Telepresent

I don't see them as similar. As someone who plays many instruments, who works in the theatre - in interactivity, as riding an playing on people's responses, where you have to learn an entirely new skillset - let me promise you that playing an instrument and playing a group of people, helping them to move from emotion to emotion is a very different thing. And let's not pretend that out of the millions of DJs out there, those that are famous haven't got there for a reason. You're right, it does take talent and inventiveness, even if you don't recognise it. How many clubs do you go to? How many DJs do you see perform live, or listen to mixing on the radio? If you're going to talk about talent and inventiveness, you need to know the medium before you can recognise these things. The Beatles were just another guitar band for people who didn't understand guitar bands, you know. Don't play on your age (and I don't know how old you are, and you don't know how old I am, so saying "I am older" is currently meaningless) to mean that you know more than someone else. We both know that age doesn't equate to knowledge, wisdom, or truth. Describing DJing as betrays the exact point that I made in my point: that you misunderstand the medium. Now, please be careful here to not take offence and believe that I am attacking you. I am not. But there is more to DJing than that, by a very long way. This might not be the case for whatever DJ is on the local radio station. Fine. But don't pretend like you understand it just because you don't appreciate it. And don't you dare discourage someone from something they are passionate about because you don't value it. That is the absolute in judgement. I am really hoping that @Anirban657 comes back here and reads this, because otherwise you know what this thread is? Let's strip it down: A: "I have a passion" B: "Your passion is a complete irrelevance" C: "You passion is complete bullshit because it doesn't tie in with what I define as a talent, instrument, or skill" D: "Actually, the thing you are interested in is a worthwhile pursuit" C: "Bullshit, it's not creative. I'm older and wiser and I know better". So, I don't know. I expect you're going to react angrily and negatively to this and yell at me via cyberspace. Fine. I hope other people who read this see what is going on

Although, of course, the core skill you definitely can practice in your bedroom

I disagree. I'm not a DJ, but it strikes me that the instrument of a DJ is the crowd: riding their emotion, helping to push it to peaks, to drop it to calm moments before taking their potential energy and throwing it through the roof... I suppose the difficulty with that is that you can't practice it without doing it, in the same way as any instrument, but that you can't practice it in your bedroom

I find that it is important to consider what you are needy of. We tend to talk of 'neediness', or 'helplessness', or 'strength', or 'power', or 'trust', or 'fear', or 'closeness', or 'love', or whatever else, as though they are OBJECTIVE things. Like they have a substantial existence outside of circumstance. They aren't and they don't. So the first thing you need to do is ask "in what place and in what way am I needy?" Now, the answer may well feel like "in every place and in every way". And that's ok. You're already exploring and asking which means you suspect it doesn't have to be every place and every way, so keep doing that. I'd recommend writing dialogues to yourself exploring what you think neediness means, while at the same time discovering videos, books, articles, blogs, vlogs, audiobooks, TED talks, etc., which are based around this and related issues; such as shame, or guilt. You ask and as much as anyone might say "the answer is XYZ", the answer is unique to you. If you want to flip a switch and be rid of this feeling, I have bad news for you: that's not how it works. And I'm writing this as someone who is in the midst of a breakdown and writing this as a way of avoiding confronting my own problems (and grinning like an idiot as I confess that). There is no correct route, path, or technique. Only you know. You feel it. You know what is right for now, but if I can offer some advice I would say save everything, because sometimes in places like this you encounter something which you are not ready for, but a year later is exactly what you need. Explore what the world has to say, and compare it against yourself

Steven Davis' work was a big catalyst for me breaking through this particular issue. His website offers a free ebook (or audio book), and a five part video workshop. Well worth checking it in my opinion: http://www.butterfliesfree.com/

Hello all the folks! I hope you're all well. This might sound odd, but... I have a compulsion to post on this forum, yet don't have anything specific to talk about. I'm trusting the impulse to write here, but don't have any particular questions or discussions I want to raise. So come say hello, and whatever arises arises

Yes! Absolutely! Use it to your advantage and joy! But so long as you are attached to it, you at not using it. IT is using YOU! You can feel this in the emotion. You might be finding this to be an emotional conversation. For me, it's a bit of a side-piece. Is either of those 'wrong'? No. Filter filter filter

@echoes (sorry, my phone: "But isn't the whole point of it that it's always "me" who is manifesting?) Actually, no. That's the whole argument that I'm making. I may have preferences about how my experience pans out. But the actuality basically never has any thing to do with my personal preference. I don't live in the world I think I want. Don't make that mistake. But I live in the world I trust

So let the fuck go of any concept of any ideas of any rules that tell you that this is how the world works and that you need to manifest shit to make you feel ok @Echoes

ah, sorry, my phone posted halfway but the 'feeling' of I, and the consciousness that determines what that feeling of 'I' is (& as a hint, it's nothing you will ever ever encounter from another person) NOT THE SAME THING

The point that I have to suggest is that no, you who thinks you are you, and I, cannot have a straight conversation. No, it is not you who are manifesting. No, it is not you for the negative feelings you have in response to this post. The 'feeling' of

Also (sorry my phone won't let me quote): if you really, really, really, REALLY KNOW that there is no you... why do you care what is manifest?

@Echoes The point is that I don't conclude that there are correct or incorrect desires. Like you suggest, a desire or lack of desire is neither right or wrong. But the fulfilment of that desire is a ALSO neither right or wrong. You are playing that the non-manifestation of your desire is FACTUALLY wrong. I'm suggesting you question that thought. The problem comes down, as other people have suggested, to the idea of WHO or WHAT is selecting your reality. If it is you, then rejoice! There is no need for this thread as you can manifest whatever you want because you are in control and whatever we have to say is codswallop. But if it is NOT you... If the universe is manifesting shit you don't want... Then you have to ask why that is? And a good place to start is what you want to manifest. You can learn an awful lot in the gap between what you want, and what is

Yup. That's the question. Chase it. I'm not saying manifestation of what you don't want is independent of your sense of self. You're making an interpretation there: that manifestation MUST meet your desires (meaning your desires are a: correct, and b: independent of their own manifestation before they are used to manifest a physical experience). The trick is assuming that your personal ideas or desires or needs have anything to do with objective reality. Until you can strip one from the other manifestation cannot make sense

You're assuming here that the manifestation from the field of possibilities has anything to do with YOUR desires. But your desires are the RESULT of the field of possibilities. As is the non-manifestation of them, and your resultant feelings and thoughts about the law of attraction. If there's a field of infinite possibilities, what is choosing which possibilities are manifested? Is it you? Has your experience to this point in any way suggested it is you?

@The Universe I think this depends upon one's definition of enlightenment (as there seem to be many, and everyone thinks theirs is correct - including me). Which of course would suggest that it DOESN'T depend on perspective, ultimately, but we're only going to get perspective based answers. My perspective is no. I'm not really a fan of the word enlightenment. Or any of the terms. I prefer 'what the fuck is actually going on?' And that cannot be a question of paradigm. There meet be an is. Doesn't matter how many paradigms you want to play with; if they're not is, then they are not

Hello again. I don't have a specific reply to what you've written above, but there are a few key words and a feeling that I want to keep up a dialogue with you for now, so that's what I'm doing. I hope that makes sense and doesn't seem rude as a motivation for writing this? I'm playing with / working out how to follow ripples or clues from the universe as to my next action, and right now it's a bit of a blunt instrument! how are you doing?

That's the big 'what if?', isn't it? Although I have to say I'm a little wary of questions like that: I see a lot of people asking questions about what it's like to be enlightened, in lieu of actually going and finding out for themselves. If it's a light little wondering, that's fine, but if it's a distraction from actually sitting down and doing the work... maybe not

Yep, sorry, you're right. Got my figures wrong! That's what I get for going from memorey... Bleh! Still, the takeaway is the same, regardless of the maths: I'm not sure what anyone who is enlightened would be doing on a forum like this. I just... I struggle to understand what purpose they would have here. Thanks for keeping me to account, though - (I'm so worried I'm coming off as patronising here and I really don't mean to: I'm trying to be very honest in my life now hence this ridiculous disclaimer!) - it's good to be called up as a false prophet

@Nahm Absolutely. Our resistance is much more restrictive than we think. For example, we can play a thought experiment, where I say that reality is a bit like the Matrix, some kind of virtual reality environment, blah blah blah, and so long as I keep that as a descriptive tool, that's fine. And now I say, NO, LISTEN, I AM TELLING YOU THAT YOUR REALITY IS FALSE. THAT EVERYTHING YOU BELIEVE IN IS A LIE. THE PEOPLE YOU LOVE DON'T EXIST, THE THINGS YOU DESIRE ARE IMAGINARY, YOU WILL NEVER EVER BE CONTENT BY CHASING HAPPINESS, AND YOU - THE MOST FUNDAMENTAL THING YOU BELIEVE YOURSELF TO BE - IS A TRICK OF PERSPECTIVE... It's not quite so fine, is it? Why not? Emotion. If you honestly look at that statement, and you honestly respond to it, I expect you will have an extremely resistant reaction to it. Because it's obviously bullshit, isn't it? It's obviously bullshit. The world exists, you exist, I exist, you exist as some sort of *whatever* inside the head, and we need to focus on worrying about the practicality of out lives. OBVIOUSLY. You know how people say "you're already enlightened"? And how fucking annoying that is? It's because, in a sense, you are. This is it and it is this and whatever you are experiencing in it is correct. But if it demands you dig... You need to question all of those statements. Do you exist? Does the world exist? If you do, and you're inside the head, where? As thought? Ok, so what is thought? As emotion? Ok, so what is emotion? Dig Dig Dig. And the most important, the MOST important question is what you highlight: resistant thinking. What is it? What is it doing? Why is it doing it? If you dissolve all that is false, then only truth can remain. So there's no real point in pursuing truth: the better thing is to eliminate the false. Remember Sherlock Holmes: once you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains - however improbable - must be the truth. Leap into your resistance. Work out what it is, why it is there, what it is protecting, and don't let it pull you off-task until you know what the fuck is going on. Good luck

@Aditi Also: as you mention sitting still, I'm assuming you're meditating. Are you doing anything else? What do you expect from meditation? (That's not a judgement question - it's pure: what do you think/hope will happen by meditating? We start from the basics)

Not quite. His prediction is that less than one in 100,000 people take to the idea, and one in 100,000 of those people make it. Leaving only around 40-50 truth-realised people on the planet at any given time (I haven't done the maths to check if that adds up, by the way). But that's only his statement. Others say other things. Don't trust either of them, don't worry about it. Focus on you. I can't really see that anyone who's made it would have any interest in a forum like this, unless they have an extremely generous sense to help people they can't be certain really exist to reach a state that's no better or worse than any other (in their perspective) So I doubt anyone here is

I like the perspective Jed McKenna has on this: he makes a point that rather than focussing on an answer, you should focus on the question. Enough time spent with any question, you eventually dissolve it and realise that the question was never really there to begin with. Meaning that the premises were wrong. That's the thing with questions: they're built upon layers and layers and layers of premises, which we have to accept and believe as true and correct and inviolable before we can ask the question. An extreme example: violence. We ask how a loving god/universe can allow violence and suffering. There's a pile of assumptions there: that god/the universe is loving (or loving in the way we think we understand it), that violence and suffering are bad, that suffering exists outside of our emotional perspective, and so on. The problem with trying to answer questions is that you have to make models. You have to model and assume and extrapolate and guess and none of these things are ever quite right. But if you investigate premises... Think of it this way. You are dealing with an incredibly complex mathematical formula. You just can't seem to resolve it. And at the very base of it, where you don't even bother to check, because you know such simple calculations are correct, is 2+2=5. Until you see that, every question you have about the more complex parts of the formula are completely invalid, because they are based on a false premise. Dig.

Cool! As for me... I've been on this forum since not too long after it started, so a little under a year. I was watching Leo's videos before he introduced spirituality into the mix (so more of his self-help side), and it was through his videos that I started investigating spirituality/consciousness. I was actually a little reluctant to join this forum at first for two reasons: 1) I feared it might be a distraction, and 2) I absolutely did not want to be in an environment where Leo, or anyone else, was treated as a 'guru'. Thankfully this isn't the case here - people are generally very critical (in the good, intelligent way) of the content of his videos, and of course share a great deal of other sources as well. In fact, the key drivers in my own journey have been introduced to me by this community in one sense or another, so I have to be grateful for that! Eh... ish. When I was a bit newer to all this, his videos were my primary source of information. As I move onwards, they're now something I check out to see if they have any further pieces to fit into the jigsaw, but it's becoming less and less. I'm very deep into a self-inquiry practice, a foundation of which is that I cannot and do not follow any teachers: I source what they say for clues, but need to investigate and verify things for myself. No outside authority! I've had a couple. I had a definite 'experience' a while ago - I'm not sure what it's best to describe it as, but I became profoundly aware of the emptiness of everything that I was looking at: that there was nothing 'beneath' or 'inside' the things I was seeing, was hearing. They just were, and that was that. I recently had a bit of a major blast to the brain, which has reshaped my perspective on pretty much everything. It's not an 'awakening' - yet - more akin to what Jed McKenna calls 'the First Step', or what Stephen Davis calls 'going into the cocoon': again I'm not sure how to describe it, except that in a shocking, frightening, and absurdly exciting flash, reality made clear and obvious sense. I threw off layers of assumed 'understanding', and found what was underneath. And now there's a lot more stripping away to do, but I'm certain I've taken a major step down a road that leads somewhere I can't quite conceive of at the moment. I don't know how that sounds - it's all a bit new and I haven't developed the language to discuss it yet - but it's a fascinating place to be. Well... that's the question, isn't it? I'm a British guy, early thirties, work in the theatre and teach at university, but recently all of these things have stopped being idenitifiers for me. They're just descriptions of what this body/mind does. My perspective on myself is therefore a little uncertain: a big tangled mass of emotional reactions to the events that happen within, to, and by the perceived body/mind, perhaps? Nice to make your aquaintance! Out of curiosity, what kind of practices do you engage in?

Can you define for us what you mean by suffering?