as well.

This is par for the course on the path. There is emotional misunderstanding which releases from the body and it can indeed be an epic experience. It is relieving, releasing. It is love healing, it is healing love. But - you contextualize it, to be about “you”, and thus create suffering, confusion, and the insomnia for reconciliation. Lost, unproductive, and confusingly angry - are not feeling, but are perspectives. When you believe those thoughts, to the extent you have convinced yourself those are not thoughts (aka perspectives) - you suffer needlessly. When you instead, shift focus to feeling breathing from the stomach, and focus on the here & now of perception, or, seeing & hearing - ‘you give permission’ for the body to continue to release the ways of old. The resolution will not come. The resolution is letting the thoughts & perspectives which feeling (and “sleep”) are telling you to let go, go. There is nothing wrong with you. There is nothing wrong with your life. You are an angel in heaven. ? Make focus & feeling breathing from your stomach your best friend, and you will sleep like a baby. Some perspectives have not served you or your creating for a long while now. Let them burn in the love within. It can take it.

@seeking_brilliance Weeeellllll Nice to see somebody’s actually awake on this thread. (For the cheap seats...just kidding) @Someone here You react as if it had nothing to do with you.

@peachboy Indeed. Reminded me of a light quartet I saw recently. Four guys; violinist, violist, and two cellists. These guys were beyond amazing musicians, they were clearly in love with each other, and knew it. Truly delightful. Did that thingy where you get farklempt, and do that subtle ‘am I the only one in this’ look around, and that was when that the elder lady & I truly saw each other through this ode of time, and her husband began to sing so sweetly, I missed him as well. I saw that she saw this, and heard that she heard him, and it was indeed wishwashy and more tangible than tangible.

@Someone here Even with all the patience and humility you’ve displayed, I feel you ignored my comment by chalking it up to Nahm’s crazy.

I meant, you’re listening to your intuition, rather than people. I meant it more complimentary.

It says.... There’s no you!!!

@zeroISinfinity “When I am with you, we stay up all night. When you’re not here, I can’t go to sleep. Praise God for those two insomnias! And the difference between them.” Rumi I love you!

It is done, because it can’t be.

@zeroISinfinity Out.

Mr. Snuffleupagus normally plays a jem77p, but yesterday it rained.

@RedLine Like a lego house is only legos and not a house, awareness sees awareness.

Between here and .... ...these... ...a thought appeared which is still the present, a book or it’s content...and the story continues or is noticed to be passing by. Couldn’t matter less either way. Another story will always appear, and you never leave. You’re always here.

The trap of I am so aware that I am not aware.

@Dodo ? Nice. I hear ya on being the kids. I’d never be a teacher. Maybe bebe-‘dodo’.

@Mikael89 Yeah. I don’t know either. I guess we each have to come to our own conclusion.

@Uglyroach “Come, come, whoever you are. Wanderer, worshiper, lover of leaving. It doesn’t matter. Ours is not a caravan of despair. come, even if you have broken your vows a thousand times. Come, yet again , come , come.” “Dance, when you’re broken open. Dance, if you’ve torn the bandage off. Dance in the middle of the fighting. Dance in your blood. Dance when you’re perfectly free.” - Rumi @Dodo ‘God’, ‘devil’, and ‘dodo’ are synonymous in a way...as quickly as they’re thought to be, that they aren’t is missed. @Bulgarianspirit

That is really interesting. I’ve found there are actually animals that do commit suicide, but only from a hive mind, or you might say, collective standpoint. For example, there are insects that trigger their own organ failure, and like a caterpillar becomes a butterfly they melt into a substance which aids In the defense of the hive like fly paper. There’s even a parasite that takes over a host’s nervous system and then purposefully gets that animal eaten by it’s prey so it can infect an even bigger host, for the sake of the ‘collective’. Apparently humans are the only animal that can mistake a thought to be an individual self, and perception to be of individual animals. That made me wonder if creation, or, experience, would be better if humans just had hive mind. But honestly, hive mind sounds rather bland & boring. Maybe the ideal situation would be to both experience individually & experience individuals individually, but also have some kind of underlying hive mind bond or something going on too. That made me wonder if maybe the highest intelligence could be that underlying bond, experiencing being individuals, for the sake of the experiencing. If so, some kind of grounding like that would be nice because, I don’t know about you but this place is crazy. Then I wondered about the op and thought what if aliens aren’t visiting per se simply because they don’t want covid, or us eating them too. I am suspicious that the highest intelligence would have the experience, or, creation ‘itself’ in mind. I also suspect there is some sort of ‘underlying bond’ which could be ‘realized‘, and be the experience that is the apparent individuals which seem to have “hive mind”. Then of course I wondered what if aliens have “hive mind”. Again, this place is nuts. These are just some perspectives. Idk.

@Mvrs Ever been there?

‘All ways’ is a thought which points to ‘other ways’ which aren’t ‘there’. (It’s just the thought that the other way is there).

@Vittorio ☺️ Your song btw. Well done.

A ‘frame’ or ‘model’ of two scenarios for the sake of some manor of communication... Scenario one...there is a foundation of meditation and or yoga (or similar practice) ‘resulting’ in ‘no mind’... a “disciplined body mind” in regard to well being (diet, health, etc)... a certain maturity of emotional intelligence & understanding... and a certain trajectory with respect to the relativity between experience and desire, or, momentum.......and then the breakthrough trip. Scenario two is one of those foundational aspects is not in place...... and then the breakthrough trip, while delightful, inevitably seems to recede into an exacerbating of conceptualization of the breakthrough and of awakening. The difference is that of a mind ruminating via attempts to conceptualize infinity (yourself). If you go back and read your breakthrough trip report, you can notice the onset of the conceptualization of yourself via the adherence to perspectives like “enlightened state”, or “enlightenment experience”. This is like saying “myself state”, or “myself experience”. It is fragmenting, partitioning, sectioning, ‘part-ing’, categorizing, etc. Having said that, the simplest way to express this is that the finite mind or intellect has not realized the illusory nature of ‘itself’. “It” has yet to turn upon itself and see there is nothing there. “It” will continue in the direction of conceptualizing through lenses which share the theme of ‘parts’ in many ways, because “it” misses “it” is believing “itself” to be actual, or “a part”. This occurs as the falsity of “conceptual (dual) mapping”, like states vs no states, experience vs no experience, personhood vs no personhood, enlightenment vs not enlightened, woke vs not awake, regression vs “moving forward”, etc, etc, etc. You could categorize all of this as ‘thinking’, and or ‘comparing’, and or ultimately ‘judgement’. In essence, all roads lead to that you are the creator, and you create “reality” by being it. You can know much, all actually, about the ‘how’ of ‘this’, but the how can not be thought, so stop trying. Deep insight such as that is not finite voluntary thinking, which is to say conceptual, as that is all illusory rumination, but rather arises (and ‘stays’) in an empty ‘no mind’ and emptied ‘body’. You are unconditional infinite and formless...yet to experience, there therefore will appear to be conditions, finite things, or form. (“Thoughts”, are just more apparent “things”). Unconditional + more unconditional does not = any experience, infinite can not know finite. I do not know how this advice finds you so to speak, but I would strongly recommend making a dreamboard, and creating the life you want to create, enjoying the experience of ‘doing’ so, and not focusing too much on any expectations of any outcomes. This is all that is really needed. And maybe some of these.

Beautiful. You got yourself right in the feels with that one.

Whatever might be thought to be intelligent, is intelligence (and not even). It’s not that you don’t understand the statement (imo), it’s that there are not examples from human experience.