Michael569

Any appeal to ancestral diet is redundant by default in the current day and age. Natural selection always favours the most immediate survival to achieve a state of reproduction over longevity and disease avoidance. This is called hypothesis of antagonistic pleiotropy (the theory is of course way more complicated than that). The genes responsible for the ability to produce offspring even at the cost of decline of longevity and rapid ageing would be favoured by the evolution. Basically whatever the ancient people ate, would have favoured the immediate survival and prevention of death before was one able to mate and reproduce. It was also literally anything that was available at that time. Mostly plants in spring and summer and mostly meat in autumn and winter once foraging would have become impossible. After offspring has been produced, what happened to the previous generation (once offspring achieved the age of self-dependence) was not important. We have now moved past that. Infant mortality is less than 0.5% and most people will live beyond the age of peak reproduction achieving longevity that would not have been possible or achievable thousands of years ago when our ancestors lived. And so whatever they ate at that time is completely irrelevant to our diet today. We have moved past antagonistic pleiotrophy and over generations, the genes favouring longevity has been switched on more and more as we have achieved abundance of resources and food never before available so the body does not have to be in state of perpetual survival anymore. Ofcourse this also means other genes sich as those of more pro-oncogenic states have also been switched on as well as those responsible for aggressive detoxification and cellular proliferation such as NRF2, mTOR, Pi3K and all the other fancy names that are sometimes linked to chronic disease simply because our lifestyle is so so different to what would have been 10,000 years ago, yet another reason why ancestral diets have nothing to do with that we should eat today. Rather than appealing to our ancestry which was driven 100% by short term survival we should take advantage of the research we have today into a variety of food categories that helps us determine which food groups help prevent the most fatal of all diseases (means diseases that kill 8 out of 10 people) which is heart disease, cancer and diabetes. That data we have albeit sometimes inconsistent show that there is a clear indication that mostly plant-based diets with an abundance of fruits, vegetables, legumes and wholegrains are the best diets for chronic disease prevention and all-cause mortality reduction. Whether one decides to include sources of saturated fats (such as meat or eggs) is an individual choice however at very small amounts it appears (at least based on the evidence today) that they do not contribute to negative health outcomes. In small amounts. Once that threshold is crossed , disease risk rises pretty much immediately. Of course this does not take into account alcohol, smoking, toxins, sugar and junk food and trans fats which everybody pretty much agrees on that they are harmful.

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@Ora thought I'd share this debate if you have time to watch. Probably the best debate I've seen on this topic so far.

@Himanshu soz for dragging you back into this old one. If you ever get to read this, could you let me know how (in practical terms) you found the course helpful? I am looking at his growth program which is like 2.5K. Do you find it helped you properly your business/practice/thing further? In what way? Thanks for any insights you'd be willing to share

I think EMF is one of those topics that it is not as serious as it is commonly being thought but not as unharmful that it should completely be ignored. We should all take some level of precaution, be it earthing ourselves when we can, clean up our diets, exercise and swat to support detoxification, may switch of your wifi at night, don't overuse bloetooth headphones etc. But at the same time we should not become so keen on this that we lose sight of more important things. For example there are still people who believe bacon is healthy or that eating beef steaks every day is healthy or that eating butter is somewhat beneficial for the gut. It is these things that will harm your health hundred times more and faster than EMF for which we only have mechanistic reasoning so far (means no human studies have shown direct harm, not even observational studies). So it is all about wider perspective. The anxiety of thinking one is being bombarded by EMF can cause more damage than the EMF itself. There is also the risk of becoming vulnerable to snake oil salesmen offering tinfoil hats and other "protective solutions" as well as supplements that are supposed to deter radiation (again based on mechanistic speculation and no human data) that serves them but not necessarily the user....just saying. EMF is probably something to be somewhat concerned about going forward but there ar more immediate pressing things such as what we eat, the way we piss and shit on our environment and all the toxic garbage we are being exposed to discussed as premium cosmetics, sports products, dodgy protein powders and all sorts of other "goodies".

I think it will. Like I said, at least you'll have a name. The thing you'll up against will now be somewhat labelled and you can now go deep and explore a variety of specialist areas. Whatever condition it is, books have been written by doctors, herbalists, nutritionists, natural healers, energetic healers. You chose what resonates and give it a shot, if it doesn't work move on to something else. No, I get you and agree. Even if you did it is important you do not associated yourself with it. So many times people just became their diagnosis and it becomes part of their identity which renders the disease incurable because they would rip off a part of themselves which (in a somewhat sick way) makes them special. I've seen this many times especially back in my home country which is somewhat stage blue. So even if BPD was diagnosed it is important to realise that it does not mean anything besides the fact that there is some imbalance in the body and with right tools and guidance it can be healed.

Getting a professional diagnosis is a two-aged weapon. On one hand,the aim of the medical is to diagnose, label you inside a box that has a name, known pathophysiology so that they know what chemistry to put you on. Once an individual enters this path it can sometimes be hard to leave it or even believe a cure is possible because this is not what the medical system does. On the other hand, it presented a form of liberty. Now that A diagnosis was passed, one knows what he/she is up against. Suddenly the decades of pain and struggle has a name. It has standardised pathophysiology and now a targeted cure can be sought, research can be read, books can be acquired, experts consulted. Whether this cure is sought medically or through an alternative holistic route or through the combination of the two is a personal preference Most diseases simply represent an imbalance somewhere in the body. Something has entered the innate wisdom of the body and disrupted it. But most diseases can be cured, some easier than other but it is hard to do that without having a name, without having a diagnosis. Because then one is exposed to charlatans, snake oil salesmen and gurus who will try to diagnose without any formal training so that they can sell their own remedies. The greatest power of the medical industry in the treatment of chronic disease is the ability to diagnose with incredible accuracy. They have excellent training and use tests with extremely high specificity and accuracy. Once that is done they can help manage the most acute states (e.g. prevent one killing themselves) however a permanent cure usually has to be sought elsewhere through a more holistic route/.

That's certainly an option as well. Dump them all in a pot with some spices, salt and oil and after some additional cooking you've got an easy soup going on. With the pressure cooker you can get there in 25 minutes.

Get a pressure cooker and cook in bulk. One cooking = 6 meals ahead. The best time saving method I've found so far. And saves on washing dishes a bit as well. All you need then is bunch of glass containers to carry the batch to work and a place to heat it.

@mmKay thanks for response, I gotta say, that's some serious commitment Is this the Frank Tufano thingy? Yeah, possibly. You could test your iron couple times a year and see how you'r getting on. It's a bit more complicated than that in case you were eating large amounts of organs for example but keeping your Zinc levels at a bay helps. It wouldn't protect you from retinol overdose however iron overload would be more concern where organ meats are involved. For example with something like liver, I'd be very careful with going above 25-50 grams a day but I know people like Frank would disagree. But generally from the limited info I have, I'm missing more plant foods & definitely more fibre. The diet seems a bit too animal heavy which takes care of some nutrients but could be excessively pro-inflammatory, starve out some fibre-dependant colonies, take away some energy and mental clarity with that carb avoidance and generally be a bit limiting. Also animal-heavy diet can (based on observational studies) tip you over towards cancer risk in your 50s and I'm not saying this as some sort of vegan propaganda but generally as evidence-based information. Especially beef has been petty unanimously been associated with increased cancer risk across systematic trials and meta-analyses. Of course the quality of it matters. But that's not a criticism of your diet or anything like that, more of an observation based on the above. Take it or leave it We are all on a different journey.

@Superfluo i have to admit i need to dig deeper into literature to be able to answer those questions. From what i know K2 along Vit D is important when D is being taken for bone health and osteoporosis prevention/reduction. I don't think it is necessary to take K2 for maintenance since it is super easy to get from diet but i might be wrong on this.

Looks good. Yeah, try 3 months then check again. You can always order one of those skin prick tests at home if you wanna know if the value is increasing after a month or so. The difference is between D3 and D2 and then some D3 is vegan and some is not. Your products looks like a good one. Try using cronometer.com for a week. Create a free account and track 100% of what you eat for a week. Then assess critically and see if you are chronically hitting under RDI for any nutrients. This would be a start. If you hit all 100% and still experience some sort of symptoms then those should be investigated further. I think diet, exercise, sleep and stress management will be of utmost importance here. Put a full focus on that for a month and if nothing changes, a different strategy may be needed or maybe some more tests. Are you restricting/eliminating any particular food groups?

I'd start with 5000 IU for 3 months and then get retested. You want to get into the 70s and even 80s. If 5000 is not enough after 3 months you may consider doing 10,000 for another month and then getting retested again. It seems thyroid results are alright although if you suspect issues in here, thyroid antibodies would be useful. there are no reliable tests for this yet. There is bunch of small mycotoxin tests but nothing comprehensive with any decent evidence available just yet. the problem with most mineral and vitamin tests is that they only show serum (blood) levels. So for example active B12 shows how much of it you have circulating around the blood. It does not show how much you have in tissues. For that you would need either methylmalonic acid or holo-transcobalamin. Both need to be purchased separately. Another example is B6. Serum B6 is unreliable and you would need specialist tests called glutamic-oxaloacetic-transaminase in the erythrocytes (EGOT). This is a specialist tests that needs to be purchased separately but is a good indication of tissue B6. What I'm trying to say is that serum level tests showing minerals and vitamins are...well ...interesting..... but mostly unreliable and mostly useless because they do not show what is happening in tissues. serum cortisol is good if you are at the extreme spectrum of adrenal failure called Addison's Disease or adrenal overdrive called Cushing's Disease. For everything else salivary cortisol test is preferable. This is a functional tests and a doctors don't usually do it because they are mostly interested in the diagnosis of either of the condition above which most people don't have. i'd say it depends on what are you trying to do? What are your symptoms or what is your goal?

This can cause a lot of fatigue in some people. Sometimes low blood pressure could be related to adrenals (or may not) and struggling adrenals could potentially contribute to fatigue, but it may not have anything to do with it, hard to tell without more info. Sounds like a lot of avoidance. I'd probably challenge all those dietary "patterns" and try to create a sorta holistic dietary pattern where no food will be necessarily vilified or eliminated but the diet will be structured around mostly whole foods with some animal foods (unless you have ethical or other restriction) mostly plants but not to a degree that you'll go either vegan or keto or raw or any of that. All those names indicate restrictions. Diet shouldn't be so complex and so restrictive either and the more complexity you'll keep adding (e.g. histamine free, salicylate free, low carb etc) will just take away more and more nutritious foods and energy sources leaving you with a limited plate of options and with that it is super easy to eat under your required caloric limit and get fatigued. Naturally it may all come down to other physiological things going on. From my experience fatigue nearly always comes down to how diet is structured and to a lesser degree to sleep/activity balance.

200 meters is not that close. DO you have other houses in front of you? Do you have lots of trees around? Is the street you live close to the main traffic street in the city? While traffic pollution is certainly a concern nowadays you shouldn't be getting heavy metals from it since the fuel is unleaded. What you may get are volatile organic compounds, PAHs and some of the emissive factors and toxic gases. All of us are exposed to that to a degree. A good way to keep your house clean is to buy a high-quality HEPA filter, something more expensive I'd say. DOn't buy some small cheap garbage, that will fill in half a day. You need something that can filter 24/7. Also, I'd avoid those busy streets on hot sunny days, as counterintuitive as that is, the UV rays react with those VOCs from emissions and create a super toxic ozone. Either that or just wear a mask. There is a more than can be done but the above would be quite significant reduction.

Has anyone bought/completed any of the courses on https://ebenpagantraining.com/ Any thoughts / negative experiences / positive experiences/concerns or any comments at all? Thanks

Awesome thread! Here are a few of my favourite ones Lalaland - the rush through the realisation of what could have been and what is and then the final nod as both main characters acknowledge that this is what it always lead to and that it could not be any other way From 3:10 onwards Vader taunts Luke to master The dark side of the force within and beats Vade 2:00 - Boromir looks at the eyes of the hobits and at this moment a connection is made. He knows he has lost one hobit and he realises the fate of the White city might have been lost because of his mistake. And so he performs his final act of defiance to save at least Merry and Pippin before he departs from the world. At this moment, Boromir embraces death and makes peace with it The Interstellar when you realise each ticking on Miller's planet is 1 day on the Earth not a movie but one of my fav vid game trailers

It's not by design that drugs have undesirable effects, it's just lack of holistic perspective when designing them. A single chemical cannot treat a systemic disease such as rheumatoid arthritis so the best they can do is create a chemical that stops your body from producing something that causes pain or it blocks a docking site or something of that sort. It;s the effect of sticking toilet paper in the coolant of your computer because it is too loud not realising it may destroy the circuitry from the heat. The adverse effects is just other effect of that drug unfortunately not a desired one. But pharmacology by definition is not addressing the disease on the systemic level, it just stops symptoms from occurring or it blocks a chemical that triggers a cascade of processes that would trigger symptoms, it is the greatest weakness of the modern medicine that medicine is unable or unwilling to address because it would require a complete restructualisation of how medicine operates including how medics are educated and trained. It will happen, one day. Perhaps in 100 years medics and naturopaths will be educated under the same institutions and people won't be treated with drugs but through complex lifestyle intervention protocols. Don't get me wrong, sometimes drugs are necessary. They save lives, treat infections and prevent people from killing themselves but outside of emergency cases, they are not as effective as if they were combined with a more holistic therapy Also, for a large portion of the population, this is the only way because, on their level of holistic thinking, they cannot accept any other remedy. Their line of thinking is: PROBLEM -> PILL -> PROBLEM SOLVED -> MORE PROBLEMS -> MORE PILLS -> PROBLEM SOLVED. Once you are indoctrinated into that dogma, everything else seems coo coo.

gotta agree with that.

I looked into this in one of my blog research topics. Feel free to check it out, may give you more info. Just follow my link below and go to "blog" Yes ofcourse. I'd rather eat 5 high quality eggs per week than eat 30 low-quality ones. It is more ethical, more sustainable and probably cleaner. Bu to be frank, at least where I live I see absolutely no difference in taste or looks when buying eggs from a local farm in the national park or buying them in bulk. I generally eat very little eggs (maybe 5 a month or so) but when I do I can't usually tell a difference.

@Ora ah it seems you read my previous comment before I deleted it ANyways since you're not letting this go, challenge accepted. Let's start with Ray Pete's article. These are his sources: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0079683271900383 - this study is from 1971 are you kidding me?. The research has advanced significantly since then. Basically when discussing a topic as dynamic as this you should not ever to studies older than 5-10 years because this is how fast the research changes https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2120529/ - mice study...who cares. Not a human study https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14559071/ - mechanistic reasoning study describing potential mechanisms, not a human staudy. Mechanistic studies are not even at the bottom of hierarchy of evidence https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18990554/ - this is an expert review. While expert review has higher degree of evidence, it is still at the bottom of hierarchy of evidence https://canberra.libguides.com/c.php?g=599346&p=4149721 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23900039/ - in-vitro evidence. This study summed up "mechanistic" knowledge from petri dish studies. These are NOT human studies. Look even what the authors wrote. "On one hand, in vitro studies have clearly demonstrated the links between the pro-inflammatory properties of linoleic acid and metabolic diseases. On the other hand, human studies do not validate these links but we have to keep in mind that an excess of linoleic acid in the diet may increase the total mortality" https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25787691/ - and one more rat study, no human study. Who cares This is not a criticism of Ray's work. Maybe he purposefully excluded the human data but if you're gonna talk about potential outcomes and disease in human lives, you cannot do that based on mechanistic evidence. You need to bring the research form the top of the hierarchy of evidence - systematic studies, meta analyses and interventional studies. These are neither. errrr Ben Greenfield? While I do like this guy because he is kind a cool he is the master of mechanistic studies, theoretical stuff, in-vitro and cherry-picking. He is making millions of dollars selling products with nothing but mechanistic reasoning. Let's break this down thou Ok so French Paradox is an outdated theory that is based on 1950s-1960s. Back then French were eating healthier than they are eatingtoday. If you look at the health of the French population today, it is getting close to British and German...one word awful. DIseases have caught up. Liver cirrhosis is skyrocketing. Otherwise Ben's article is all mechanistic reasoning about NAD+, FAD+, mitochondrial respiration, ROS. All cool stuff but no human data so who cares. He sticks cool pictures in there but those were obtained from in-vitro evidence. Where are forest plots of meta analyses of prospective cohorts? First study - this is a cross sectional study. Not designed to create correlations. Interesting were their findings on saturated fats thou, I have to admit. In addition, we observed an association between frequent consumption of full-fat cheese, cottage cheese, and hard cheese (factor 8), as well as butter and animal fats (factor 14), with lower fT4 levels. All of these foods are rich in saturated fatty acids. Until recently, a recommendation to limit dietary intake of saturated fatty acids was valid, but the available evidence no longer supports limiting the intake of such foods [39,40]. Butter, cheese, and animal fats are no longer considered “unhealthy foods,” and according to our results, they have a positive effect on thyroid function by lowering plasma fT4 level. But most people do not die off high T4, they die of heart disease, this is where we should be looking. The study also highlights protective effects of wholegrian products so it could be that these people in studies also have high consumption of wholegrains and plant foods, we don't know that. Later on they also say "High total energy intake and low intake of polyunsaturated fatty acids have been reported to increase the risk of thyroid cancer, but studies on the impact of a high-GI diet on TH levels are rare" Second article - just a link to the study above animals.....Sorry but with the level of evidence we have on humans you can't keep regressing back to animal studies. This is a cherry picking and distraction. Animal studies are important where there is lack of previous research or where we only have theoretical knowledge. In topic such as saturated fats, animal studies are redundant. and more stuff on animal studies. As a form of response I'll just link this. A summary of some of the larges human trials. https://thenutrivore.blogspot.com/2020/05/saturated-fat-cutting-through-noise.html Notice the quality of his studies. All interventional, highly controlled. This is what you need here. I have not done the research myself as I lack the skills to properly disect all the human evidence, one day I'd love to do that but right now I'm not able to. This is the most researched article I've ever come across on this topic but ofcourse let's not be dogmatic and keep researching. But let's also not keep going back to mechanistic data, in-vitro and lab studies. These are all irrelevant at this point and so saying that "saturated fats are healthy" because a mice study says so is naive at best and dangerous at worst.

@Ora I wrote a huge response addressing different parts of that message but then I deleted it as I realised I'd just be stirring an argument and a long debate which wouldn't help anybody. We both have different sources, both have done our own research and came to many similar but also many different conclusions. I'll just leave it at that. One thing I'll say thou is...unless you have done your own in-depth research into the literature on saturated fats and cholesterol don't be too tempted to make claims such as "saturated fats is healthy and cholesterol is not unhealthy". There is an extreme amount of research that would contradict you on both points but it needs someone with the capacity and background to be able to dissect all those meta analyses and cohort studies for us. Not cherry-pick, anyone can do that. I don't have those abilities and I presume neither have you (no offence). Don't be Eric Berg who thinks he can make a correlation based on 2 individual studies. It ain't that simple.

Typo ? "soap" not *soup" don't you go diving headfirst into chicken broth

@Mada_ a local organic brand called Beauty Kitchen but not sure if they sell overseas.

Choline being turned into trimethylamine-N oxide (TMAO) in the gut & liver could be the theory? I'm inclined to say , "possibly yes" if you kept that up for the next 20 years but all the largest meta-analyses reviewing egg consumption in relation to heart disease and cancer are just too f-ing inconclusive and contradictory so I can't really tell for sure. I'd probably try to cut it down to 1 per day or 2 every other day and replace the other ones with other food alternatives. Personally, I don't think it is a good idea to consume a large number of eggs and I usually advise my clients to keep it to a lower amount (as indicated above). But I think it also depends on what you eat those eggs with. A typical breakfast made of scramled eggs, bacon and white toast bread is a disaster if eaten frequently but scrambled eggs eaten with a huge bowl of vegetable salad and beans and maybe like a high fibre whole grain seeded bread with hummus is a different story and that fibre and all those polyphenols could possibly mitigate some of those harmful elements...at least theoretically. well if there is one thing bodybuilders know shit about it's nutrition They know carbs and proteins and fats. They are masters at macro calculation & manipulation but most of them don't give rats about potential long term consequences of eating 350 grams of protein a day. Maximise protein minimise carbs is the name of the game. depends where those macros are coming from. But if it was chicken & rice and multivitamin capsule, you'd be possibly setting yourself up for cancer