Taavi

You are putting yourself on somekind of masters position in your own mind while you write out imaginary battles like this one : It is hard not to point it out for me.

@Frogfucius I remembered that post because of the explicit language, that is why I looked it up to make a point. Not stalking your entire history. I`m not going to continue this, I already made my point. The topic is about Shane Roberts question about relationships although there is a section for that kind of questions in the forum. @Shane Roberts Self-esteem is definitely something to take in to account when talking about relationships and it would be useful to learn about it. It might be one of the biggest obstacles in your way.

@Frogfucius The thing is that you do not think that you have low self-esteem, you have it. It just doesn`t go away, it`s something that needs a lot of work in order to raise it. I brought that up not to attack you but to draw your attention on the bullshit you have been saying lately on the forum that clearly reflects the low self-esteem.

@Frogfucius It is kinda weird how you make your own point of view ideologicalby claiming that everyone doesn`t get reality as you do and are just slapping labels on everything. You think you are enlightened and get all of lifes mysteries, great. Maybe stop and consider your own bullshit once in a while before going on rambling on the forum? Oh I know, there are no mysteries, there is only reality, I am not this, not that, everything just is, labels are bullshit, there is nothing to do, im gonna slap your face with some reality bla-bla-bla. A few months ago you were complaining that you can`t get women and that "I just feel like a steaming pile of dog shit. A failure. I can't maintain what other men can easily. I've tried pickup, I've tried online dating." I`m not attacking you on that, just bringing out that just because you have had an enlightenment experience does not mean that your self-esteem has changed and you are not talking from a low-self esteem point of view. I suggest to read the Six-Pillars Of Self-Esteem by Nathaniel Branden and start working on your self-esteem. I hope you don`t respond like " there is nothing to work on, everything is like it is, bla-bla" You know it. Lies never work.

@Shane Roberts From what are you detached?

Mostly I just retype sentences that I think can be useful to re-read from a book to MS word, or I just highlight them in a book. I haven`t found much use of notes, when something hits me from the book I stop reading and contemplate on it until there is nothing more popping up, then I assume reading. Like from The Six Pillars of Self-Esteem, when something hit me as important and I recognized the experience from my own past I stopped and tried to remember and relive as much as I could to make sense of how it has affected my beliefs and self-image. I find that it is a much more effective way to learn for me. It feels like that I will memorize everything anyway on some level and when the time comes it will pop up from my subconsciousness in a form of insight or a relative thought to some experience. There is very little I can hold consciously at one moment anyway, I rely on my subconscious to make sense of things as it does anyway.

@Frogfucius Desire = something more important then something else due to desiring it = label of importance = hierachy of things = the way you function in this world. Thinking that someone is inferior in the malicious self righteous way is not the same then recognizing that his quality of life is not as enjoyable as it could be. When you see an insane person banging his head against a tree while clearly showing signs of being in agony you can aknowledge the fact that his life is not as good as it could be. Well, in the case of untreatable insanity maybe the quality of his life could not be better but it sure could be for the guy working at 7/11. If the guy from 7/11 would become a mystic and then would be presented a choice of going back to working at 7/11 and forgeting all the knowledge and experience he had gained, do you think he would do that?

@Frogfucius Do you want new experiences, explore the possibilities? Do you want to learn new ways how to conduct yourself? Do you want for your psyche to grow? Do you want to grow? If yes, then there is no end point, there is always something more to thrive towards, new things to learn, new nuances to discern. You know, the "egoic" things. If you do not wish for those things then the 7/11 example is fine. It all comes down to what you want. Stagnation rules out a healthy psyche and a rich life. Because the content of lives is different. A movie is a movie, but watching a pleasurable movie is a lot more enjoyable then watching the grass grow at 144p and no sound for 70 years. Unless you are into that sort of stuff.

@Frogfucius I do not recall him saying that "Frogfucius from the actualized.org forum is a newbie" or anything like that. The things he spoke about are quite generic in this forum. For whatever obvious reason you are making it about yourself.

At what point did he try to call you out? Have you considered, that you might be projecting?

Hey! The more I do consciousness work the less I am motivated to struggle for "success" and self improvement. I have enough money right now to live until april when I will go to work again abroad so I do not need to get a job for money right now. I basically just read books from Leo`s list, go on a date or two a week and the rest of the time I spend contemplating or meditating. I have no motivation to strive for anything besides knowledge and better relationships. I am even quitting college because I think that I can learn better on my own. I am going to a business school and specializing in marketing so my reasoning is that I can learn the subjects much better from books/seminars and real life experience than from doing assignments for school. I also do not see marketing as a thing to concentrate on anymore so going to college to learn it seems pointless. The only plan I really have for the future is to drive through Europe in my van and read books. Basically my question is that should I try to reconcile the growing meaningless of things and the motivation needed for accomplishment? (I am not depressed or anything like that, I actually havent be so centered in all my life). If yes then how? It seems to me that letting go and trying to self actualize does not go together all that well. My plan right now is just to roll with it and learn as much as I can from the books and consciousness work and see what happens. I am 22 years old.

@Leo Gura Thank you for your explanation.

@Leo Gura I will keep trying to discern the nuances of this work. There sure are plenty of them. Not unless some of the stuff in "The Holographic Universe" is correct and I develop PK powers along with enlightenment lol.

@Leo Gura I guess it is another thing that I have to wrap my mind around by doing the work. I have gotten the impression that it does fundamentally change the way a person experiences his or her life. Not trying to nitpick but in your own "The Benefits Of Enlightenment" video you list a lot of ways a persons life should get better after enlightenment. I understand that enlightenment wont give you skills to be better at your career or automatically fix your relationships or things like that but should you kinda not consider your life crappy anymore after enlightenment? Of course you do not need enlightenment to not consider your life crappy, I don`t already. Not saying it is good either. Judging your life`s quality is really an arbitrary thing in my current opinion and has no value in experiencing things as they are. Is it not kinda the whole point of consciousness work to step out of the "mouse chasing cheese it will never get" situation and experience things as they are without the inherent suffering of not accepting things as they are? Explanation for this question would be great because it seems that my impression of enlightenment and consciousness work differs from yours. I am just trying to understand what is going on.

@Leo Gura I am not specifically trying to doubt life purpose or other positive values, it kinda comes with doubting everything else. When there is doubt it is not like I can or want to ignore it and say that "I will put it on hold while I doubt other more toxic things". Whatever comes under question I question it. Same goes to anything else, including much more toxic thought patterns, negative emotions and so on. I just try to not make a story out of it for myself, what is right to question and what is not. While so many teachings point to letting go of everything and accept what is to arrive at the truth it does seem contradictory to focus on getting more and immerse yourself in something that requires a lot of focus and character building. It seems to be like trying to demolish a house by understanding it completely but while doing so you deliberately build new parts on top of it to be practical and get a better house. Demolishing a house and building a better one at the same time seems to be contradictory if your goal is to arrive at a place where there is no house.

@Bob84 I get the feeling that we are not really on the same page. I am talking about the mechanics of how I get motivated. Fantasising about sex would get me motivated to seek out sex and the fantasy would occur because of a physiological and emotional need. The end result would be that I will have sex at some point. If we draw a comparison to let`s say life purpose then I would not have a fantasy about it spontaneously and if i did it would not be strong enough to keep me motivated without me consciously working on it. The contradiction is that letting go of beliefs also includes letting go of the beliefs that support the notion, that I should consciously work towards a life purpose. It is about how motivation works not over right or wrong.

@Leo Gura Thank you for the input. It is quite challenging for me to relate to mainstream society right now considering the difference of interests. Rolling with it, learning as much as I can while keeping my eyes open for opportunities seems to be the best strategy for now.

@Bob84 If there is no motivation to do something then I do not do it unless it is a physiological need. Without believing that something is worthwhile doing there is no motivation. Letting go of beliefs includes letting go of the frameworks in which one thing has enough meaning to spend 10 years concentrating on it. It`s a contradiction concerning practicality not so much of an intellectual matter. For example if you were to aspire to become an electrical engineer and instead of concentrating on that you would spend 10 hours a day cooking. You may say that it is just an intellectual contradiction but in reality you are moving no closer to becoming an electrical engineer. It is not the best example but I hope you undestand my point, that motivation is required to actually do things and that motivation only arises when one believes that something is wothwhile doing. Letting go of beliefs diminishes motivation because nothing holds that much value over anything else. In that sense it is a practical not an intellectual matter.

@Prabhaker My question is about the contradiction that I have between investing thousands of hours of time in to developing a skill in order to become succesful at something( e.g. life purpose ) and letting go of beliefs. It`s not like I can let go of my entire paradigm from which I experience the world and keep a belief that it is necessary to have a life purpose to keep me motivated to work towards it. But I think that having a life purpose is an experience I would like to have. From this comes the contradiction that also makes it hard for me to take the life purpose course seriously enough.

@Pramit Taking on something that requires thousands of hours of work does need to be taken seriously by me because otherwise I will not put in the effort and it will not be completed. This is where the reconciliation comes in to play because the more I let go of my beliefs the less I am able to be serious about things. @Emerald Wilkins I think that everything is ego driven because otherwise there is no point to really do anything. You have to give meaning for something for it to have meaning. It`s not about feeling good and being right or wrong for me, I just want reach the truth and that means giving up my beliefs.

Buy his books list. Read the books. Pirate them if you do not have the money. This forum probably wont help you in any meaningful way. In the end you are the one who is responsible for your actions and can know your situation the best. The books help a lot. You get concepts, other peoples experience and surely a lot of laughs. Most important, the more you read and research the better your understanding will become of life as a whole, not just a few subjects. Pump that information and practice in to your brain for a year or two and you can no longer live the way you do now. You would be so aware that it would pain you too much to continue.

I cannot help myself laughing

If someone could anwser that question we would be moving a lot faster

I started college last year when I was 21 to study business management and marketing. When I graduated from high school I went pretty much straight to work abroad and I still do that seasonally. This year I have worked for about 5 months and I can easily live with that money until the next spring. I have no debt. I can spend my time concentrating on the things I want. I also do a little business with garlic in the fall that has given me more business experience and communication skills then any course in college. What I have learned so far is that I can learn more effectively from books and practise on my own then learning by a certain process in college where I have to worry about assignments and courses that I do not really care about or particularly need. I find more value of my college experience in the sense that I moved to a different city and had many new experiences. Would I have gone straight to college? I think not. All the difficulties I had to overcome when I went to work abroad made me grow much faster then I would have in college. At least I think so. It became very clear to me that I and I alone am responsible for my life and that I needed to start developing myself. I also know that I am going to be making my money as an entrepreneur so a paper from college does not really mean all that much to me. So those are my thoughts and experiences. Maybe they help you in some way.

@Feeble Dave How has it gone?