What Am I

Anyone have experience combining DMT and 5-MeO-DMT? It seems to me that this combo could have some serious potential for putting someone in a rarefied state. They're both endogenous psychedelics whose natural release are likely involved in advanced states of meditation. I guess the question would be whether they're released in a particular ratio to produce a particular effect. Or perhaps it's all more complicated than I'm imagining. I do have a small amount of personal experience with the combo in a 1:4 ratio with DMT being the higher. The ROA was subcutaneous injection. It's been a while, but if I remember correctly it was ~5mg/20mg, which was a pretty strong experience indeed. I get the feeling the 5meo was overpowering the DMT though, and it mostly became a 5meo trip with slight DMT visuals while lacking the DMT headspace. Whereas 20mg of DMT on its own would produce more of the DMT effects. Would love to hear if anyone else has experimented.

I haven't had an opportunity to try iboga yet, but this is kind of where I'm at with it now as well. Everything I've read indicates it's a complex chemical and not usually easy to work with, even at micro/mini dose amounts. I've had so many brutal and crushing trips at this point, I'm looking for something a little more pleasant. I'll have to revisit later.

I recently experimented using a low dose at a 20:1 ratio. It's shocking to think that the 5meo could have such a strong effect on the overall experience at such a relatively low dose, but it does seem to be the case. I wouldn't say it entirely overrides the DMT, but it's as if it morphs the experience into something different. Maybe even something unique. It's hard to know for sure because the trip was too modest to be significantly impactful, so more experimentation will be needed using a higher dose.

Sure, here's a couple. That top one is a pretty nice DMT guide that I used to reference a lot back in the day. You can find the suggested sublingual harmala dosages in section 1.2. In the Reddit link, the recommendations are a bit higher than what I'd personally enjoy. 20-30mg of sublingual harmine should effectively inhibit MAO, while not overdoing it and causing undesirable side effects. https://forum.dmt-nexus.me/threads/the-essential-dmt-guide.331794/ https://www.reddit.com/r/harmalas/comments/pg7h4b/psychoactive_dose_range_for_harmala_alkaloids/

For sublingual harmalas, the dosage would be much less. 30mg would be considered a medium/high dose. I'm not even sure you could easily fit 120mg of harmalas under your tongue.

Yep, psychedelics are incredible. Sounds like you had a really nice intro. Be careful pushing the dose higher though. As amazing as they can be, a bad trip can be equally powerful and horrific in the opposite direction. The joy that surpasses all understanding which you're expecting could become the terror that surpasses all understanding.

Reminds me of this awesome scene in Doctor Strange.

Linking to another thread where I talked about harmalas, including where to get them. Feel free to ask any additional questions, as I have a decent amount of experience using harmalas. EDIT: I just checked and it would appear the harmalas I linked in the thread are out of stock. Here's some alternatives. Harmine - https://www.harmalas.com/products/harmine-hydrochloride THH - https://www.harmalas.com/products/tetrahydroharmine-thh-freebase

It is interesting. I wonder if it has something to do with the way 5meo has a crazy affinity to 5-HT1A receptors. It really is unique. I'm thinking even 1mg or 0.5mg 5meo per 20mg of DMT. Thankfully that'd be very easy to do with the volumetric dosing inherent to IM/subq injecting.

Right, I've read similar in all my searching, and I can attest to it in my own limited experience. I wonder what would happen if you increased the ratio in favor of DMT though. Maybe there's a point where the experience would 'click' into something more interesting. Here's a trip report from Erowid that caught my attention. This person used a similar ratio to my own, which is a little confusing considering the content of the report. The experience they describe is closer to what I have in mind as a kind of special experience produced by the two substances. https://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=116663

A year or so ago, I tried ~300mg of the substance that the church provides. In my opinion, it did feel different from mushrooms. But it also felt different from 5meo. Assuming it's legitimately a novel molecule (4-HO-5-MeO-DMT), I guess it'd make sense if it felt significantly different from either. It was also much stronger than what you'd expect from 300mg. I'm not insensitive to the skeptical side of the debate either though. I resonate with fellas like @Girzo in his observance of the ridiculous/unprofessional actions of the people involved. And I recognize my subjective experience could be tainted by my own unconscious bias. It'd be nice if we didn't have this uncertainty and could know definitively one way or the other, because the synthesis of psilomethoxin via mushrooms would be really cool and interesting all on its own. It could potentially lead to breakthroughs in novel psychedelic creation.

This turned out to be so accurate. I took a low dose (10mg) of 4-HO-MET, a psych well known for being easy and gentle, and experienced a pretty significant trip. Just like with DMT or mushrooms, my subconscious was laid bare and my usual sense of self became profoundly expanded. Strong euphoria bordering on bliss was passing through my body. It's so cool because you can feel the sensation originating from some kind of higher plane. Was an awesome trip overall, just stronger and way more profound than expected. I have no idea how kids take this stuff and hang out socially lol. Though I wonder if the energetic transformations that people like us in this forum have experienced via 5meo and spiritual practice would have a strong influence on psychedelic trips. It seems pretty likely imo.

Fuck it, I've stayed on the straight and narrow for a long time using classical nature-based psychedelics, but now I'm interested to see if there's anything of value to be found in the RC tryptamine world. On the more recreational side, I've heard 4-HO-MET and 4-HO-MiPT are pretty interesting. For many, the mindfuck aspect is dialed back and the euphoria/visuals are prominent. 5-MeO-MiPT also comes up in a lot of searches as one that people love. AL-LAD is supposed to be similar to LSD but with less of a commitment to having your self torn to shreds. And then there's the famous 4-AcO-DMT, which is believed to be more or less a prodrug for psilocin (4-HO-DMT - mushrooms). Anyone have experience in this world? Ideally I'd prefer if even my recreational trips maintained a certain amount of potential for assisting spiritual growth, but I'm interested in hearing about the purely hedonistic tryptamines as well if they exist.

I wanted to share this awesome older video of Adyashanti and Loch Kelly describing their everyday state of consciousness after extensive spiritual practice and transformation has occurred. I feel like this type of description is not easy to find for whatever reason. It has lined up very well with a bunch of experiences I've had using 5-MeO-DMT, and even bits of my sober experience get the occasional taste of the picture they paint. It's really valuable imo to hear what a matured version of conscious awakening would be like. It sounds liberating indeed.

It's indeed the essential question which we'd probably all like to know the answer. Thanks, happy to be here where I can discuss these things. God knows I don't have many other outlets to do it.

Don't ask me

Awesome post, it seems to me it's always helpful to call out the need for balance in a spiritual approach. I've come to interpret effective spiritual practice as kind of like riding a bike, where the act itself is a flow of instinctual skill that gets uncovered more and more as the practitioner exposes themself to what is, the Self, etc. So a heavy emphasis on direct experience and mostly non-conceptual. On the other hand, there's probably a large amount that can be said intellectually about the spiritual process, just as there's mathematics and physics that could explain how a person doesn't tip over while riding a bike. And it seems to me the intellectual side would especially have its place in spirituality in the form of useful pointers and maps of the experiential territory. Though I can't claim to have any significant skill, so I could be off on the interpretation. Very interesting, I was not aware of this. Perhaps I've unknowingly fallen into this category as well considering my experiential bias.

I realized this thread, acting as a warning based on firsthand experience, could also benefit from a scientific description of the dangers. See below for an excerpt from the FIVE GUIDE, which I linked a few posts ago. 5-MeO-DMT and Serotonin Toxicity Serotonin Toxicity is best understood as a type of poisoning or adverse effect of serotonergic drugs involving excessive intrasynaptic serotonin that results in toxic levels of signaling via the 5HT2A receptor [29]. It is often discussed as Serotonin Syndrome which is less accurate as it’s not a group of symptoms that define a condition and it can occur along a spectrum . Therefore, substances that increase intrasynaptic serotonin such as monoamine oxidase inhibitors (e.g., MAOIs), serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SRIs e.g., SSRIs, SNRIs) as well as serotonin releasing agents (SRAs e.g., MDMA) are most implicated in the development of Serotonin Toxicity [30]. However, the underlying mechanisms of each substance and their abilities to act additively, synergistically, or diminutively in combination require evaluation to understand if the combination is truly high risk for Serotonin Toxicity [9]. Relative to other tryptamine psychedelics, 5-MeO-DMT appears to be a stronger serotonin stimulating substance and may even be able to activate 5HT receptors to a greater extent that serotonin itself, whereas classic tryptamines (LSD, psilocybin, DMT) are only partially able to stimulate serotonin receptors [4, 25]. It is also a full agonist at the 5HT1A receptor. This may explain why it appears Serotonin Toxicity can occur with 5-MeO-DMT (particularly in combination with MAOIs) whereas it has not been reported with LSD, psilocybin, or DMT. Other contributing aspects of 5-MeO-DMT’s pharmacology to risk of Serotonin Toxicity could include its serotonin reuptake inhibition as well as the presence of its active metabolite bufotenine (more probable with toad venom).

True enough, I bet a highly advanced individual fully established as the Self may have a less disjointed experience.

If I were to guess based on a large number of experiences with it, I'd say DMT facilitates an opening via the third eye into a hyperdimensional reality that's in some way related to an afterlife state for humans. That's the intuition I've had in quite a few trips. A more honest answer would be that I simply don't know for sure though lol. One warning I could give if you ever decide to try it is that the DMT experience is probably not what you're expecting. I remember imagining it'd be angels and heavenly realms like in renaissance artwork, but it's more like incomprehensible geometry and mental profundity beyond what someone could make up. The experience is so transcendent, you can only really bring back the memories of your reaction to it rather than memories of the event itself. It's just too different from our normal mode of operation.

I should have made this the thread title lol.

It might be worth mentioning that this occurred years ago when I was more naive and when there just wasn't the same level of detailed information that's available now. The current version of myself with the resources I have may have made a different decision in that scenario. Here's a link to the type of guide I wish I'd had: https://five-meo.education/risks-and-cautions/ If you scroll down on the page, there's both a downloadable and embedded copy of the excellent document "FIVE GUIDE" written by the credentialed and knowledgeable Benjamin Malcolm. Beyond detailing the contraindications, it's an amazing resource for 5-MeO-DMT information in general.

Wow, damn right I'd be interested. I just took a look and it's definitely the type of guidance I'm hoping for. It's always helpful to get poetic and insightful pointers from someone who's way further down the same road that I'm working up the courage to travel. Thanks man. It would appear you and I have similar past experiences, current interests, and future aspirations. For most of your posts, it's as if I typed them myself. Good luck to you soul brother.

I believe thinking can be fine when placed in the proper context and exercised in an appropriate frequency. It's as if the typical person is compulsively thinking 90% of the time and accidentally experiencing silent awareness 10% of the time. Rumor has it this state of affairs leads them to mechanistically tying their sense of self to the thoughts as opposed to the silent awareness. If this ratio could flip and a person could rest as the Self for the majority of the time, and use their mind intentionally while knowing it's just a tool to be wielded, that's probably closer to the natural state. Regarding your question about thoughts being used themselves as a tool towards liberation, I remember there are some traditions that do that. Mahasi Sayadaw of Theravadan Buddhism is one example. They use thought to continually mentally note the present moment, thereby leading them to that same experience of silent awareness beyond thought.

I've found inner body awareness practices to be the most powerful both during and outside of psychedelic trips. More specific than experiencing the feeling of your physical body, it's more so a continuous connection and alignment with the more subtle feeling of your own literal vital energy. I've known about this practice for many years, but it wasn't until I had a bunch of 5meo experiences that I could suddenly feel the real thing even when sober, which was quite a revelation. I'm sure it's related to the kundalini energetic aspects of 5meo. The power of this practice is in its simplicity. It's non-conceptual, experiential, and in the moment. You make the initial intention to feel it, and then from there you simply just continuously feel it by way of awareness rather than mind. When done correctly, it's effortless. Consistency in practice at all times is the key to meaningful transformation and growth. The sensation of the energy is like a guiding light that can instantly point a chaotic and wayward trip in the proper direction towards a state of being and presence. And of course, it has the same effect when sober. Like anything else though, it gets more familiar and easy the more you do it. If you get too lax in your attention and efforts, the full sensation can be difficult to find again for a time. Here's some lines from Eckhart Tolle's book, "Practicing the Power of Now": "To stay present in everyday life, it helps to be deeply rooted within yourself; otherwise, the mind, which has incredible momentum, will drag you along like a wild river. It means to inhabit your body fully. To always have some of your attention in the inner energy field of your body. To feel the body from within, so to speak. Body awareness keeps you present. It anchors you in the Now. The body that you can see and touch cannot take you into Being. But that visible and tangible body is only an outer shell, or rather a limited and distorted perception of a deeper reality. In your natural state of connectedness with Being, this deeper reality can be felt every moment as the invisible inner body, the ani­mating presence within you. So to "inhabit the body" is to feel the body from within, to feel the life inside the body and thereby come to know that you are beyond the outer form. You are cut off from Being as long as your mind takes up all your attention. When this happens - and it happens continuously for most people - you are not in your body. The mind absorbs all your consciousness and transforms it into mind stuff. You cannot stop thinking. To become conscious of Being, you need to reclaim consciousness from the mind. This is one of the most essential tasks on your spiritual journey. It will free vast amounts of consciousness that previously had been trapped in useless and compulsive thinking. A very effective way of doing this is simply to take the focus of your attention away from thinking and direct it into the body, where Being can be felt in the first instance as the invisible energy field that gives life to what you perceive as the physical body."