Nahm

@SQAAD Why does the sun shine? Why does a human think?

@mandyjw What a quote!

@mandyjw I meant for the listener. That’s what was meant by ‘product’, or video / recording, output. You might be taking it like I was talking about the experience of (teaching). ‘Product’ wise, the listener is listening to a conceptualization, and then it’s on the listener to realize the actuality pointed to. With a song, there’s the song. No concept, pointing, nothing to be realized, etc. We can make up purpose and intention any which way, but it’s not inherent.

@mandyjw How so?

No self is actual, it’s not a state. Love isn’t killing you, it’s relinquishing it’s own idea.

@seeking_brilliance Why do I have a feeling the punchline is ‘it’s this’..?

That wasn’t going on in childhood. It’s not actually going on now either. It’s just a self referential thought. It’s a mirage. You - create that thought - by being it. There is no need to believe it. It is you. It is not about you. A thought about what to create is worth more than a million about oneself. You are not creative. That does not define or actually describe you. You are creator creating creation, and you are indescribable and undefinable. Why are you talking about yourself when you could be kicking a soccer ball right now. ? Keep in mind... one could be experiencing the creating of the conceptual, and very much experiencing creativity...but the product or outcome, to another, would be conceptual. In such a case it would behoove you to do as they do, yet not to listen to what they say. An example would be when I make a actuality of being video, it’s conceptual with the hope the concepts conveyed are realized in actuality...but when I create & produce a song, the ‘product’ is not conceptual. Ever notice how few enlightened teachers there are, compared to enlightened musicians? It’s like 1 to 1 million.

In the vein of bringing the ocd to a rest...this one points to the ‘inner world’ of experience. Focusing upon what one has, one is creating having. Focusing upon what one does not have, one is creating not having. You are the creator, and creation is an apparent continuum either way, and there is no experiential difference between having but focusing on not having, and not having and focusing on not having. And this one points to the ‘outer world’ experience... “As it acts in the world” could be said “the appearance of the Tao”. Holding an ice cube for example, one doesn’t necessarily need photomultiplier tubes & an optical microscope to experience the true nature of unconditionality in / as photons.

Maybe forget animals... perhaps the question is why can’t it be determined wether anything of perception is enlightened, said the flashlight.

@Holygrail Could also contemplate, why, without any intervening, are bubbles round. We take stuff like that for granted. But when you blow bubbles, why aren’t they rectangular? How is it that anything can appear round in the first place.

@ardacigin Great work & great share. ??

Might’ve been mentioned, but Disney’s “Soul” is pretty good. Love that they noted the ‘heaven scenes’ were all “illusory & hypothetical”.

@Tim R Not sure why, and sorry @Someone here for the tangent... but reminds me of a trip with a friend who for around thirty minutes kept shifting back & fourth between historical laughter, and then a very expressionless straight face asking (yet again) “yeah, but seriously dude, which one am I?”. I just replied each time, “I’m being honest here man, I don’t know”. Whenever it comes up we refer to it as the “Dude Where’s Myself” trip.

It’s as if the lack of evidence is the evidence that there is no evidence.

Where is the yourself you speak of? Wouldn’t you first need to find it, and then think about wether to force it or not? And what’s this “force” you’re talking about in the first place? Giant magnet under your house? Sup?

@4201 Infinite mind. I feel I’d recognize you anywhere. ? ? ?

Touché.

Great insights. Can the ‘why’ be as dream stuff as ‘the brain’? That’d make you unthinkably brilliant.

@fopylo Such an odd flavor of trolling. Rare.

Sounds like you’re holding others to a standard of selflessness, while you’re defining that there are separate selves. “View themselves”.... or monkey mind / thought attachment to the belief one could actually view oneself. Comparisons are as they appear, thoughts. Wether or not you’re liked, is your thoughts. Seems like it’s other’s thoughts, but it isn’t. What would the thoughts be about if they weren’t dualistic?

@Human Mint A dreamboard.

If consciousness isn’t experiencing self referential thinking, why call it “alien” really. Consciousness alienates itself believing it’s “human”. Without that, just as @AleksM said, meditate, grab a lawn chair, and see for yourself. So to speak of course. It’s not quantum mechanics, just sit and watch.

@Raptorsin7 Sounds like you’re understanding is pretty clear and solid. I agree meditation is the way. I wouldn’t make it one or the other though... as far as meditation or choosing better feeling thoughts, and attitudes like appreciation. But that doesn’t mean you should or need to. Sorry, I could’ve been more clear with “there are no states (as in / or stages)?”. Sometimes the word states and stages are uses as synonyms, but I see you aren’t using them that way. I also get what you’re saying, that there is the experience of stages, and kind of a stage one and stage two. Maybe stage two is post realizing the distinction of states and stages as thoughts, as labels, that can be believed to describe experience (as in perception) or define the self (as in happiness) but don’t, and only obscure.

The pain is the moment of the punch, the suffering is the story about oneself. Maybe listen to feeling applicable to this occasion and apply it to the bigger picture of life, hearing the pain & the suffering, before it’s a roundhouse kick or something. You gotta care more about how you feel, listen at a whisper. Bring the suffering to a rest, by bringing mind to a peaceful rest. Over and over, as needed. One not suffering isn’t too concerned over the occasional pain. All day everyday, the mind starts to wander to a not good feeling place, bring it back to rest. Notice these tendencies to go to bummer town, and breathe and relax. Being aware of these ‘movements’ of mind in these directions, is more than ample. The mind can not do this in the light, only in disregard.

Then focus on the peace full side. Don’t ‘forget about relationships’. Value them.