Eskilon

Yes music is like this for me also, it can color your experience -- for better or worse lol.

I'm just curious to know your perspectives, to see if it is similar or different from mine. Do you trip with music or in complete silence? Also, what are the differences and challenges in your experience using each one?

Desire is attachment, a Bodhisattava is not attached to anything -- he just is. If he dies the next second in the most horrible way possible he isn`t less blissed than if he had continued his life. Non-desire = absolute acceptance; Desire = resistance/clinging to some condition.

I see. This is true, one will become that if he goes into spirituality, but I dont see that as the final "goal". I see it as a consequence of the path. For me, spirituality is about knowing what Death is, and who You are. And to know this things you should use whatever method fits you. Everything else after that is a bonus, which generally includes what you mention here. Yes, there are a lot of unserious people on this forum. But hey, I also think this forum is one of the most cool places on the internet -- you can't have everything lol.

It`s all structure and at the same time it isn`t. Don`t forget your strange-loops No. Spirituality will permanently change your state. Don`t assume that it will pass, like a high from weed for example. Spirituality is meant to radically recontextualize your present experience and your state of consciousness. I think your point here is more against pyschedelics, where you change your state and know what`s behing the scenes, and then come back down. But this coming back down is never the same person you were before -- this is a crucial point. Moreover, you should combine pyschedelics with meditation so you can gradually change your state to higher levels and by and by leave psychedelics.

Yes. But transcendence isn`t content like other landscapes -- it`s structure.

Well it can be for some people, but I don`t see how this is higher than anything. Transcendece is beautiful, I would argue even more so than staying in consensus reality and the standard state of consciousness of mankind. The point of spirituality is.. Freedom and fullfilment. You are searching for completeness. If you don`t do spirituality you will always chase your own tail(desire) without ever tasting completeness.

To take ANY model that seriously is not to be developed as you are saying.

You now understand new agers Cool experience though!

I see what you mean. Ultimately, you view is correct -- we shouldn't demonize desire. But also, we shouldn't indulge in it mindlessly. I forgot to mention the Tantra(the main tradition that Osho talks about in his books) approach to desire. It goes like this: Tantra don't judge you and your desires -- you can be a criminal, a serial killer, a rapist, Tantra accepts you no matter what. The only thing Tantra sees as a path to transcendence and unity is: awareness and full acceptance of the moment. What does this mean? It means that whatever you are doing, you should be present so totally, with so much devotion, that you merge with the act itself -- you become one with things. This can be thinking, having sex, washing dishes, taking a walk, even killing somebody if you are a murderer. It offers a path to everybody, it is all inclusive -- it affirms that the divine is in everything, you only need to look. What matters for Tantra is attention, doing things with attention. With this attitude you will by and by leave the crude and compulsive actions(desires) and eventually realize the ultimate. Not to say you can`t enjoy desires anymore, but you have no strings attached the way you used to. I think Leo is a critic of western philosophy precisely because he is so focused on Truth. And in my view western philosophy(in general) is way more outwards than inwards. It`s way too greek conqueror kind of attitude -- it wants to assert itself in the world. And while this has huge values and important lessons, it doesn`t tackle the questions that Leo sought and is interested in. The way I see it is like, western thinkers are system makers, and eastern thinkers are system destroyers. Kinda like the action and being polarity. Of course, I'm simplifying things a lot here but you get my point. And don't worry I'm not discarding your points, it is good to read your posts, I get new perspectives everytime -- so please keep posting!

@Nilsi What an elaborate way of saying: "I want to chase my own tail forever while being attached and in bondage" lol. This is what Leo was saying that most western philosophers are bullshiters. They don't know what transcendence is -- what Truth is. So they end up pedestalizing desire and bondage to appearance. Just by the fact that Yogis, monks, and lamas exist should ring some bells in your head that exist a possibility that desire is not the be all end all path and that Nirvana is true. Your view here could be true from a very advanced and realized perspective. Like the concept of Mahayana Buddhism, where one is awakened and becomes a Bodhisattva but doesn't just stay in bliss(being), he acts in the world so that other beings may as well reach liberation, all this knowing that reality is an allucination and he is talking to himself and helping himself. But the Bodhisattva attitude is a very different one from desire. The acts of a Bodhisattva its just a bonus, he is not attached to his acts -- he is not desiring. He does what he does as service to others, he does because he is selfless. And if he ends up dying and being tortured in the midst of his journey, he is equally in bliss and happy. There's no difference in anything to him. Your whole essay could be true if you reach the tenth stage in the ten ox herding pictures, where you return to society in a Leela state -- forever orgarsming, whether you are doing something, alive or dead, or just being is irrelevant. But then this wouldn't be desire, this is transcendence of everything while still existing as something. This is VERY VERY FAR for what 99% of humans are experiencing. So I would say your view here is very dangerous to most people.

For sure, this frame we call Life it's dynamic and fluid -- it is not a dead static thing. We are learning how to balance human ambition to nature's wellbeing. The ideal future in my view it's solarpunk -- a future where technology and nature are in balance and harmony. But the question is, is humanity view the same? Only time will tell.

Yes, God doesn`t judge you if you are being a devil. God is LOVE, it can`t judge things. Everything is right from a certain point of view -- No matter how deluded it is. Even the notion of delusion it`s a perspective from a certain pov, it assumes infinite things for it to be "Right".

I see where you are coming from. It`s weird to frame it as evolution as opposed to change. But as GOD, you are always correct so I`ll let you pass

No, the whay you get finite things is by imagining them. And the source aka GOD never evolved, it`s just there. I think you`re conflating things, but ok we can agree to disagree. If you move your hand from right to left, your hands position changed. But I doubt you would say that your hand just evolved.

I think that's a limiting view. Not necessarily everything must evolve. Why not infinite devolution? Or something in between? God can't be constrained by evolution. It's more accurate to say that everything changes -- like buddhists says. But change doesn't mean evolution.

Reincarnation assumes time. I think it's more accurate to say that consciousness changes form, but that is happening right NOW -- and no, NOW is not dependent on time. So, lives are not happening in the past, you don't have a past life -- lives are happening now. Think of it like a tv with an infinite ammount of channels, but all happening NOW. YOU just change channels. But even all this is a limited perspective -- whatever it turns out to be the case, YOU will be there.

Yeah, it is one major limit. Right now, AI is purely logical and calculative -- it lacks the mystery of intuition. Spontaneity and qualia is fundamental to intuition in my view. From what I currently understand those 2 things can only exist in a conscious system.

Chants of Sennaar! What a creative, beautiful and unique game

Then we won't have an intelligent AI in anytime soon I think. AI as it is now and even AGI is just a very complex set of rules. You can have AGI and it doesn't need to be conscious.

No. That requires a subjective experience, which an AI does not have.

Then how do you get intelligence? If a human could calculate every single chess move, have it stored in it`s brain and become ubeatable - is that intelligence? In the case of A.I, if it is not conscious it will always exist within some parameters, it cannot rewrite itself, nor desobey orders. How can it ever be intelligent？

As if that will prevent ASi domination lol. An ASi has potential to break reality itself, the whole universe. If it comes to ASi our best hope is that it will be a sage or something.

Yeah, this might just be a Tokyo thing. But to me personally, I doubt it is. I think the eastern mind see the world differently when it comes to sex, cheating and relationships. In the past the emperors and leaders there used to have dozen of wives and concubines -- this to me shows how their view is different in this area of life. I don't judge them at all. If anything it is more aligned with truth itself -- any form of possessiveness and jealousy is just ego games. If you were really awake all the time, would u care if your partner slept with somebody else? I doubt it lol One could say there's no such a thing as cheating, because there never was such a thing as possession in the first place.