theleelajoker

Yes well said. Interesting that you say "seeking to end it". I wonder how many people feel like that. I remember my ex saying once something like "I feel like I don't belong here". Can be interpreted in many ways, as looking for a place in society, where you live etc but when she said it, I had a feeling that it's more than that. Felt like a metaphysical meaning. Might be my projection, who knows. I sometimes just wonder about how the roles are played. I mean, is it necessary that things are played the way they are now? Pretending, hiding? And when I dig deeper, ask questions, have really open dialogue, there's often a lot of resistance. I mean I get it, I have resistance too and was afraid when approaching dissolution in mediation. But still, if there is a deeper, genuine desire for people (or "it") to end this game, then there are better ways to do that, aren't there? And it's funny because "it" is capable of immediate role switching, dropping the persona like a glove. I have seen it many times and here in the forum there are other stories about it.

Yes that is true (or better seems true??? Haha 😂). And whatever way it is, it's my experience as well that as you say we live with the assumption that " the world works a certain way". Whole societes, life is built on that. Even free will lol. Imagine how law system, prison, sentences would look if we dissolve the ASSUMPTION of free will. So how we treat crimes then? Reality is of paradoxical nature and can be quite confusing, but also quite entertaining... which are maybe the two main functions of it? Seems like it

You mean for example: Person A likes vulnerability in someone ("authentic expression!"), while it's a red flag for Person B ("so weak!") Or Person A likes to take responsibility for both him/her and partner ("cool I'm useful and important"), while Person B would stay away ("I only like independent people")

OK..so if I get it right what you said...everything is fine just the way it is? You are fine with exactly how you are, your life circumstances, your relationship towards women, and you don't want to change anything? No regrets about talking two years with someone asexual? No problem with being too nice or too toxic? So for you, it's just fun to think about it, to write about it, to ruminate about it, to intellectualize it, yes? Then I recommend to take the 3/4 phallic position while your anima violently rides the parts of you that represent your toxic masculintiy in reverse cowgirl. Afterwards hold your head under cold water - must be exactly 6,969 degrees (you guess why) and do a french cunnilingus with a tradition to overcome your racial fears. After this, take your shirt off, stitch yourself a tattoo saying "Jacques Lacan" right above the belly button and the words "not a phallus, but a castration" on the forehead. Walk through the streets of your french village and and shout in alternate order "viva la france", "egalite fraternite liberte" and "Kurwa Kurwa Kurwa" (polish accent please). As a final act, urinate in front of your parents house while they watch and shout "That's for you Daddy! Mommy, are you mine now?" When you finished this, go visit a psycoanalyst close to you and say to him: Please, Mister help me. What's going on with me? I bet 500 french francs and half a baguette that you'll have fun intellectualizing things together with him for the next two years

Imagine there is zero causality and zero correlation, just the illusion of those two. And every "teacher" every person saying "so and so" is simply wrong. Not saying IT IS like that (I could never know) but entertaining this thought make me laugh again

HOLY SHIT I WAS ABOUT TO WRITE THE SAME FUCKING THING! Damn magic, this maya Really, both points. 1. Leo does not seem to me a good source on relationships and women. Great on other topics, but living in isolation, and the derogatory way he talks about others etc he's not a source I would put trust in re these topics 2. Never met anyone that does not have any "red flag", even the happiest couple I know, living together for decades have all kind of "topics". It's being human IMO. Plus: You choose your gf for a reason, and there is always a subconscious matching pattern IME. So meeting and dating quite a few emotionally unstable women in certain periods in my life I was - yeah you guess it - not the most emotionally stabe person myself ahahaha

If some behavior makes you feel bad afterwards, and maybe even the other, what use does it have? Honesty (or call it truth) was a huge value for me most of my life. Was very strong about it, and quite a few people like and appreciate me for this. But I also got into a lot of troubles for that. At some point I realized that it's not so much MY VALUE, but it's a conditioning I got through family because my father ALWAYS PREACHED honesty above all. What he did not say is that he was dishonest as fuck, in public life, towards family and towards himself. He just created a image of honesty but deviated at will from that whenever useful for him. As a kid I was not able to figure out the nuances, what stuck was the simple message of how important honesty is. Seeing this conditioning with my sister also helped seeing it with me, because it's typically harder to recognize your own programming. And becoming aware that it's just a program, you can change and adapt it almost at will. Bottom line IME: It's not absolute "truth" vs. "kindness" It's about an individual mix - every situation, every person, every topic is different How much truth and honesty is constructive? How much can the other take? How much truth does the other WANT? How important is it for me now to be totally honest, how much am I OK with just saving face? One thing is to super gently approach the answer to these questions. There is the example of "Do you think I look fat/in this?" A gentle approach would be to get more information about the person before giving an answer, especially if you don't know the person yet or are unsure of his/her state: Hmm..what's your opinion? How you feel in it? Why do you ask? You have alternatives to wear? Sometimes you can answer directly, oc. Just saying it can be good to check how open the other is to what kind of exchange of information. Check how the relationship is between you and the person. For instance, person is not actually insecure and if you answers "yes you look fat" person will say "Yeah thought so too, I rather take the other jeans my ass looks better in that one". So it's not always insecurity asking this question. I once told a metaphorical story to two people within a short time that illustrated a behavioral pattern in them and could be helpful in moving on with a problem. Same story, same way of telling it. One person was immediately grateful and happy about me telling this story, the other one basically told me to fuck off and that I am an arrogant idiot, treating her like a child. Difference was their personality re openness to information and the respective "relationship credit" Good one sentence summary IMO. Applies to every individual relationship, situation.

That made me laugh

Have you ever felt something one could call love towards another person? Forget about sex, or kissing etc, can be something much more simple. I think of a situation where you walk, sit or lie somewhere with a someone else. You look at him/her, you totally accept this person as he/she is, you wouldn't change a tiny little thing. You know this person is "not perfect", can't do some things, doesn't know some things, is maybe insecure or scared or something else. But it doesn't bother you. Not at all. Quite the opposite. You actually find these traits somehow charming, it's what makes this person unique. You can relate to him/her, you feel a connection and you're not judging. You simply enjoy the presence of this person. You fully embrace and accept him / her exactly how this person is in this moment. If given the chance to be with anyone else, or anywhere else, you would choose to be with this person - right here, right now. You know a situation like this? If yes, you have this feeling towards yourself as well? At least sometimes? If not, how does it feel to give the same experience of acceptance and love to yourself instead of the other person? Or you don't feel like that at all, neither others nor yourself? Curios if and if yes what maybe happens to your micro-macro projection about girls, toxicity, maya, and your anima if that feeling arises towards yourself and others.

Had a GF that took a lot of stuff and nothing really changed. When high, she understood everything but never put it into practice. It was a bit like you say, excuse to take them. For some time, I have seen things like you. But with more experience (life experience + own experience with psychedelics) I say it's too black and white the way you frame it. Read studies on MDMA and mushrooms for instance, they are getting more popular in Europe and show results in different dimensions (trauma, depression, spiritual experiences, but also rewiring of brain) It's not a "solve everything now pill", many many variables play a role, but there is some effect. IME, it can be a powerful part of a system where you work on different levels (body, mind, job, social environment etc). Are there people that use it in just a "rollercoaster way"? For sure. Did psychedelics change my life (tremendously)? For sure. Did I use psychedelics but still some behavioral patterns are unchanged even if I desire otherwise? For sure. Are some mushrooms sessions equally (or even more) effective as therapy for me? For sure. Look for PAT for instance https://www.abct.org/fact-sheets/psychedelic-assisted-therapy/

@AudibleLocket Tough man. Been there, too. No way to sugarcoat it, 4 years is a long time. Lot's of connection and bonding, also with living together. Same time, being emotionally drained from the relationship sucks as well. Can be like a black cloud. Don't know you, her or the situation. But is there any chance to get some distance? Physically, geographically, emotionally etc? Chance to go away for few days, hiking, talking walks, visiting places outside normal routine to connect to yourself? Physical movement to get some tension out of your body, sweating, sauna etc. Might help you to move in your decision making process towards

Maybe will be relevant for others, I reply even if it's old thread. Aligns very well with my experience. Food tastes like 5 star deluxe menu almost every time : ) I agree on the pain part from @Recursoinominado above. The dopamin and caffeine stuff can certainly be useful. The 1h part - well, I went there first time with basically zero meditation experience. Even later, I never was able to sit 1h before without moving. You can easily and quickly pick up this ability duriing the 10 days, so you can relax about that. IME, the majority of old and new students can't do this when starting the reareat (inlcuding myself). IME als integration is key, it's good to have someone to talk about if afterwards.

Get ya. Still wait to see an enlightened person in real life. Until I experience this, enlightenment a myth to me. Happy to be proven wrong : )

Great post IMO. Haven't heard about limerence. Also interesting about the narratives and future, I can recognize myself when a relationship ended. It's a lot about the idea that isn't there anymore, so it's about letting that go and less a about what really is. "Not fall in love with one's potential" - oh yeah happened to me too And finally, the texting stuff you point out. Yes it's true it's really crucial to feel the others presence compared to all digital stuff. @No1Here2c It hurts man. It definitely does. The meta analysis, and the ideas, and the advice here probably won't help now. It's tough to go through this and it's normal that you feel the way you feel. You see the posts of the others, it seems we all have been there at least once. Time, patience, little steps. You'll be fine in the future, I'm very confident of that!

Interesting topic. Will be boring answer, but I think it depends on a lot of context (haha see what I did here? The reference to the mega context thread ) Kind of psychedelic, individual, period of life, other activities, integration, etc. I got vastly different results from different and/or same psychedelic in different times of my life. I agree that the MOST OF the effect of peak experiences of psychedelics seem to fade fast afterwards. Points to the catalyst function. Meditation effects seem to stick more. @UnbornTao Happy that finally someone else than me mentions fasting! It's can be crazy for me re state changes. But it did not "awaken" me like e.g. Vipassana meditation did. I also like that Alan Watts quote, but then it depends on your intention. You can take psychedelics to improve your life quality, connects to emotions, release trauma, regulate your nervous system etc etc. It's not always everything about awakening (which seems to a degree to be an individualized experience anyway)

Ahhh yeah I had the illusion of control as well for some time! And then I got shown that I have no such thing at all Yes please post the video, I am curios. What you say align also with Daniel Schmidt, meditation teacher and producer of "inner worlds, outer worlds " and the "Samadhi series". He say sth like "enlightenment is a happy accident, but with techniques we can make ourselves more accident prone". I am not sure to be honest. Could all be a ng joke, believing in such things. Really don't know. Maybe there is no causality at all? Funny thing, you can't decide what to believe. Experiences shape your believes, and assuming that the type of experiences are out of our control....well, it's a loop I fear I think it's both. Mind and body separation is simplification, but IME it goes hand in hand. Where I agree is that doing more yoga changes my body, changes my experience. I focus more on my body and nervous system recently, and I like the results.

Nice post. I often had similar idea. For instance, I was moderating a meeting or similar. And I notices the group dynamics in the room,subtle patterns in the words and relationship of people. And I always wondered "ok but HOW do I notice this? WHO actually gives me the information to see that person A is feeling this or that person B is saying that but is actually not fully honest etc etc" Or people told me "good job" re some events, and I just responded "yeah but it wasn't me! I actually did nothing" My ego couldn't accept the credit because I felt it wasn't really me achieving anything... @Razard86 you say without state change you cannot get out of own limits - but who changes the state? Again God, isn't it?

@inFlowWhen did you become aware of "it" and started to see yourself in others? For me (my character, whatever, let's keep it simple with "me" and "you") it was this year. But the funny thing is, suddenly other people I have known for a long time start to talk to me about "it" like they have always known and now I'm feel like the stupid one for not seeing it before. Real interesting this reflection-stuff and interconnections. Of course there have always been hints, but it's like reading a book for the first or second time. First time you see the hints, but not the significance, the veiled meaning. Second time reading you're like "ahhh here it's hinted so clearly, now everything connects, so well done" This is interesting because I get along better with people around me. Less time to think about this experience. More interaction, more distraction. And their Karma is a reflection of my Karma, so....feels like a circle.

This is a funny story. I have one, not the same but still interesting. I return from a meditation retreat, I sit in a train. A guy with tattoos, in his 40s, average weight and height, but looking a bit run down comes and sits next to me (many other free places but he choose me). He's drinking a beer and his breath is alcoholic too. After a while, we have a small interaction where he provokes me a bit. Nothing too serious, but he also says something weird, some stuff about him being a former psychologist. And after provoking me further, we make eye contact. I do my best to look directly at him and try to be hard with my gaze, showing strength and not weakness. Again, in a provoking voice he says something like "you don't have the balls for this, you're not neurotic enough". I don't react. I just sit there, not moving, holding eye contact. Honestly don't really know what else to do lol. Suddenly he completely changes, his voice becomes soft, and with real disappointment he says "ohh, I just wanted to spark an interesting conversation!" He sounded like a kid in a situation where his mum told him that he has to stop playing with his favorite toy because kindergarten is over. It's like you said, just "snapping out of his crazy persona". He gets up and leaves. I sit there and don't know what the fuck just happened.

@inFlow Yeah. Hi you! Ahh.. me...uhm..us?

Yeah, my experience resonates. Especially with @Davino replies. For me, it's blocks, or stuck energy, or contractions especially in the stomach area, chest area and in the jaw up to the neck. I also have weird muscle contractions. Psylocibin works best for me to deal with it. Last big trip I cried for 10 minutes like hell and don't know why. Stanislav Grov did interesting work, for instance re the birth experience. It seems to me to be some complex interplay of nervous system, inner energies, cellular storage, muscular tensions, psyche. Call it trauma or past experiences, doesn't matter. There's two ways of looking at it: Shit I want to dissolve this! Sucks I can feel it it bothers me. It's a true challenge for me, for sure It's a privilege to feel that, to be so sensitive. Most people don't feel that much (like me in the past). Both POV are valid in some way, but the second one obviously is more useful re acceptance, the first one more useful to do what has been recommended before: integrate it in your life beyond psycedelics. For me, the best combination is classic ying-yang stuff. Functional training to strengthen the body, to put conscious tension on your body. And then literally yin yoga, I love to do that the days after trips. Breath work etc and infinite other ways of sports and movement that resonate with you. One final note: I recommend to NOT go directly at this blockage points in your body. Especially with the Vipassana technique. I did this mistake and it was overwhelming in my case. Approach it very slowly, indirectly. You mention the heart for instance - if you know where the center of this feeling is, start your attention left and right, up and down from this spot. Circling it centimeter by centimeter, milimeter by millimeter. Don't stay there too long. Inshallah, these spots will slowly easy up and will become comfortable. Can be different for everyone of course so see how it's for you. Better cautious than sorry

Well said. Once in a while, we're lucky enough to find a situation where both feel for each other the way you described. I believe there's something in the experience of a woman (or man) loving you freely just exactly the way you are in all facets of your personality. The feeling of "if I could be anywhere in the world, with anyone, I still would choose to be with you right here right now". You can feel it and it gives a unique and very strong energy. (Yeah yeah sme will now be tempted to say "you can love yourself like that" and it's true, but also different).

I agree on the depth. I agree on a different filter of perception. But go deep enough, what do you actually see? You see others, independent beings? I see nothing but reflections and appearances.

I can see some of the effects you describe. It's not black and white IME. I had meditation retreats I came back from and I was full of life, joy, lightness and couldn't wait to do stuff back in "reality" But I also had times when I came back and had a hard time giving a fuck about life. So, depends on many variables. Phase of life, circumstances, environment, etc

That's a great post IMO. Especially the first sentence. There's stuff I can barely talk about with some friends (awakening stuff, illusion of self, experiences of solipism), so this it's partly outsourced to this forum. Why? Social interaction, exchange, feeling more understood.