theleelajoker

Stumbled over this thread @Adrian colby how is it going?

Yeah, I agree with this. Of course, there is a certain way of doing things with respect. Here I don't think the comparison fits. How about a "I am wondering - what will it be like if I pull the fire alarm? What's your opinion on that?" And if she is already freaked out by introducing the topic without need to make a decision - then the fit certainly is not there for me. Hmmm... not sure we have the same understanding. For me it means I accept the consequence. If I feel like talking about it, it's only a question of HOW to do it (empathically, respect) but not IF I do it. Saying "I don't put this topic on the table because of fear that her reaction is XYZ" is not a option. Yes, self expression changes the emotional environment. 1) Same time, her reaction is her responsibility. If she either doesn't see that, or is not open for a discussion about it, then I already know that it doesn't make sense re relationship. Because if she doesn't take responsibility for her emotional state, then she will look for sth or sme on the outside to project that on. And is this how I want to live my relationship? Nope. 2) Second, what is so bad at having some emotions coming up? Western culture is so programmed to avoid emotions but I don't see the sense in this And I know from experience that tough discussions and questions can be successfully handled in early dating. I had this dynamic with my last gf in the first couple of dates - she asking me many personal questions directly, and I did the same. We thus knew at an early state that re value we are very aligned.

There is sth about your points, clearly. But it's not the whole truth you present it to be. It's the typical argument made by people to promote a certain narrative. You want to feel inferior to women? OK have fun. My personal experience shows me that there are men and women that want to life an "average" life and an "average" partner. Also, it's very one-sided to say only women choose - both have to choose. That's the story you create for yourself. Not the truth. "OMG this guy is so attractive and cool. He's just secure in himself, and he doesn't participate in this rat race about status, money, sixpack and so on. He transcended these ego games and is simply himself, friendly, open, funny and flowing with life. This vibe magically draws me to him..."

I don't think about such things much anymore. Don't really care how women or men act on a general basis. What use does it have for me? The way I see it now it's only strengthening the power of the mind in strategizing, trying to control reality and the outcome of my actions. This is fine when I want to build a bridge or a house, but not for me in dating. I care about the individual men and women in my direct field of awareness, not some generalized "average gender" that doesn't exist. Women in the EU had approximately 1.38. children in 2023. Go and find 1.38 baby clothes and you'll have the perfect gift for the average woman : ) The range is infinite. Yeah, some women took long time before we had sex (weeks, months). Others fucked with me in the toilet of a bar same evening we got to know each other. The best way to deal with anyone is IMO do see them as unique individuals and to act spontaneously off the cuff and in the moment. Finally, regarding your higher libido: 1) people indeed can be different re that 2) I would seriously question how cultural conditioning plays a role in the idea men = higher libido and in your personal sex drive 3) The sex drive looses some of it power over you once you realized that you can partially de-condition biological needs. Fasting is one example that drives that ability to be composed and not a horny monkey (not talking about you, but I have seen a lot of this behavior. Just need to go to bars at 1am )

@MellowmarshNice write up. This makes me feeling better about not knowing / not wanting to know things.

I did not have the same experience, but similar. I have a POV, I read sth, or sme said something - and my POV changed by 180°. Bam, just like this, simply because I liked the information other people gave me. As this continued, I slowly recognized that the content of my mind, my thoughts, my believes are like clothes I can change arbitrarily, just like that. Heinrich Zimmer in "Philosophies of India" writes about the mind as sth that is formless in itself, capable of assuming any form, and transparent when not distorted by ego and desire. How I see it: What is was for me at first - very destabilizing. My persona had suddenly no more foundation of believes. That was tough at the beginning. But you learn to use the mind better after a while If my thoughts can be so...meaningless, what other source I can include to make decisions? Body and awareness became more important, thoughts (mind) less so Incredible freedom: So I can learn to choose and change my thoughts. How much? That's what I am finding out I find more periods of time where I consciously don't think. Allowing space for non-thought. Mediation, yes, but also walking or cleaning my flat. Just doing / being. The key questions is not WHY this is happening IMO. More important for me is "WHAT good brings this new found mental flexibility? "HOW can I use it for me and the benefit of others?" Work with open ended questions, not fixed assumptions. HOW much do I like this boy or girl? HOW do I know I like her/him? HOW can I verify this? HOW can I get more information? WHAT can I do to find out if he/she likes me to? WHAT is the most important thing for me in this moment? WHAT is it, that I feel like doing, right here, right now? Let the mind find the solutions to help you in ...dealing with the mind

Happy for you. I can't really understand why people call one thing "spirituality" and another thing "not spiritual stuff" though. Don't know your experiences, but for me it's a ridiculous statement. It sounds like the front side of the coin saying "I'm the only, the best, just look at me, only I exist" and the back side of the coin smirking and thinking "OK, I let it believe that..for a while" So before you "knew" what god wants (waking up), and now you "know" it's the opposite? I am very careful to believe I know what this is about. Maybe it's not the one or the other, but both? Becoming more conscious, to live life more fully? Or infinite other reasons?

In most cases, that's also how I have experienced it. +1 to the signs. The “if it happens, it happens, if it don’t, it don’t” is certainly useful and just allowing reality to unfold while being relaxed. Yes to the massive pressure. Yes to also that girls might say yes out of guilt. BUT my big argument is: why care so much about what the other does or not does? What's my position? Do I want clarity re if we are fucking other people while dating, or do I want to leave it in the dark? How important is clarity for me? What's my position on this for now (exclusivity, partnership model, polygamy etc) Do I actually know what I want? Or do I want to openly discuss it? "Hey girl, we have been seeing each other for a while. What's your take on exclusivity?" Do I want a girl that says "yes" out of guilt? No. Do I want a girl that feels that as immense pressure instead of a chance to get to know each other, and find out how we want to date? No. Do I want a girl that sees that as clingy, even if it's simply aligned with who I am? No. Do I want a girl that is so insecure that we can't talk openly about stuff? No. My last gf, I had the talk early on and in hindsight, I can see how it put pressure on here. But it's not the thing itself, it was HER creating pressure for herself. I wanted exclusivity, and it felt good, and it felt right. Sometimes I was working with attractive female clients, and knowing that there is that line I won't cross it was much easier for me to work with them without the sexual tensions that sometimes arise. And when I went to parties, clubs I was so much more relaxed then my friends because no matter how hot the women around us - I could save all the thoughts and energy that I otherwise would use for flirting, dating. "if it happens, it happens, if it don’t, it don’t” --> if we work together as a couple, we do. If not, then not. Simply expressing who I am and then seeing what happens. Doesn't mean that you can't be smart about things (have discussions after eating and not before, after sex and not before,wait for a moment where mood is rather calm and you have lot of time do discuss, etc.) But I am not constantly thinking for my gf and thus treating her like a daughter instead of an equal that can handle essential questions about dating.

Wow, that was quite a contrast to the other replies. I like it, brings a new angle into this thread. I had to go and ask AI for some clarification about what you wrote, though This post helped me to better understand how the ego works. I copy-past the AI answers here, maybe helpful for others. The ego is the self-referential system that maintains identity through: 1) narration (“who I am / must become”), 2) comparison (better–worse, worthy–worthless), 3) defense against psychological threat. A core fear (e.g. worthlessness, humiliation) becomes the hidden reference point of identity "The ego is an identity maintained by defense against fear; by resisting and narrating the fear, the ego makes it real and organizes life around avoiding what it cannot allow itself to experience."

@Eterno Yeah, so I don't know what's best for you, but if I had a time machine to go back where I was in a similar phase to what you describe, I would put my focus on: Preparing my body. Yoga, breath work, tai chi, gym, whatever relaxes and strengthens the body to hold that different level of consciousness Focus on maximizing presence. Like hojo said, hope is one thing, it's better to sit with what is and feel it somatically, with maximum curiosity. Where do I feel that thought? How does it feel? If thoughts come up, observe. And ask yourself: is this thought good for me? How I know it's good or not good for me? Practice not knowing. I don't know. And it's Ok to don't know. I don't know the answer to big questions in life, and you don't know what all this means and what will come out of this, and how it will all unfold. In hindsight, I believe now it's was not the new information or state of me or the environment that made it difficult for me back then. It was that I had to CHANGE. I had to give up many ideas and assumptions about life, a lot of my ego identity was tied to it. And thus the struggle, clinging to it, resisting change. I thought of this: if the world and my experience in it would have been as it is now, with this new level of consciousness: If someone told me all this information before on day one of my life, if my experience was like that from the start- would there be a problem?

I suspect you both subconsciously knew/know about the incompatibility and communicated this in subtle ways, verbally and non verbally. So did the idea to end exclusivity come from ONLY you? Or were you maybe picking up hints from her, subtly telling you she somehow wants it to end? And you then did the favor of opening a door to end it? Who knows, but it's a scenario that I have seen before. Only that I did not understand it while it was happening. Yeah, I once dated a girl that also had a rather... let's say volatile lifestyle but she was also great in many ways. A bit crazy is sexy, isn't it? Who needs more people doing all the same boring stuff that everybody is doing 🤣 Re club : nice, zero expectations and then up to the dancefloor and maybe something happens, but if not you had fun dancing.

You can make the point just turned 180°: Mentioning exclusivity early is coming from a man who knows what he wants, and what not. He's showing his values and is authentic from day one. He's leading the way, showing confidence. Showing initiative, and the will to take responsibility. Only men that are insecure don't talk about it. Or, vice versa: "Real men have a feeling for timing, and for the woman at their side. Instead of pushing through with their agenda, they are tactful. Instead of forcing issues, they are relaxed and let the woman introduce certain topics. They are confident and know their value. They are leading the way by being confident enough to let others lead. Only men that are insecure talk about exclusivity first" Or: Exclusivity is for weak men. You don't talk about it. You don't ask for it. You just do what you want. Clever tactic: Because the girl will be so impressed that she only fucks you, making it exclusive one person only" Or: "Exclusivity is for weak men. Tell your GF that she can fuck anyone anytime and truly mean it." Or: "Exclusivity is for weak and insecure men. Tell your GF she can fuck anyone and then watch her doing it" All these strategies are mind fuck IMO. If it fits, it fits. If not, then not. There's no "best" or "right" way.

Idea: you intuitively knew that the fit was not good, neither for you nor her. Might that be a possible source where the relief came from? The potential is only on your mind. Few days ago I already referred a quote in some other post: "I'm sad it's over. But not for what was. But what could have been" That quote fits so well re my last breakup. In hindsight I think: WTF? 🤣 Either it works or it doesn't, but hoping for the future just keeps me in my own mind prison. Am I not good enough to be happy NOW? What type of club you're at?

I did face many of the questions and thoughts you are asking. Sometimes still do. But less, and they carry less weight. What's life, what am I doing here, who are others, oh shit this is solipsism, all just biological programs, I wished I could go back to not knowing, fuck I'm not functional anymore, this doesn't make sense, should I kill myself, can I even be killed, WTF is death and who can I believe anything...it I can believe anything from anyone at all. Etc etc @Hojo wrote you're doing good, and as strange as it sounds, I think he's right. Sounds like stepwise dissolving your ego structure. Keep going. Find your way of handling it. Time itself will help you to, at least it did for me.

First of all, sorry to hear. Had a breakup last year and no matter the learning and growing etc, it did hurt a lot for me then. Where did you get the idea from that it was "too fast"?

Not really sure about the hunting argument and the comparisons you make here. Depends on your definition of hunting. Life does work in some cases work that way: you set an in intention, a fixed goal, you invest resources, you take action but you have an risk that you still fail to achieve the goal. You catch the fish, you take that picture of that rare bird, or you find that jeans in the second hand market. Or not. You want a ONS you go out, might be successful. Or not. You could add one dimension: that your prey fights your hunt, and that the success of your hunt is on the other hand negative for the prey. Animals don't want to be killed, for instance. But in today's times content is crucial, so we can leave that aside for this discussion. I would go down another route: it's the HOW you do it. Your examples with friends and company work if you set a goal of: maximizing win win. You still go hunting, and you still have your interest, you are just open about it. You're curios to find out if and how you can create a good situation for everyone. "Hey, I want to get to know you, have sex with you, or I want you to buy our product - what does it take for you to be interested in it? How can we find out if we fit together?" "Ok sorry, we don't fit. Glad we found out early" It's still hunting, it's still about getting results. But the question is different. Instead of "I want a ONS tonight" it turns to "I want to know if a ONS happens tonight". Being curious means you want find out what happens, not controlling what happens.

That was entertaining to read. Good luck, and keep in mind to have fun that will make everything easier

@Howtolive My thoughts: It's true that many people with "game" are often as you describe. I have seen it many times I agree with your conclusion It comes at the right time for me, too. Recently had a date and when I'm honest, then I have to say this: "I don’t find think we have a fit for a serious relationship, but I’d still like to have sex with you. Are you in?" And I can see how my desire to have sex with her creates doubts if I should do it, how strategies are created in my mind how to best to do this and still get sex. Makes my laugh about myself😆 I already felt like doing it despite the resistance and your post confirmed this - honesty for my own sake, it will be good to talk openly. You are relatively black and white in your assessment of men and women, and their patterns. I know women that were really fast re having sex, and I know men that need emotional connection. Women are equally hunting in their own way and the strategy - make the men seen, respected, feel good - is also the same, just the methods differ. The inner conflict you describe - I think there's something but it's suppressed. It's a problem IMO that our culture puts so much meaning on having sex with many women. It's so closely tied to male identity and many follow like sheeps. The more conscious I get, the more I see things as energetic exchange. And sex being the plus ultra of energetic exchange between man and woman. Makes sense to keep this interaction as "clean" as possible, without inner conflict. And to ask myself with whom I actually want to do this exchange, and how to do it If you drop some concepts and narratives about men and women, you still end up at the same conclusion This quote is the essence and resonates a lot. Ok you MAYBE don't have as much sex, but the one you'll have is better and you feel better before and afterwards because no inner conflict but peace of mind.

Yes it's really hard to observe families from the outside, see some concerning trends and patterns and then realize that there's not much you can do. One thing is that people get defensive about their identity and kids in general, like you say. Requires IME trust, skill and right timing to influence things in a good way. But also, parents in most cases unconditionally want the best for their kids. If they could do it better, they would do it better, right? And as long as they have love for their kids, they are motivated to change for the good of them. Can't say my family is a role-model family either. Maybe best we can do is doing it differently ourselves and if we manage that, maybe there's a contagious effect on others.

Yeah that's when the "core" programs were established. I recently saw my niece and nephew, and phewww..that was something. Very interesting experience that made me wonder about my childhood. Certain behavior patterns from parents were literally copy-pasted. How to laugh about certain jokes or not to laugh about it, the tone of voice, grammar structure in talking, the whole energy from the child in certain situations. What to get mad about, but also how to express love and so on. Some things are quite noticeable, others are rather subtle. I imagine us humans as an empty hard drive as a kid, and the our surrounding (family, friends, education system, general culture etc) loads all kind of behavior programs on our drive. Only later we can realize it's a program and then change it

That's a pretty accurate description of my experience. The recognition of the previous state and how normal it was - that's is really strange. And for me it correlates with seeing this tension more clearly in others.

Yes, it works for a while but I see what you mean. I know that feeling of reality becoming fluid. Was very strong after meditation retreats. Your other points also resonate. It's like when you learn riding a bike, or in the end like riding it freehand.

Good questions. Wondered about this a lot myself. Maybe good to start small. You probably know if Ikigai? The ten rules are a good start, but it's not the main point I want to make. I once talked to a half-Japanese woman, and she said that in her view, we make it often "too big". All about life purpose, long term etc. She said she uses it is more short-term, something simple like "what gets me out of bed today?" Another idea from a friend. "If I don't know where to start, I start with my body" --> look how you feel and then see what thoughts and desires for actions comes up once you do that. Short: No I don't feel complete on a consistent basis. Because I sometimes have thoughts of lacking something + plus my action, thoughts and feelings are not always aligned, so I sometimes have inner conflict.

Good points. When reading it, I immediately could see scenes in front of my eyes where what you described happened to me or others. The panic when believe structures are questioned for instance. Or the identity stuff. Who am I, if I leave aside all my learned behavior? No wonder Ram Dass talks about becoming "nobody" Really like they last sentence: "The question is the direction of that movement: is it to maintain identity or to understand, anticipate, plan, and so on" IME, that's really the thing. Like directing a flow of water in a river.

+ that women will pay attention to men that look less handsome but have personality. But at least among some of my friends, there is agreement that a great personality also makes less pretty women also substantially more attractive. Are there also very superficial women? Same as men? Yes. Do men have it easier then women? Don't think so. IMO, it's pretty even.