theleelajoker

I asked questions. You literally used "should" in your post. And you evaded every single one of those questions. And I asked these questions because I seriously doubt that you know what you are talking about. Prove me wrong or stop telling people what to do (Here, NOW I told what you should do. You notice the difference?)

+1 for how women send signals. It's subtle, it's indirect, it's body language + the eyes. Yesterday I was having lunch with a pretty friend I like, and she likes me. We talked 1h+ about everything and and no point there was any signal beyond "we have a nice conversation" Another time I started talking to a girl and I thought she liked me, but she was reluctant. A moment later she takes out her phone and I see that she has a screensaver showing her and her boyfriend - a feminine, subtle way to say "no thanks" I thought to myself Once I got more aware of life in general, it's easy to feel if there is at least a bit of interest. Interest doesn't always mean that something will happen...but sometimes it does ; ) + 1 limits of communication with words, telepathy is key Next time it happens, you will connect with your Pokemon, brother!

In a nutshell: agree. Have / had my attraction pattern, too. Women that are great human beings but also give a vibe of "I need to be saved/ I don't love myself enough / I am not enough to be loved". So I subconsciously had the idea of "maybe I am the one that can help change that?" (Short answer: No) As a friend pointed out, it's a family dynamic I copied from my parents. And the friend luckily also pointed out that obviously, nobody can save anyone, you can only save yourself. Knowing the childhood story of my parents it's understandable that they had this kind of dynamics and individual adaptation to their respective family system. Happens. In another post, someone said "you're half your dad and half your mum" - so I guess it's "normal" that we subconsciously copy our parents behavior, it's in our genetic code as soon as we are born + growing up watching them. We can only change what we are aware of... Took my dad long time and three marriages to - more or less - loose that savior pattern, I am optimistic I can do that earlier! Re my mother I don't know it seems a bit more work in progress, but there is movement. There is still time, I'm optimistic she will make a leap as well very soon So, for anyone reading this, my advice is: get to know your (grand-) parents and their story as much and as soon as possible! Might save you a lot of energy and bad experiences. And to go full circle with the OP - it's likely to lead to happier dating

How do you know? Direct experience? Is there only one way to experience? Are you even talking about the same experience as OP? Does same experience even exist? Who are you to define what should or should not be expressed?

What does that mean? What is your definition of enlightenment?

Maybe you can do that easily, or maybe your circle of friends. You would be surprised how often I have seen or heard the opposite. There's a guy that I know, he created the term "fakeship" as strategy to keep women engaged, faking the intention of entering a relationship with them. He simply figured out what signals to give to so that the women believe he's genuinely interested. And he's a not a unique case. Remember another guy that had his own stories. And then this happens once or twice to a woman and then we have the fuck up we seem to have in today's dating world. Needless to say, the guy I'm talking about is a) not happy himself and b) has his own story (trauma) that keeps him from entering deep emotional connections

+ 1 Finding beauty in the non - obvious is a true skill for living a fulfilled life. Women are an obvious topic, but it goes deeper than that. Much deeper. "And if a man who only appreciates the beauty of the most beautiful women, he probably won't be a good longterm partner. And that's because, even the most beautiful women all eventually look like little old ladies." Yeah realizing that is very important IMO. During many dates I feel women checking me out: "Does he REALLY like me? Will he still like me when I am older? Will he go and hunt younger, more attractive women?" This check is valid but it needs balance. At some point, you just need to let go and do it. Because from my perspective this fear can also keep women from truly connecting. It then becomes a game of "instead of taking a risk I rather retreat, stay cold and don't open up for true connection. If I never fully commit, I will never be left for a younger woman, thus avoiding pain" For me it seems it happens typically subconsciously. Fear of not being loved for who I am. What's left is often a lose-lose for both men and women.

One reason it's likely to be "low quality" because individuals try to extrapolate their own experiences and methods towards others. First, everybody is unique. Second, they might have some bias bc of personal agendas or projections ($$$). Third, people have such incredible difficulties to know what's good for them (just look at the state of the world), do they even REALLY know what works and what is good for them? Fourth, think of the "placebo effect" - what is actually true? The "right quality" is most likely to be found inside out, not the other way round. You can take external information, but it should IMO always be personalized to SOME degree.

I think we are more or less aligned with that. I think the intention to communicate this "snapshot instance of beauty" is better in a subjective way. "She was so beautiful I still have her smile in front if my eyes" or "she was pretty, but I only got attracted to her sexually after 10 minutes of talking because [insert reason: funny, smart, empathic, honest, ...] or whatever you made you like her. You talk about how YOU FELT / FEEL about her instead ob objectifying her (or him, goes both ways!). Why? Two reasons: Beauty - or whatever other thing, or person - creates a FEELING for you. You want that feeling. So it's about you, and your feeling, and not her/him. We attribute feelings to other people, but in the end WE CONSTRUCT THEM WITHIN Mindfuck you mentioned, we create our rating. Got nothing to add other that I experienced it myself Especially in 2. THERE IS IMO A HUGE LEARNING FOR EVERYONE (and maybe especially for guys struggling to get to know / attract women): Attraction is not only instantaneous, it' not purely objective, it's a PROCESS as well. Get to know the other person, and give the other person a chance to get to know you. Funny thing that also happened to me was e.g. that in relationships, the things that annoyed me at the beginning were after some time THE VERY THING I started to love about this woman. At the beginning I resisted it, in the end I just looked at her and smiled, feeling a deep inner warmth just observing her being herself, expressing herself

OK wow enjoyed reading that. And resonates very much. @zazenNice metaphor at the end, with the the astronauts in space. So putting these ideas into practice means realizing and living the connection to the cosmic, to everything and everyone? It means not putting any value in achievements, doing but feeling content just being and creating?

I see that language is ultimately 1/0, because that's the function of it. Making differences, labeling, making judgements. So intelligence is NOT in the center of being? How? How you do it?

You have a point. I did appreciate my personal most aesthetic face + body combo, and if I had the choice, I rather have that again in a woman than not. I clearly enjoyed it and still enjoy that. But what I am saying: Why put any rating on it? Just say "I find her beautiful, attractive, whatever" instead of putting a number on her and compare to other humans. There is NOTHING gained by doing that instead of ego, status games (see @joshe posts). And a lot is lost from it IMO.

@vibv OK thx for explanation. So if I get you right, it's about the intellectual process of labeling things, actions, of judging them black /white, 0/1, while not seeing that they are actually two sides of the same coin? Freeing us means then freeing us from the urge to looks for a one sided coin and instead accept the paradoxical nature of life? It yes to the questions above, it's something Alan Watts talks about quite a lot in his talks. If not already familiar with him it might be sth for you

Yeah I guess there are several points to it It's a bit similar to money. We all believe that this piece of paper has this and this value,but it's artificial. So Hollywood and brands tell us what's "hot" and we believe that Even if you have a cultural perspective - agreeing with you on that - it seems we tend to forget that the perspective is not absolute. What's the ideal of beautiful changed over time a lot It doesn't seem healthy the way it's seen now in our culture, does it? Actually seems really fucked up to me given all that manipulative pick up stuff, frustration across both men and woman and unhappy stories about dating and relationship.

@vibvDon't get what you mean with "world" and your explanation for it. What does that distinction mean for you, Maya , world, logic and reason? What you mean "everybody stays in his her one simulation" how does that look practically? As of today, I think there's no one that needs to be freed. Everybody just playing his/ her role. Just my impression who knows maybe I'm right maybe I'm wrong

Changed states of consciousness /awakenings / Kundalini experiences, whatever you might call it, were and are not always easy to handle for me. Sometimes still not easy. Could indeed describe it as loosing ground, because all the believes that gave security and comfort are suddenly gone. Bam, there goes everything you thought about life in an instant. But I got/ get used to it. Key for me was/ is to stay in touch with people and to stay active. Talking, going out, sports, etc. My state changed, so I met others that felt similar, which reduces the feeling of "insane" and makes it "normal". IMO worst thing to do is to retreat from life, best thing is to live as fully as possible. And to trust.

Tears from laughing real hard! 🤣

Yes I think that at times, I have been in this trap myself. Not sure I am completely out of it, tbh. Of course I liked the girls I dated very much, there was alignment in values, communication etc. And I dated women that my friends did not consider as hot, but I found them hot and did not care about others opinion. But I also know that at other times, part of me was generating self value through me having a very hot gf and thus getting status through it from others. I remember this feeling very clearly. It's all a learning process... If you don't get laid for several years, maybe you should start to change your approach towards women. Getting to know women I struggled with when I was younger, now it happens very smoothly. It's really just about being open and interested in them as human beings + listening to what I need right now, being in touch with myself and my body + being authentic and not giving a **** what others think. I'm one those struggling with the maintenance Just the simple idea of rating 7,8,9, 10 and value is so stupid. It's a mindfuck and I don't get how this BS came into western culture. What is the rating mechanism? Looks? Sure, you need sexual attraction, but this only partially based on looks, it's a lot about the connection and subtle things like smell. Is it also material stuff, status? Well, good luck cuddling status. It will surely keep you warm at night. And the big villa feels pretty empty when there is no one that understands you. Is it personality? Then it becomes impossible to rate, because it's subjective and everybody needs different personality as an individual match. OK and even IF you put some rating on personality, it's not a fixed thing. People change, yourself change. Moreover, people are who they are also because the way you relate to them, the way you see them and behave towards according to this.

I appreciate the intention for clarity, but also very much like the personal stuff. It's easier to relate to for me when it's not only meta. Personal stories matter IMO. And with certain meta topics, it's similar for me - can't stop contemplating and need to articulate it as well How is the level of interpretation when you are interacting with other people, animals etc? I say this because if I noticed that when I am truly engaged, present in (inter)action, then the interpretation slows down. You said in a different thread you don't interact much, that might become vicious cycle. Too much thinking earlier in my life, too little interaction, which causes more thinking, etc etc

For me too

What's the best strategy when you exchange the goal of "sleep with high quality women on regular basis" with "being happy, maximizing your personal understanding of love"?

Yeah. So Hi JoshB, nice to meet you Thanks for being here, thanks for interacting

You would be surprised. Did you not realize yet, that "the environment" adapts to what you do and say? Go and prove me wrong

Love the last part. Infinite variables ❤️

I bring the drinks!