theleelajoker

Good question. Tbh, I don't know. If I had to bet, I would say "rather not" - the one goes hand in hand with the other. I have seen people avoiding intimacy because they want to avoid the pain of losing someone. A quote of a girl was "when I feel that the other might leave, I go myself". At least she was conscious of that - in many other cases I believe to see that people don't even go that far, they never allow that deep intimacy and don't enter deep connections but rather stay distant. And I have seen this kind of behavior many times with men and women. There seems to be a deep desire for connection, but then [ENTER REASON] comes up in the mind and this gives an excuse to avoid potential pain. You know that kind of deep insight into life you have when you take LSD (at least believe to have)? I had this once without LSD during a meditation retreat, I got super high just from meditating. I felt this immense feeling and pain in my chest/heart area, and suddenly a lot of people's behavior became crystal clear to me, like a veil was lifted. I could see how a main motivation of a lot of behavior among humans is to avoid this exact pain of someone leaving you after bonding, avoiding the feeling of rejection. As @bazera said, the break up after a deep connection was really bad for me - but there are also the moments before the break up, where I felt this connection was some of the best times in my life. I don't think abundance mindset really helps, because I had the experience of always meeting a cool new girl after a break up, sometimes even "better" one if you want it like that. With the last gf, I literally told my friends "she's like the best features of my previous ex-gfs combined (looks, sense of humor, character traits etc)". But it still ended, and I still suffered a lot from it. Before my last gf, I was happy and content in life. Will be at this stage when I meet the next one. She will be great, probably even "better" than my last. I will be careful not to get attached, but she will be so great and the connection will be so good that it will happen anyway. Then it will end, because everything ends at some point.

Did not intend to point out sth that you did not address. Was just saying that I agree with your point re self-help platitudes and that this - IME - includes all kind of situations where people are desperate or at a certain low point re mood and attitude towards sth, just did not want to limit it to suicidal thoughts. IME it's better to recognize and validate that people feel that way instead of "oh yeah that will pass, you will grow etc etc". Better to go into that feeling as deep as possible, then it can easier be let go.

Yes some men are just like that. I know few of them. But that's not what he's saying. He's indicating why do exactly THESE KIND OF MEN appear repeatably in one's life? I can see something of a theme in certain periods of my life, what kind of women am I attracted to and vice versa. At some point it felt like a karmic loop and the common denominator was me Would not go so far as calling it "character flaw" it's just being human everybody has some stuff to deal with.

I like this answer. Yes yes pure awareness, but I am experiencing myself much more than that. "Every aspect of reality is you in the end so you might as well embrace it." Simple guideline, but not always easy to execute

@Yimpa Damn, that's the one? Respect that you found it.

@Schizophonia I think you have in general some interesting perspectives, observations and points. Sometimes really enjoy reading your perspective here in this forum. Also learning from it and/or being entertained. I also think a different use of some of your time outside this forum will be beneficial for you (just making assumptions ). Something physical, that gets you out of your mind. Something social, where you interact with people of your approx age. Yes yes you're french and so on, you don't like being told what to do etc etc.....just saying

There is a song I like. Lyrics are sth like "you arrive once you stop running"

Short: no. Don't have social media and I have great results with women in real life. Mostly bars, but also every other kind of events, clubs, parties etc. , even in subway, train etc. I have a dating app and had quite a few dates through it, but recently nothing happened there it was all IRL. ("great results" = not comparing it to anyone, not saying it's a huge number, I am simply content with how many women I get to know and get involved with)

DEFINITELY overlooked IMO. Yeah can't really say I "use" them, it's rather just happening...or maybe dreams characters are using my "real" life to solve their stuff lol The more I think about it, the more sense the last idea makes Yeah, it is fucking exhausting at times. I guess intuitively, you are doing the "right" thing. Will likely be non-linear, up and down, one step forward, two steps back and vice versa. But it sounds like a good path you're on. Same time, may suggest a little tweak? Maybe just 5% of time, ask yourself "How can I do something good for me? How can I make this a fun day? A happy day? Or even 1h, or 5min of fun and happy?" If that does not work, maybe only "how can I make the whole process 1% lighter, more fun for me?" Speaking of experience, this little tweak can have very nice impact. It does not mean you don't confront what's there, you still do, you still process and learn from it, it just means you do it slightly different. My pleasure. Happy there is some value for you

@bazera So crazy you mention dreams! Seriously, this morning I woke up and the second night in a row, I had an intense dream where I processes significant life events from recent weeks and months. I wrote a message to a friend joking about it, telling her that I will send a wish-list to my subconscious, telling it that now I would like to have topic X and topic Y in the next two dreams so I can finally process that! I take it as a good sign with the dreams, because I can feel that some stuff got resolved. Literally, the storyline in one of those two dreams was that I had to fight for my right to do a certain action (this action in the dream actually has been a hurdle for me in recent months in real life), and at the end of the dream I got the official allowance to finally go for this action from a dream character. Suddenly all this "inner parts" and "inner family systems" stuff I heard of kind of makes sense, even if I never engaged with it in any way before. Literally, one part of my subconscious gave another part of my subconscious within my dream the formal allowance to do something, isn't that crazy? LOL My take is that it has a lot do to with the stuff we talked about in previous posts. Freeing up and feeling emotions, getting ourselves into a safe space mentally, reducing resistance to what is. Seems the chain of events is like that : Before: Holding back, tensions, (subconscious) suppression --> Then: Letting go & acceptance, moving body etc. --> No more resistance --> subconscious says "ah ok it's safe now to feel & experience" --> Feeling emotions, experiencing --> "Experience has been felt, event has been completed" -->" I can stop with protecting behavior" --> Frees space for new actions, new behavior, new emotions --> more freedom And if it's any help, before those two dreams I woke up many times soaked in sweat, with no "resolution" like in the last two dreams. Very strange period in my life, all this experiences are new territory for me..

Well...there is a thing about repeating mistakes, and there is a thing re being over-correcting with past experiences Few years ago I had a gf, and it was difficult with her because I learned that she almost never took responsibility. Did not work out. So I paid attention with the next girl. She was really taking responsibility for her actions, and I respected that a lot. Problem: Over time I realized she took TOO MUCH responsibility, she felt guilty when I did not see any reason for her to do so (told her that, but it did not help). Also some years ago, I had a gf where she felt uncomfortable introducing me to her family even as some time passed. She had trouble committing. The gf that followed after her introduced me to friends and family relatively early (approx 6 months) and proactively, without me even mentioning anything like that. How it ended: With the first gf the break-up was more from my side, the second one left me very sudden and the break up was completely one-sided - all the introduction and commitment meant nothing in the end LOL Moral of these stories: First, careful what you wish for Second, it makes me laugh about myself and my love life Yeah IME it can be tricky. What I mean is: to be too much on the "I will grow from it big opportunity etc" track --> creating a story without feeling the emotions, pain. It's then potentially intellectualizing the situation too much. It might turn into "thinking your feelings vs. feeling them" to be too much on the "this sucks, pain and suffering" track --> too overwhelmed for too long by emotions, not accepting, having resistance instead of moving on when time is right No idea how (or even if) the balance can be found. Good luck!

Yeah about 3 months passed before I fully went into this, 4 days might be a bit early...but maybe also exactly what you need, who knows? But it's definitely hurtful that's for sure, 4 days after her presence, her smell etc is likely still very present. It's likely to be a bit up and down too IME. Sometimes felt like I'm over it and then...ah not 100% yet. It's interesting to observe how the percentage of my thoughts going to her steadily decreased that's a good indicator IMO. Yes that applies to most. Luckily there are exceptions, but those people are typically for some private or professional reason trained in having perspective beyond personal bias. One person I talked to recently said "well, if you would ask X, he would say that, if you ask Y, she would say this, and now if you ask me, I am a like that and thus I say it's this". It's good to be aware of the biases you mention. You can also use it to your advantage, so if I need more XYZ energy I know which friend is living a lot like this. Do I need motivation? Assertiveness? Understanding? Acceptance? Calmness? Inspiration to become active?

Yes. Crazy, isn't it? And how to deal with oneself! Nutrition, emotions, acceptance, avoiding excessive ruminating, etc In my country there are now more and more private initiatives, NPOs that try to shift that a bit towards "more healthy / pragmatic education"

Yes, just sitting and being there. I agree, that's a great thing I often avoided. With my ex, when I found the strength I also confronted the sadness, went to meaningful places (first date, first kiss) or looked at pictures /videos of her/us knowing that I likely would cry. Can also safely be done. There are infinite variations of meditation, so it's good you ask. The meditation I do is Anapana and Vipassana. Anapana is basically just focusing on one spot - I follow Goenka, so it's the nostrils / area below the nostrils - and feeling the breath without judgement, natural breath without changing it. The effect is that I am (ideally) still, calm and simply open to feel. When I open up to feeling, I typically notice that the tension in my jaw (my best indicator for stress/suppressed stuff) decreases. I feel my whole nervous system react in some way. It's just letting things happening, observing. It's basically training myself to feel respectively not to hold back and suppress. It works, but it's gradual for me and not a "on/off switch". Vipassana is then more or less just moving attention through the body and also observing it. There are some details in the instructions on how to do it, better to learn it from a teacher in a course than me writing it here. It's not magic, IMO just good to have someone experienced with you when you start doing it. Re therapist: Just starting the process. TBH, there is also some stuff I did not tell ANYONE so far and I actually am quite happy to have someone trained who I can finally express. I just realize, I am actually looking forward to for once in my life tell someone EVERYTHING Some people know this, others know that from my past, family history, present events, but nobody knows all. I guess keeping things inside just increases tensions and prevents release. Been paying attention not to overshare with friends and family, people can only handle as much re experiences and emotions of others as they opened up to their own.

There is a discussion here with video. For me, what worked: True moments of authenticity and vulnerability with other people (friends, family, gf or therapist) Breath work, yes Meditation Dancing Sports (especially Yoga, Pilates for me) Psychedelics Fasting Stretching (yin yoga!) Cuddling Singing Massage (once gave a non-sexual, but sensitive massage to my FWB..she started crying out of the blue) Sex (not the normal stuff, requires some connection and way of doing it I can't explain) Screaming and shouting (not at somebody, in the forest for example..or use your pillow) The order is random except the first point. As long as I wear a mask in front of ALL other people, it can't be released IME. Need to release with SOMEONE, otherwise you are always tense and holding back. It's also the hardest... The bullet above: It's a system, everything is interconnected. It's not ONE thing only that helps, and not ONE or same thing for the another person. I laughed and I cried in many situations...both are way the that relax and calm down the nervous system. I also wonder if I am bullshitting myself or if it's constructive. All I can say is that I did not express in the past and seeing where it got me...so I am ready to try something new

Can't say for exactly the topic suicide, but what resonates is the "You can't BS them .these melodramas and self-help platitudes won't work on them" Something sucks? yeah, it sucks. Let's recognize this, and then we can move on.

@Spiral Wizard All in all, interesting thread thanks Yes during one Vipassana I focused too hard on my physical sensations and it was neither a good experience nor productive long term. But it's also easy to (subconsciously) ignore, really tricky balance. Yeah that's something I notice again and again and again...with me others

Becoming miserable, feeling the emotions, becoming desperate is good and IMO nexessary. FOR A WHILE. Not staying in them is the key IME. “Unexpressed emotions will never die. They are buried alive and will come forth later in uglier ways.” ― Sigmund Freud Is the quote "true" or not? My experience with past emotions and maybe the thing you mentioned with your dad seems to indicate there is sth to it

re the your dad and ex: yeah interesting that there is parallel experience with you as well. Glad you could access that grief, women can be really good re putting us men in touch with emotions that have been hidden or stuck Re the trust: yeah, for me last time it was different because she was open and honest (or at least I have the impression she was). In your case, it's clearly different. Which is hard but also makes it easier to deal with Re "it was what it was": Yes One friend once said something funny when I told him about a break-up in the past. He said, "OK, next one"

Yeah so I didn't come across a magic formula how to deal with break ups. Unfortunately. Time has been my best ally. Sounds a cliché but it's true. If you can cry, do it. I had one break up that was so sudden and emotional for me (she broke up seemingly out of the blue) that almost every time I stumbled across a picture or video of her on my phone or in my flat, I got tears in my eyes, had the impulse to cry. Helped tremendously do do it. Also sometimes felt that this sadness was more than just this breakup, so that's the potentially bonus you even may can get some stuff (suppressed emotions from past?) out of your system. What I cannot recommend it to think about scenarios where she might change her mind again, or how you might win her back.That truly distracted me from feeling the and accepting what it. Friends, sports, be nice to yourself. Don't blame yourself more then her. Ok maybe you were insecure about XYZ, but a "good" GF potentially also just accepts this right? Meeting other women from time to time was good after breakup. Some connections, some intimacy, some other thoughts and topics. I was open towards them that it's kind of a rebound so it felt fair for me I didn't pretend anything just to get to do something. Don't put too much pressure on yourself to reset your whole life, things happen more gradual IME. Other than that: really sucks, really hurts, break ups are just hard

In Freudian terms, you actually complimented him big time

He's polite, not ghosting you. But he does not feel like meeting you again, he should also say it at some point that would be respectful. It's not about you, happens. I know quite a few friends that very often only have sex with a woman once. Infinite potential reasons why, the "novelty" stuff being the most common I have seen and experienced. I meet women I wanted to see again - they did not, no matter how great the evening/night was. There were women that wanted to see me again, and I did not want to no matter how cool she / our time together was. Happens. Don't take it personally. At some point, interests will align. Good luck.

It's funny cause it's true 🤣 Nah, don't ruin the party! We need some outsiders, some bad and wrong people, some fake ones so that we can be the good, the true ones!

Grabbing popcorn 🥸🍿....

I don't feel that social expectation you describe