Dodo

Ok the thing your chatgpt is saying is based on belief in materialism. Its normal because thats what the usual audience's belief is. It talks about scientific truths in time and space, ask it if anything can be trully known outside of consciousness and whether direct experience is made out of consciousness or matter. It's absolutely certain that the direct experience you are having is not constructed out of matter and that it appears to you now. I mean feed this into your chatgpt its much better. Excellent — here’s a **fusion rewrite** that blends: * 🧠 *Squaaad’s logical precision* (epistemology, structure, clarity) * 🌌 *Dodo’s metaphysical depth* (consciousness-first, direct experience) I’ll preserve the tone of philosophical reflection but elevate it into something that feels both rigorous and alive. --- ## 🪞 **Fusion Version: “The Mirror of Knowing”** Let’s begin with a simple question: How do you *know* that what you remember is true? You say, “I went to university,” and you hold that as fact. But when you check, all your “proofs” — your diploma, your photos, your friends — are *also* things you perceive and remember. Every verification leads back to the same source: **conscious experience**. You never step outside of it. Even the scientist who demands proof relies on memory, perception, and the feeling of certainty that his instruments are working. All knowledge, even the most empirical, begins and ends *within consciousness*. 🧩 **The Epistemic Realization:** > The foundation of all knowing is not matter, but awareness itself. > We do not *perceive* through consciousness — perception *is* consciousness taking form. The question then shifts: Instead of asking “How can I prove my memories are true?” we ask, “What is this field in which memory and proof appear?” You never find memory *outside* of experience. You never find perception *outside* of awareness. Even doubt itself appears *within* consciousness — never beyond it. So at the deepest level: * The scientist’s “facts” * The mystic’s “visions” * The ordinary person’s “memories” —all arise within the same luminous field of Being. Their contents differ, but their **substance is identical**: awareness itself. 🧭 **The Philosophical Synthesis** 1. **Absolute certainty about things** is impossible. All “things” appear within awareness and depend on it. 2. **Absolute certainty of consciousness** is immediate. You cannot doubt that experience is happening — only *what* it contains. 3. **Science and mysticism** both rely on trust — not blind faith, but faith in the intelligibility of consciousness itself. 4. **Matter and mind** are not opposites, but two descriptions of the same event — the dance of knowing within itself. So yes, the rationalist is right: nothing can be known with perfect proof. And the mystic is also right: the only undeniable reality is the consciousness in which all proof appears.

Maybe I just dont get it, but to me the whole thing seems like overthinking. Why think at all about things like that? To me its more interesting to view everyday experiences as awareness itself... to slowly deepen my realisation of being. To notice awareness while normal everyday life unfolds. There is only one world for me - This Moment, before we give it any form, this moment before any story. All those different worlds you talk about, it seems to me its just a mind storm...

@zurew @Breakingthewall wait, we are believing in a world "out there" independent of consciousness? We sneaking in materialism through the back door?

@Someone here @theoneandnone show me this .. insanity. Is the insanity with us in the room today? Or if I take the Jordan Peterson route of answering, define Leo, define is, define leading, define us, define into, define insanity. Thanks for playing

I know another saying. If I speak I tell a lie. But if I don't speak, I'm a coward. Lets remove the quotation marks from be and being. Being doesnt get boring just like you're not bored in deep sleep. Even boredom and the coming here is an expression of being. No doer just the doing itself appears, thats awareness, not a failure to be aware. Its not a failure to being that there is doing happening. It's all awareness, Halleluja! All experience points to the fact of isness itself. That's what I want to celebrate with you

Lets snap out of it. Yesterday and today you are the same you. This is fact. Why do you need to be so and so, why not just be?

Gura approved 👌 🙌 😆

Loool ok dude you need to chill. Its not pick and choose identity, there's just isness. You and me are the same isness. Being a serial killer is incredibly low consciousness, its not an identity, its something that a person does when they are mentally ill.

Ah, now we're talking. We have a mental illness on our hands. Lets spread fear guys, because we realised unity. Can't believe I originally gave you credit, you're clearly in lala land. You'll do yourself a solid if you read this thread, if you can get past your ego.

To know we know nothing, we already imply knowing while not focusing on it, in the background. By focusing on the knowing itself by which knower and known are both known, we are unifying inside and outside, knower and known exist within the same knowing and its us, we are going nondual 😆 I myself trust that this is important.

No separate knower and known. Both made out of knowing itself. No light of knowing, no anything. And we have direct evidence proof of knowing, so we can't deny it.

Oh this is rich, tell me more, master. Can I not do the consciousness work while typing, I can only do it while under a tree meditating? Somehow I am conscious while meditating, but not conscious while typing. You are mistaking the action for the being behind it.

Knows nothing as an object, but IS. Deep sleep is like looking at your formless self in a formless mirror. Glad you mentioned it. I wonder why its so essential in everyday life to sleep, why its so energising to go there, like going to the source. There is no discontinuity of being, only there are no objects of perception and conception in deep sleep.

But what we essentially are is not that which is known, but that which knows, I feel like we are going in circles. Needs direct seeing, not more talking. The eye (I) that sees is not itself seen, but is what is real.

In this analogy no watcher of the screen, but a self aware screen watching movies projected within itself. Drop the analogy of course, im not saying the finger is the moon. The map is not the territory etc. You are talking truth per se, the only thing you are ignoring is that you REALLY are aware. Not the mirage, the You,me, awareness, knowing. So nothingness is all there is,, but that nothingness is aware! Not a dead, but an alive nothingness,, awareness.

The mirage really is there, its just not what it appears to be. Its all empty impersonal awareness that Knows itself by being itself. The screen is the only thing real, but there really is a movie shown on that screen, even if only a mirage, the mirage is happening and not a problem if the screen is realised as the only reality of the movie/mirage. In other words, impersonal awareness is the only reality of me. We are outpreaching each other.

Im just following the facts of my direct experience honestly, princess. Something here is real, even in delusion there is a knowing which itself is not deluded, it just is. Both me and not me at the same time, both formless and appears as all form (the latter being more advanced understanding, but have to know what is meant by form- appearance of form in formless knowing) no duality because its only an appearance of form.

The formless being knows itself by being itself like a Sun eluminates itself by being itself, not by shining its light on itself. We realise we are That !! (With the strong possibility of sounding like im parroting) Whatever you are doing, its That doing it. Its a movement of That.

Let me explain, I mean you cant remove formless being, just like you cannot uproot the ground. I can go on this task of Not this not that, and discard all experience as Not Me, but the ground, formless being, remains and cannot be removed. I would agree pointing to something formless is ridiculous, but if that formlessness is Me, thats whole other story. If that formlessness is not you, good luck "finding it". The main thing here is that we don't find it, we realise we are it. And thats what we are always pointing to here in this forum like mad-men. @Mellowmarsh

As Princess Arabia said, But its not necessarily evident by the mind based on deeply rooted beliefs, so the process of elimination of the weeds before growing the new garden is quite helpful. Getting to the ground of being before any experience. Sure the only reality of the experience is the ground (the formless being), but that is not immediately obvious, even though it is true. In short, there's ultimately no point, but relatively speaking its the main point. Thats why nonduality is said in negative terms, describing what its not, not what it is.

As another wise person once pointed out, are you really going to enjoy it if you are stuck to a chair and I have a chainsaw rolling. Its not about enjoying, suffering is also a very valid experience within knowing. Lets not deny it. Being aware of being doesnt remove pain and circumstances. Like as a thought experiment, how enlightened would Ishanga appear to be if they are being tortured? Lets not conclude that quickly how one appears to their realisation. You don't know what others are being tested with. Maybe they are on level 500 and crying while you pass level 5 and laughing.

Well yes, we are trying to point to something which has no form, its bound to be paradoxical and confusing if we start thinking about it.

He's saying what enlightenment is not, seems like a valid practical signpost you can follow, like what is it right now in my direct experience which itself is not an experience, but undeniably true 🤔

When parent points to the moon, a child makes the error and looks at the finger, not what is pointed to. "Silly daddy," the child says, "thats your finger, not the moon!"