Ishanga

@Princess Arabia I can agree on Your Breakdown, there are for sure levels to Existence and Manifestation.. One question, where does Perception lye in the sequence, Perception does not only happen via our 5 senses, as ppl have intuitions about things and such "fuzzy" stuffs... As well we have to consider Karma (Residual consequence of all the actions that have taken place in this life and maybe previous lives, action is in 4 areas, Body/Mind/Emotions/Energy, its causes and effect, every action ever happening has a residual effect), and/or Conditioning that happens within this Life via so many ways.. Its quite complex how we created and how we develop in life as time goes by, then there is Awareness, what is that and how does it happen too..

During a satsang with the participants of the "Himalayan Sojourn with Sadhguru," organized by Isha Sacred Walks, Sadhguru responded to a question about the significance of occult temples and their relevance in current times. He also explained why occult temples are oriented towards Devi or the divine feminine, how feminine forms can be brought to life and how one can benefit from them.

There's a problem with this I think, if one has no prior experience sober of an Awakening, or even intellectual knowing of it, then a 5 dmt meo experience may be way too much for them too handle, just my research before I came to this forum and after being here for awhile shows that. I think first one should go as far as they can within a certain time, like a year or two of serious Sadhana, then with that and the experience it gives (for sure a level of Awakening will happen) then they can start to dabble in psychedelics and see what happens, but don't rely on that stuff for absolute results, it won't give You that, its like looking over the fence and seeing Reality for what it is, but there is still that fence in the way, the only thing that will allow You to go over the fence is serious Sadhana for the vast majority of ppl, there are always those freaks out there that won't need it or need much at all!

EVerything is in Levels, that is a FACT! In the Absolute/God level/realm, there is no purpose, no meaning, no anything, its a place of No Thing or Shiva (That which is Not), it only has Potential and Possibility as its basic quality.. From that comes Us, here in basically the opposite sort of Level or Realm, where Duality and Materialism rules, we as Human have the most Potential to recognize this for what it is and Experience beyond it, almost to the top level of the Absolute, to do go all the way we have to Disembody, but we can get very close while embodied and here living on this planet!

What changes is that we are living at a Higher Potential than before, so that is the point of Human Life anyways I think. If You make it a Mental Goal, it will get messed up. All life expressions/forms have this potential naturally within them, we just have the highest potential... We have to see it not in that Absolute POV all the time, we are living in Relative POV most of the time, so we have to deal with it!!

Bruce was heavily influenced by Jiddu Krisnamurti and his anti guru approach to things, but both are needed imo

Yes, and also as well a Mentor or Guru, they know what is needed for the Individual, some need a certain type of Sadhana, while other need little of it. People cannot do what they think they need to do or like to do, they need to do what is needed, the Guru or third person view of things is wise at this point if one wants to go all the way on the Spiritual path, which is Liberation or Moksha!

In Martial Arts, Bruce Lee is a legend, he developed the concept of Jeet Kune Do, the Way of the Intercepting fist. its not a Technique, but more of a Philosophy of Fighting, It basically says that one should be "naturally unnatural", if one is too bound by a particular Style of Martial Art, they become like a Robot, too mechanical, trying to "Look" a certain way, maintain a certain stance, punch or kick in a certain structure or pattern, this will make You too slow, too thought out. The counter point is that if one is too Natural, they do no training at all, their technique will be too unscientific, too inefficient, not connected or proper grounded. So its a blending of the two, one learns the style, masters it, then lets it go, totally drops any idea of it, with the hopes that the Training made their fighting more effective, efficient in the process compared to no training at all.. Bruce Lee at the end of his life was Anti Style, he didn't believe in it at all, but he already went thru the process, if it wasn't for his training in various Styles, he wouldn't have had the skills he had! Sadhana is like this, one doesn't need it, but then one may not be able to get Realization at all, but if one gets too attached to Sadhana then it will stop all Realization as well...

Agreed, but that point has to be reached, Sadhana is about reaching that point of constant witnessing...Until that happens, if its doesn't come naturally, Sadhana is needed!

Yes this is true, in basic essence everything can be a sadhana, but there are Specific Sadhana for certain purposes, for example, one will not have deep Realizations of Truth/Reality/Life without their Energies become more intense and active, doing present moment awareness won't make or help that too happen, it will calm things down, it will allow stress not too happen, bring one to more peace in life, that is a baseline point, peace is baseline, if Your not in peace, forget spiritual path, its like being starving hungry, do not talk or think Spiritual stuff when starving hungry, it won't work.. So for baseline starting point, present moment awareness is great! For more ontop of that, we need Energies to move, clear blockages, and other things have to happen, Specific Sadhana is needed for this...Yoga is the science of Sadhana imo...

Agreed, that is why Non Duality is half right and half wrong, when they say nothing is happeing, nothing is needed, so it a way this sort of teaching is dangerous, anything that is incomplete is dangerous. The complete way is to see the whole reality, we are here with a Body and Mind, and duality/materialism to deal with, and an identification probelm, ego situation, karma and so forth, its not so simple, and not Mind Made up stuffs. its Real.. But we can live above all this stuff, but we need to seek it for most of Us, not all but most.. Seeking is where Sadhana come in, forget Enlightenment if You are not already naturally Peaceful/blissful everyday, every moment!

So someone puts up a video on Utube and they become an authority? Anyone can say anything about anything, why put value or credit too it.. Lets see, Yoga and Hinduism, Tao/Daoism, Buddhism, and many others, have been around for maybe 10,000yrs in some cases (some say Yoga alone is more than 80,000yrs old), and it doesn't work or isn't needed?? Some can realize the Truth/Reality with no effort, why is this? They went thru it before, came into this LIfe this way, that is why, Others are "New Souls", they need Sadhana, Meditation, Yoga, to help them become Peaceful within, then from that Peaceful Experience Realization happens naturally.. One does not need Sadhana, but can they do it without it? Do I need a Car? No, but work is 25kms away one way, it makes my life easier, rather than walking to work, working 9hrs and walking home in the snow.. So I choose to use Sadhana to get to Realization within this lifetime. Choose not to use it, and it may take many lifetimes, that is the choice we are given while here as Humans!

well if Your at that stage You describe in the OP, then there is no Karma to deal with, its basically dissolved, that is what the process towards Enlightenment is about, without Karma there is no You, Me, the Earth, my family, your family, this entire Universe, its our dual level material existence here, set up so that Absolute can experience itself, so karma is there for that IMO, so we come from being Blind to then Seeing, from Untruth to Truth, unRealization to Realization.. Osho was here to help this along, otherwise why Osho..

Spiritual practices, thousands of way to get rid of the binds and mind stuff that get in the way of just BEING, and able to do nothing..

It all comes down to Realization, some like Ramana M are already there, their Karma is that they are born at a higher level of Realization, they don't need much or any Sadhana to Realize it, others are not this way, they need tons of Sadhana to Realize, that is why Sadhana was invented and is their, and why there are many paths, not just one...As Javfly said, there are levels to this stuff! To deny levels is too deny why we are here...

I think Osho was sort of a Jhnana Yogi, Intellectually realized, and he had a attractive way to communicate that appealed to many ppl, plus he was smart, he was Realized for sure, but not like someone like Sadhguru (whom ppl compare the two all the time), Sadhguru is realized on all sorts of levels, he can consecreate a temple, initiate ppl from afar and tell a good joke, he's got all the levels covered..

Agreed, in actuality its really simple, but there is always a but lol. Karma is in play that has to be dealt with, Karma is not the mind playing tricks, its a whole bunch of things, if not dealt with, the simple becomes complex.. Osho and the others, like Sadhguru, SRi M, Eckhart Tolle, they are all here to help us on this not doing anything stuff, getting to that point. If one deny's the Karma, and what has to be dealt with, then it will lead to suffering, to more Mind identification and such.. First we don't even think about Enlightenment, just be at Peace Naturally, no matter what is happening around You, within You, Your at Peace with it, Acceptance is Natural, then things will start to shift and transform, Baby steps, not one big giant step is the way for most ppl...

Yes, but the question is can You do Nothing, no thinking, no wanting, no needing, no desire, no dreaming, no anything other than breathing and heart beating? If not then sadhana is needed, the sadhana is about these things, not about the result, its about bring You back to natural ways of being, not what we are today with all our goals, burning desires, dopamaine hits and such disabilities, we have to get rid of all of that first then we can do nothing..

I was watching some guy, can't remember his name but he's well known from the 70's to 90's, an economist guy, and he was promoting how capitalism has taken more ppl out of poverty than any other economic system, so anything can be logically justified, but in the end it still doesn't work well for the masses, the rich get richer the poor get poorer!!

Compared to Us here in the west anyways, all of Us have ego, and there's plenty of examples of Huge Ego's from every culture, just relating what the person told me, its was more about helping the family and making sure they were all doing well, rather than buying big trucks and trying to look good to others, which seems to be the theme in the west, but of course ppl here too care about their families, different cultures, different sort of ego's...

Yes he's correct. Goals, Purpose, Meaning are future orientation Failure, Bitterness, Anger is past orientation Life is NOW orientation Life is all the really Exists If that is realized then Your there, if not sadhana is needed, sadhana is not about Life but about getting rid of goals and failure and all that other bs we have in our heads.

I remember a few years ago meeting someone at the airport, he asked what I do, I said I teach Kung Fu, he said he goes to China once a year for mths at a time, luv'd it there, the culture that is, he found the ppl helped one another, young generation helped older generations and medical treatment was high quality and cheap, he hated coming back to Canada and seeing ppl spend money on cars and trucks but live in a dump, and that the whole ideology here sucked.. Now I'm not saying China is great, the government and their political system maybe messed up, and from what I have researched their in for some big trouble in the near future, famines and total societal collapse, but the ppl seem okay, less egoic for sure...Americans are nationalistic, think they are the best in the world at everything, not humble generally, and their system (as I wrote earlier) is failing miserably, Canada is in hot pursuit and on the same path, we are just more Sorry about it, lol...

Raise the Level of Your Consciousness/Awareness, be the Light You want to see in the World, live it, then others see it and know its possible, it will take a few generations but maybe we can turn things around!

Well via a "High" state of Consciousness, Actions change, Intentions Change, Sex does not become a way to seek pleasure or attention, but a means to connecting with someone in an intimate and intense physical way that sometimes transcends the physicality, so that is the difference.. Porn is there to make Money (Money is low consciousness), and for the stars to seek attention and make Money (both are low consciousness attributes), so therefore Porn in and of itself is Low consciousness. Sex itself is just there to procreate, that is the most basic of Survival level, which is low low consciousness. We as Humans can have great pleasure from Sex, so when Sex goes into the Mind it become perverse/distorted, which is Low Consciousness.. We all go thru it, all these sorts of stages, as we age we realize what it is and how it relates to Life, or we should anyways, lots do not!

From Ben Stewart the Guy the made the Esoteric Agenda Docu Years ago.. Moloch.. " Are you curious about the hidden forces that shape our modern culture? Moloch refers to a hypothetical entity where individuals are incentivized to act against their own interests for the supposed benefit of the group. This is the world of Moloch. We examine how Moloch has infiltrated areas such as social media, politics, and economics, leading to negative outcomes for all involved. But don't despair! We also discuss practical ways in which individuals can recognize and combat the influence of Moloch in their own lives. It's time to take control and push back against these negative incentives. Join us for a captivating and thought-provoking discussion on Moloch and its impact on our society."- BJS