Nahm

@SQAAD What exactly was so discordant?

@Mjolnir Meditation slows down the labeling process which essentially has been hijacking depth of feeling under the mind’s radar. Think of an actor in a movie expressing feeling based on lines, scenes, & other actors’ roles, and then beginning to realize-feel what they’ve been calling their emotions is actually the infinite screen appearing as the movie, scenes, and actors.

@4201 In case it wasn’t noticed, that was a copy of the op, with a slight change to ‘separate self’ noting identification with thoughts. I hear ya though, identification is identification. ‘The separate self’ really is just the activity of identification wether me, him, her, self, no self, God or a toaster.

Understanding The Immutable Laws is quite helpful imo, for beginning to see all is divinity, and there are ‘workings’ & ‘ways’ which are unseen (‘third eye’ stuff). Specifically The Law of Attraction. This can bring much understanding to why you feel how you feel, and why your life is going as it is. Other than meditation…yoga’s, trips, acceptance, apologies, forgiveness… and this is a list more or less of just a few of the activities & experiences to be had which are known to bloom & rekindle divinity & creativity. Understanding and employing of the emotional scale could be said to be critical, specifically the distinction between self referential thoughts, and emotion experienced. This is discovering divinity by uncovering divinity. Contemplation, as a means of going prior and directly experiencing communion, or communication with being, can be most insightful and most often leads to self-realization, or communication as being. The Ten Of-Herding Pics of Zen are a great path overview.

It’s still on the page. Maybe you have a question, or something specific I could elaborate on…?

@Flowerfaeiry I didn’t say they are not to be consumed by humans.

Might be insightful, and not necessarily nonsense, but there aren’t ‘sorts’ of Truth. The Truth is absolutely unmistakable. There would be no question of validation whatsoever.

@OneIntoOne Animals eat plants. Plants create defenses from an evolutionary standpoint. A deer eats a marijuana plant, and then feels confused, lethargic, maybe a little paranoia. That deer is far less likely to eat that plant again. There might be conflicting factors between the effects of the plant… and focus in contemplating. The body is likely responding to this confusion with adrenaline & accelerated heart beat, or the ‘fight or flight’ response. The “bodymind” is responding as infinite intelligence, but the experience is being interpreted through a lens of a separate self (my mind, I’m going crazy, fear of death, etc) “Is this normal & is this dangerous?” Up to you. There isn’t an objective, absolute or ultimately conclusive “normal” or “danger”. It’s probably a safe bet that in simple terms, you’re just high and can breathe & chillax.

As @cetus once mentioned, the human experienced ‘effects’ of marijuana are of the plants evolutionary defensive mechanism, to confuse and thus discourage potential eaters of the plants. (From Maps & Traps) In regard to the guidance of feeling, the mind’s averting or aversion, or, ‘moving away from’ emotion, or, feeling, is the mind seeking better feeling, by innocently & ignorantly ‘moving away’ from it’s source, from the very substance the thought ‘my mind’ is made of, from the very “feeling” ultimately sought.

When it clicks you gonna be happiness. (Or, self-happiness rather, that which is already the actuality) “What is the ego?” ??? What Is a Self Referential Thought. (That’s not a typo! There is no question mark there!) “What”…. IS… a self referential thought. “Your ego” lol! Freakin adorable.

@roopepa Yes, and thanks!

Per direct experience, thoughts only arise now, and can have the content, or implication of, a past. Check and see, attempt to experience a thought, which does not arise, now.

https://www.actualityofbeing.com/maps … see ‘aversion’ at the bottom. https://youtu.be/h3Qjk9LqDvw … listen to the first song there; hear for the first time. Second song’s pretty on point as well. “I wait for you there, like a stone. I wait for you there, alone.” No mind is not conceptual.

Counterintuitive is meta realization. The ‘bigger picture’ at play if you will. Counterintuitive feels so amazing in fact, that it is realized not to ever have been ‘counter’, but simply intuition which was doubted. The ‘unconscious aspect of yourself’, is quite literally, the repetition of that thought (about a yourself), and the ignorance of how it feels / disregard for the true self, the very feeling-guidance, or simply how you feel placed above wha thoughts believe (about yourself, a past, etc). This is like a dam to an endless ever-flowing river of consciousness. Feeling is the healing. Expression is the way. The acknowledge of the feeling and abiding by it, or, listening to it, is already the healing in & of itself. Note the feeling of relief in the dropping of the narrative of the separate self, and the seeking a resolve or logical answer for it. Expression honors and allows the shadow into the light of awareness. “I struggle with low self esteem” is one thought, repeating, a belief. Via proper meditation, this thought activity comes to rest, settling into the peace and love you actually are, that which is awareness, aware of the thought activity about a separate self. One interpretation is “there is something wrong with me”... and the seeking of the solution. Another interpretation is there is nothing wrong with you, nothing you actually need, already no actual problem, only thought attachment to the thought, belief, that there is ‘a problem’, or, ‘something wrong with me’. Going Prior ... to these self referential thoughts = ‘going home’, ‘returning’, ‘remembering’, awakening, happiness.

@John Paul True culmination of a healthy relationship, that of sharing our being, will do more for clarity, expression, and wakefulness, than any practice or substance. Initially, projection is missed, but suffering ensues, and it is later inspected. One innocently, yet most unfortunately, looks everywhere but oneself. The only actuality of distraction is that of a single thought at a time, which is felt to be out of alignment with that which desire is for traction with or of. If wakefulness is that which is desired, projection is the yet seen, and thus still said to be, ‘distraction’. Put another way, X is what I desire to create, be, have, experience... but Y is the distraction from it. In actuality, in truth, Y is that which is leading you directly to X. Imagine said girlfriend saying to you aloud “I am your distraction”. Would it not in honesty, still be up to you as to wether that is the case?

@Strangeloop Those are one in the same. One never faces the mental activity of another’s judgement, only ‘one’s own’ thought activity, about judgment, and the projection onto, others. When attention is gently removed from the abstractions of thought, and returned to feeling breathing from the stomach, the focus shifts from my problems, relationships, one for which it is hard, one who would stay quiet, one who could or couldn’t, should or should, take responsibility... to actuality. Responsibility is response-ability, and in the non-reactionary conscious response of feeling breathing, that “one” is more clearly a thought. There is not a ‘you’ moving through time. Conscious response is always only ever now, or not now. Presence (you) is never not presence. The true One has no ‘other’, such as responsibilities for example. Happening is happening, the overlay of duality, separation, is only the thoughts, or, thought attachment. The relevance of the practice of meditation on the Path.

@Gesundheit2 Ha! I know right?! Suffering’s hilarious! ?

In recognition “I get lost in my mind” is one thought, return attention to feeling breathing from the stomach. In regard to drowsiness, meditate first thing in the morning after a full night’s sleep.

@nuwu Indeed. So simple in fact, I believe consciousness - is already a duality implied.

@Nick_98 In regard to the self referential thoughts, thoughts about the you trying so hard, focusing, etc, meditation is simply the return of attention to feeling breathing from the stomach. It seems there is an attempt to ‘over power’ the mind, rooted in a misunderstanding about enlightenment, and about meditation, and the path. There isn’t any ‘work’ to the path, or to meditation. It’s deep relaxation. With proper meditation these self referential thoughts naturally cease, and come to a rest. The activity of thought, of ‘thinking about yourself’, is no more. Then it is very clear these thoughts were like clouds in the sky, which were obscuring the true nature, or, the ever present empty sky, (analogous for the happiness that is ‘our’ ever-present infinite being). Wakefulness isn’t an achievement, a place gotten to, a thing acquired or obtained. That is ‘monkey mind’, or, attachment to dualistic thought…. thoughts that there is a (1) you, which is going to get (2) enlightenment. Enlightenment is a word which points to what is already the actuality. This overview / map might be insightful as to the role of a proper practice. These tools, specifically expressive writing, might be useful as to the practicality of expressing and releasing the conditioning as it comes up & out via meditation.

The resolve of ignorance, of the “I at one end” and the “consciousness at the other end” is Meditation, ‘the middle way’. Thoughts arise, “I can meditate, I can build up consciousness, I can have nondual experiences, but in the end I may not experience nonexistence of, I. At first it seems like a question rooted in nonsense - who or what is this “I” spoken of ? Via meditation, the “I” is actually realized to be one single thought at a time, which veils & hijacks the true nature, or truth… which is of course the meditation ‘itself’, the consciousness ‘itself’, the nondual ‘itself’. What is a self referential thought.

Can someone have a very big sophisticated separate self, and at the same time be free from all self-image issues? Conversely, can the separate self be in a state of total no-self and still have major self-image issues? I always had the inclination to demonize the separate self as something bad and unnecessary, due to cultural upbringing. But now after (another ) full deconstruction, things have taken another course and started going full-circle. Lately, I've been discovering the importance and value of the separate self on an experiential level. And what's most shocking to me is that sometimes the separate self seems that the separate self is one of the best ways to fully heal the self-image from all insecurities, and that seems like a prerequisite, contrary to what I always thought. It's like the separate self at a certain point becomes/starts turning into a powerful master that can take ownership of all of one's problems and then solve them. I'm still not completely sure, nor completely clear about this, at least not in the biggest picture possible, so I'm looking for more perspectives to explore. I feel like there's a certain series of insights surfacing for me here, but I'm not quite sure I get it. I mean if someone has a relatively little separate self and a lot of self-image issues, to me that must indicate a miserable life (my parents as a prime example). On the other hand, if someone has a relatively big separate self and not much self-image issues (Leo, I think), that means they're probably quite happy and successful. Most people, in this case, fall in the grey area in between on different lengths of the spectrum. What do you guys think?

@Gianna Sorry, that was a typo. ‘Through the roof’. As in, increases. It can get rough though too. Doesn’t have to be though. Practices, releases, expression, inspection… = more being. More being = more sensitivity. Some previously unnoticed nonsensical thoughts will feel more pronounced, more out of tune, without the busy-mind around anymore. Like one violin in an overly crowded room, vs in a large empty auditorium. More clarity & sensitivity = more subtly discordant thoughts are felt. Like one out of tune violin playing alongside nineteen in tune. It stands out more, do to the now greater harmony. In one interpretation you are inside your thoughts. In another interpretation you’re aware of thoughts. The scary vs just excitement (Happiness-Being-Awareness) difference lies between those two interpretations. Come back to being yourself even more, by letting subtle layers of thought activity go, via realizing they are occurring, and instead just directly feel… aka, meditatively return attention to breathing and grounding in feeling / the body. The interpretation is what feels off, imo, not the content (excitement, said to be the object). It is as if there are four subjects there thought wise. The one actually saying it… the I that feels an I, the I that gets overwhelmed, and the excitement which is said to be other or not me, asserting upon me. Inspect… where is this excitement? Where is it coming from? What is this I which is said to be affected by it? Where is that I? The more ‘either’ is inspected in direct experience, like pointing to it, the more it is seen it’s only transpiring in the thoughts, and thus the more the activity settles, and the even-more-feeling, being, there is, and the more sensitivity there is. Feel expansively, in the body, and then outwardly. Start with an inch all around. When you really feel it, then another inch, & so on. When the bliss is too much, dial it down.

@anderson Awesome, thanks.

@flume ?? “A bird in the hand is worth two pints of bottle fed low fat oat milk and raw, natural honey sourced locally”.