theleelajoker

Yeah reflecting on it now, I aim to be as practical as I can be about what one might call spirituality or "enlightenment". So you are awake, now what? What's next? Whatcha gonna do? It's all about action here in this plane of existence, experiencing. There was an old trip report, basically saying "life is about feeling good". You could rephrase that to living a "fulfilled life", knowing eg that all emotions are part of it, embracing sadness instead for only aiming for happiness. Which then transforms sadness into someone desirable, which makes you feel good Transcending material stuff did not give me fulfillment. Going deep into the material world did not do that for me either. So let's do both. Interacting here was much as possible, respecting my physical form while nurturing my connection to...well, I don't know what but whatever "it" is.

What does "awakening" mean for you in practical terms? This might be helpful to get a grip on the your/mine/our "awakening"

I agree in general. Being> concept. But is the idea of God, how you describe him - boredom, immobilized etc - not a concept itself, the very thing you recommend to drop? This would still be No 1, wouldn't it?

Why did God press the play button? For me, it comes down to three possibilities: Choice: You want things to be the way they are. You want to experience everything exactly the way it is. Which, in a funny way,also includes asking why the play button has been pressed at all + not having long term goals as you do now:) There is no other choice A paradoxical "both, 1+2" that is a fuck up for human minds 🤣 Anyone seeing other possibilities?

It's a personal thing. For me, the structure helps tremendously. Other people in the same room help. Teacher to ask help. Sharing and connecting before and afterwards is HUGE for me. It's also the environment. Nature, calmness, peace. Others prefer to do it in their own. Tried it once at home, was not for me. I never paid for any retreat. They are free. You can give Dana if you want, a donation in any form (nobody asks or checks that). Maybe money, or you offer your service. There is always work to do in the centers- gardening, building, cleaning, project management, etc. Or you give nothing. And there is not much luxury, except for the food which is always AMAZING 😍 Meditation centers have reportedly existed 2500 years ago, so then "lonely guy in cave image" is only partially true. Technique basically is breath, awareness, body scan. Over the years I got more experienced and individualized my method a little, but that's basically it.

@Princess Arabia PM

@Artsy PM

You know what you did with the "see,...." post. If it was not to prove a point about achieving sth, why make the post in the first place? You could have stayed silent. You didn't. That's exactly what I mean.. you're not claiming enlightenment, but you tell others how and what they should do re this. U should have stayed silent there (now I did it again, telling others what to do. How does that feel?) You won't like what I wrote. Don't care. Won't engage further I'm done here

Did quite a few Vipassana retreats. It was different every time, crazy intense every time. Gets you out of your mind and into your body. Much better then contemplating IMO because you're not/less thinking. Truly life changing stuff, but also challenging. Can't compare retreats to doing it at home. The structure, the routine of organized retreats is AMAZING. You can be fully focused on your process. One time, there was a guy always sitting in front of me during breakfast, lunch, tea time. On the last day, when we were allowed to talk again, I approached him. He did not recognize me, he did notice I was on the other side of the table for 10 days! That's how focused you can become, that's how deep you can go because everything else is taken care of during retreat. Be careful re Vipassana tradition depending on teacher and respective biases. Reddit has a lot on this for research. Choose wisely

And you used "I" above two times (and "my" once) to communicate your achievement 😘

❤️

I asked questions. You literally used "should" in your post. And you evaded every single one of those questions. And I asked these questions because I seriously doubt that you know what you are talking about. Prove me wrong or stop telling people what to do (Here, NOW I told what you should do. You notice the difference?)

+1 for how women send signals. It's subtle, it's indirect, it's body language + the eyes. Yesterday I was having lunch with a pretty friend I like, and she likes me. We talked 1h+ about everything and and no point there was any signal beyond "we have a nice conversation" Another time I started talking to a girl and I thought she liked me, but she was reluctant. A moment later she takes out her phone and I see that she has a screensaver showing her and her boyfriend - a feminine, subtle way to say "no thanks" I thought to myself Once I got more aware of life in general, it's easy to feel if there is at least a bit of interest. Interest doesn't always mean that something will happen...but sometimes it does ; ) + 1 limits of communication with words, telepathy is key Next time it happens, you will connect with your Pokemon, brother!

In a nutshell: agree. Have / had my attraction pattern, too. Women that are great human beings but also give a vibe of "I need to be saved/ I don't love myself enough / I am not enough to be loved". So I subconsciously had the idea of "maybe I am the one that can help change that?" (Short answer: No) As a friend pointed out, it's a family dynamic I copied from my parents. And the friend luckily also pointed out that obviously, nobody can save anyone, you can only save yourself. Knowing the childhood story of my parents it's understandable that they had this kind of dynamics and individual adaptation to their respective family system. Happens. In another post, someone said "you're half your dad and half your mum" - so I guess it's "normal" that we subconsciously copy our parents behavior, it's in our genetic code as soon as we are born + growing up watching them. We can only change what we are aware of... Took my dad long time and three marriages to - more or less - loose that savior pattern, I am optimistic I can do that earlier! Re my mother I don't know it seems a bit more work in progress, but there is movement. There is still time, I'm optimistic she will make a leap as well very soon So, for anyone reading this, my advice is: get to know your (grand-) parents and their story as much and as soon as possible! Might save you a lot of energy and bad experiences. And to go full circle with the OP - it's likely to lead to happier dating

How do you know? Direct experience? Is there only one way to experience? Are you even talking about the same experience as OP? Does same experience even exist? Who are you to define what should or should not be expressed?

What does that mean? What is your definition of enlightenment?

Maybe you can do that easily, or maybe your circle of friends. You would be surprised how often I have seen or heard the opposite. There's a guy that I know, he created the term "fakeship" as strategy to keep women engaged, faking the intention of entering a relationship with them. He simply figured out what signals to give to so that the women believe he's genuinely interested. And he's a not a unique case. Remember another guy that had his own stories. And then this happens once or twice to a woman and then we have the fuck up we seem to have in today's dating world. Needless to say, the guy I'm talking about is a) not happy himself and b) has his own story (trauma) that keeps him from entering deep emotional connections

+ 1 Finding beauty in the non - obvious is a true skill for living a fulfilled life. Women are an obvious topic, but it goes deeper than that. Much deeper. "And if a man who only appreciates the beauty of the most beautiful women, he probably won't be a good longterm partner. And that's because, even the most beautiful women all eventually look like little old ladies." Yeah realizing that is very important IMO. During many dates I feel women checking me out: "Does he REALLY like me? Will he still like me when I am older? Will he go and hunt younger, more attractive women?" This check is valid but it needs balance. At some point, you just need to let go and do it. Because from my perspective this fear can also keep women from truly connecting. It then becomes a game of "instead of taking a risk I rather retreat, stay cold and don't open up for true connection. If I never fully commit, I will never be left for a younger woman, thus avoiding pain" For me it seems it happens typically subconsciously. Fear of not being loved for who I am. What's left is often a lose-lose for both men and women.

One reason it's likely to be "low quality" because individuals try to extrapolate their own experiences and methods towards others. First, everybody is unique. Second, they might have some bias bc of personal agendas or projections ($$$). Third, people have such incredible difficulties to know what's good for them (just look at the state of the world), do they even REALLY know what works and what is good for them? Fourth, think of the "placebo effect" - what is actually true? The "right quality" is most likely to be found inside out, not the other way round. You can take external information, but it should IMO always be personalized to SOME degree.

I think we are more or less aligned with that. I think the intention to communicate this "snapshot instance of beauty" is better in a subjective way. "She was so beautiful I still have her smile in front if my eyes" or "she was pretty, but I only got attracted to her sexually after 10 minutes of talking because [insert reason: funny, smart, empathic, honest, ...] or whatever you made you like her. You talk about how YOU FELT / FEEL about her instead ob objectifying her (or him, goes both ways!). Why? Two reasons: Beauty - or whatever other thing, or person - creates a FEELING for you. You want that feeling. So it's about you, and your feeling, and not her/him. We attribute feelings to other people, but in the end WE CONSTRUCT THEM WITHIN Mindfuck you mentioned, we create our rating. Got nothing to add other that I experienced it myself Especially in 2. THERE IS IMO A HUGE LEARNING FOR EVERYONE (and maybe especially for guys struggling to get to know / attract women): Attraction is not only instantaneous, it' not purely objective, it's a PROCESS as well. Get to know the other person, and give the other person a chance to get to know you. Funny thing that also happened to me was e.g. that in relationships, the things that annoyed me at the beginning were after some time THE VERY THING I started to love about this woman. At the beginning I resisted it, in the end I just looked at her and smiled, feeling a deep inner warmth just observing her being herself, expressing herself

OK wow enjoyed reading that. And resonates very much. @zazenNice metaphor at the end, with the the astronauts in space. So putting these ideas into practice means realizing and living the connection to the cosmic, to everything and everyone? It means not putting any value in achievements, doing but feeling content just being and creating?

I see that language is ultimately 1/0, because that's the function of it. Making differences, labeling, making judgements. So intelligence is NOT in the center of being? How? How you do it?

You have a point. I did appreciate my personal most aesthetic face + body combo, and if I had the choice, I rather have that again in a woman than not. I clearly enjoyed it and still enjoy that. But what I am saying: Why put any rating on it? Just say "I find her beautiful, attractive, whatever" instead of putting a number on her and compare to other humans. There is NOTHING gained by doing that instead of ego, status games (see @joshe posts). And a lot is lost from it IMO.

@vibv OK thx for explanation. So if I get you right, it's about the intellectual process of labeling things, actions, of judging them black /white, 0/1, while not seeing that they are actually two sides of the same coin? Freeing us means then freeing us from the urge to looks for a one sided coin and instead accept the paradoxical nature of life? It yes to the questions above, it's something Alan Watts talks about quite a lot in his talks. If not already familiar with him it might be sth for you

Yeah I guess there are several points to it It's a bit similar to money. We all believe that this piece of paper has this and this value,but it's artificial. So Hollywood and brands tell us what's "hot" and we believe that Even if you have a cultural perspective - agreeing with you on that - it seems we tend to forget that the perspective is not absolute. What's the ideal of beautiful changed over time a lot It doesn't seem healthy the way it's seen now in our culture, does it? Actually seems really fucked up to me given all that manipulative pick up stuff, frustration across both men and woman and unhappy stories about dating and relationship.